What the hell is up?

[Buchec18]

Okay... I know some of you may have other opinions, but this has become apparent to me. I love Buzz as a coach and think that what he has done is great. But just looking at recent years, there have been a lot of transfers and kids leaving the program.

With the latest being Reggie Smith, that just adds to the list. Some of you may say these kids dont have 'talent' or are not disciplined enough for Marquette's program, which may be true... but I think there is something else happening that we do not know about.

Mbao, Hazel, Mbakwe, Smith, Maymon and I'm sure there's others on the list that you guys can add that I'm forgetting.

[TallTitan34]

Hazel and Mbawke were Crean recruits.  Hazel had an incident which sent him packing.

[Clam Crowder]

Mbakwe and Hazel can't be put on Buzz. That was becuz Crean left...Mbao, we all saw him on the floor. Did he look like a stud in the making? Maymon thinks he's the next Lebron. I don't think anythings up. I think that the players we have our just fine. They commit to the program, and if they lack the discipline to stay committed when adversity is introduced then they aren't cut for Marquette academically or athletically.

[MikeyT42]

I would much rather have a roster with competitors versus 7-8 guys who HAVE to play minutes because they are the only quality guys we have on a roster.

Some guys work for minutes, other want them handed to them

[🏀]

Mbakwe and Hazel can't be put on Buzz. That was becuz Crean left...Mbao, we all saw him on the floor. Did he look like a stud in the making? Maymon thinks he's the next Lebron. I don't think anythings up. I think that the players we have our just fine. They commit to the program, and if they lack the discipline to stay committed when adversity is introduced then they aren't cut for Marquette academically or athletically.

Tim Maymon thinks his son is the next Lebron, I don't think Maymon thinks that.

[Marquette84]

Hazel and Mbawke were Crean recruits.  Hazel had an incident which sent him packing.

The incident with Hazel would have been forgiven if his last name were Hayward. 

Crean also recruited a number of players who did not leave: Burke, Cubillan, Acker, Hayward, Matthews, McNeal, and James.

Let's face two basic facts:
1.  All 10 returning players--including the three that left--knew Buzz as an MU assistant coach.
2.  All  10 returning players had to make the same decision: "Do I want to play for Buzz, or do I want to sit out a year and take a chance somewhere else?" 

While they all may have initially come to MU to play for Crean, that was no longer an option for any of them.  It might be convenient to blame Crean for those who left, but the choice was the same for all 10: stay and play for Buzz, or transfer. 

Buzz deserves equal blame and credit for convincing 7 to stay and failing on 3 others.

[OhioGoldenEagle]

The incident with Hazel would have been forgiven if his last name were Hayward. 

Crean also recruited a number of players who did not leave: Burke, Cubillan, Acker, Hayward, Matthews, McNeal, and James.

Let's face two basic facts:
1.  All 10 returning players--including the three that left--knew Buzz as an MU assistant coach.
2.  All  10 returning players had to make the same decision: "Do I want to play for Buzz, or do I want to sit out a year and take a chance somewhere else?" 

While they all may have initially come to MU to play for Crean, that was no longer an option for any of them.  It might be convenient to blame Crean for those who left, but the choice was the same for all 10: stay and play for Buzz, or transfer. 

Buzz deserves equal blame and credit for convincing 7 to stay and failing on 3 others.

You leave out one little factoid regarding that scenario.  Those that stayed were upperclassmen, ie. it didn't make sense to sit out a year to play a year (or two).  Those that left were underclassmen or had just arrived at MU and still had their whole collegiate career ahead of them.  Most recruits choose a school based on the HEAD COACH, not assistants, so it only made sense for the newbees to leave.

[Goose]

I hope I am 100% wrong on this but I am afraid it might be how Buzz recruits. Is he promising kids something in their living room that he cannot deliver? When Buzz was hired I was not in favor of the hire because he was not on any other school's short or long list to be hired. It almost seems to be hard to believe you can go from unemployed to back to back top shelf recruiting seasons.

Again, not trying to stir the pot. Been worried that too many guys were interested or signed with an unproven coach. Not many schools like MU lose a coach of Crean's level and then go out and improve on the recruiting. Hope my fears are incorrect.

[ChicosBailBonds]

You leave out one little factoid regarding that scenario.  Those that stayed were upperclassmen, ie. it didn't make sense to sit out a year to play a year (or two). 

That's a good point.  However, I'd also add that Mbakwe was going to stay and didn't leave until a few days before school started.  Buzz claimed he was "shocked" that he left...he clearly thought Mbakwe was going to play for him.

[mugrad99]

I hope I am 100% wrong on this but I am afraid it might be how Buzz recruits. Is he promising kids something in their living room that he cannot deliver? When Buzz was hired I was not in favor of the hire because he was not on any other school's short or long list to be hired. It almost seems to be hard to believe you can go from unemployed to back to back top shelf recruiting seasons.

Again, not trying to stir the pot. Been worried that too many guys were interested or signed with an unproven coach. Not many schools like MU lose a coach of Crean's level and then go out and improve on the recruiting. Hope my fears are incorrect.

Posted this in another thread

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1j9f2wr7q1g

[lab_warrior]

An 18 year old basketball player changed his mind about attending and playing basketball for our university.  That's what is up.  Calm down already.

[Earl Tatum]

I Think Reggie Smith is an average player, he can't shoot, but is fast, don't know much about his defense. I'll put my money Derrick Wilson. Boy, I still wish Mbakwe was at Marquette. Sounds like Cadougan was overhyped also. Hope not. Why are we having trouble even getting Illinois kids to come to Marquette? Are they stupid? Another J. P. Gavinski is E Will. Hope he gets it against big time opponents. Come on E-Will and Jonsey.

[Warrior1969]

For all of those assuming buzz promised Reggie more playing time...why exactly would he do this?  Seriously, you think he promised reggie Smith 25 min a game, knowing who was ahead of him?  Come on, the Duke's of the world were not beating down Reggie's door.  He is simply not even close to the level player you would even think about promising anything like that.  In Marquette Revealed reggie said Buzz was the only coach who was straight with him and DID NOT promise anything. 

[Earl Tatum]

WARRIOR----well put.

[mviale]

I Think Reggie Smith is an average player, he can't shoot, but is fast, don't know much about his defense. I'll put my money Derrick Wilson. Boy, I still wish Mbakwe was at Marquette. Sounds like Cadougan was overhyped also. Hope not. Why are we having trouble even getting Illinois kids to come to Marquette? Are they stupid? Another J. P. Gavinski is E Will. Hope he gets it against big time opponents. Come on E-Will and Jonsey.

I agree for the most part, but still think Junior will be a good one.  I am concerned that Smith could bad mouth the program in chicago.  ie Newbill in Philly. Depaul is probably going to start  getting recruits.  I hope this kid doesnt end up in the big ten.

[Dr. Blackheart]

I am concerned that Smith could bad mouth the program in chicago.  ie Newbill in Philly. Depaul is probably going to start  getting recruits.  I hope this kid doesnt end up in the big ten.

When was the last time MU did not have a player from IL on the roster? 

[TallTitan34]

When was the last time MU did not have a player from IL on the roster? 

2009-2010: Maurice Acker
2005-2009: Jerel McNeal
2001-2005: Todd Townsend
1997-2001: Brian Wardle
1991-1996: Amal McCaskill
1987-1991: Mark Anglavar
1984-1986: Walter Downing
1980-1983: Doc Rivers
1976-1979: Robert Byrd
1974-1975: Bo Ellis

Too lazy to go back any further...

[GGGG]

I agree for the most part, but still think Junior will be a good one.  I am concerned that Smith could bad mouth the program in chicago.  ie Newbill in Philly. Depaul is probably going to start  getting recruits.  I hope this kid doesnt end up in the big ten.

The thought that this could hurt us with Chicago, and Mac Irvin kids, has crossed my mind.

[willie warrior]

For all of those assuming buzz promised Reggie more playing time...why exactly would he do this?  Seriously, you think he promised reggie Smith 25 min a game, knowing who was ahead of him?  Come on, the Duke's of the world were not beating down Reggie's door.  He is simply not even close to the level player you would even think about promising anything like that.  In Marquette Revealed reggie said Buzz was the only coach who was straight with him and DID NOT promise anything. 

Why exactly was Buzz sarting the guy?

[Dr. Blackheart]

2009-2010: Maurice Acker
2005-2009: Jerel McNeal
2001-2005: Todd Townsend
1997-2001: Brian Wardle
1991-1996: Amal McCaskill
1987-1991: Mark Anglavar
1984-1986: Walter Downing
1980-1983: Doc Rivers
1976-1979: Robert Byrd
1974-1975: Bo Ellis

Too lazy to go back any further...

72-74:  Marcus Washington
71 (& 72):  Bob Lackey

And the answer is:  1970 NIT Champs:  IIRC no one, although Guy Lam was from Arlington Heights but attended HS at Brookfield East.  So it has been at least 40 years. 

[NersEllenson]

Why exactly was Buzz sarting the guy?

Maybe because he was the best on ball defender we had at the Point position?  Maybe because he was the quickest guy on the team?  Maybe because he wanted to get him game experience.  Maybe for once you could stop being a jag?

Here..for about the 10th post today..watch this video...now go try to tell me how you can think for a minute Reggie was promised tons of PT??

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1j9f2wr7q1g

You sir, are "entitled to your opinion". (Mod edit: don't personally attack the poster, attack the post)

[Lennys Tap]

The incident with Hazel would have been forgiven if his last name were Hayward. 

Crean also recruited a number of players who did not leave: Burke, Cubillan, Acker, Hayward, Matthews, McNeal, and James.

Let's face two basic facts:
1.  All 10 returning players--including the three that left--knew Buzz as an MU assistant coach.
2.  All  10 returning players had to make the same decision: "Do I want to play for Buzz, or do I want to sit out a year and take a chance somewhere else?" 

While they all may have initially come to MU to play for Crean, that was no longer an option for any of them.  It might be convenient to blame Crean for those who left, but the choice was the same for all 10: stay and play for Buzz, or transfer. 

Buzz deserves equal blame and credit for convincing 7 to stay and failing on 3 others.

How many of the guys left at Indiana when Crean arrived stayed? Zero, including one guy who got to know him well enough to throw a plant at him.

[cheebs09]

With regards to Mbakwe, I thought the common perception was that he wanted out and only stayed because Buzz got the job, but then he ended up leaving anyways. I thought if Crean stayed he would have been gone. Maybe most of that was guessing.

[Marquette84]

You leave out one little factoid regarding that scenario.  Those that stayed were upperclassmen, ie. it didn't make sense to sit out a year to play a year (or two).  Those that left were underclassmen or had just arrived at MU and still had their whole collegiate career ahead of them.  Most recruits choose a school based on the HEAD COACH, not assistants, so it only made sense for the newbees to leave.

So you're saying that Buzz really didn't convince anyone to stay?  They only stayed because "it didn't make sense" for upperclassmen to transfer?

I at least gave Buzz credit for convincing 7 of 10 players to stay.  You seem to be saying that he doesn't even deserve that credit.

And since it "only made sense for the newbees to leave", how do you explain that all four similar newbees recruited by Deane (Nnamaka, Henry, Harris and Diggs) stayed with their new coach?

Or that four of five newbees recruited by O'Neill (Abraham, Crawford, Joseph, Littles, Pieper) stayed for their new coach?

I think people are overplaying the excuse that players transfer following a coaching change.  It doesn't have to happen.

[ChicosBailBonds]

How many of the guys left at Indiana when Crean arrived stayed? Zero, including one guy who got to know him well enough to throw a plant at him.

Pesky Detail Alert.....

read the comments of the players and parents of IU players in that situation when they said it didn't matter who the coach was, they were leaving because of likely NCAA probation coming (which ended up not coming, but they weren't aware of that at the time).  The articles have been provided here multiple times for reference...feel free to read them and garner all the facts.

This ends the Pesky Detail Alert