Questions about Vander Blue

[El Duderino]

I don't watch or pay close attention to high school ball here in Wisconsin at all. That said, i obviously had heard a ton about Vander while he was in high school and that he was a big time recruit.

My assumption about him though when he chose Marquette was more that he was a dynamic offensive talent. Then he played for the US and there were ravings about his defense which i found to be a fabulous thing to combine with his offensive talents.

Watching him so far in games, i've been very surprised to see a top 25-50 recruit who as a freshman is very advanced defensively, but looks pretty lost offensively and with a poor perimeter jumper.

So for those that saw Vander play in high school and/or that just followed his high school career close, what was he like offensively in high school? Are you surprised by how ragged he looks on the offensive end? Think it's more just freshman nerves or is Blue a kid that really needs a lot of work offensively?

[warriors1991]

I've already posted twice in other threads: something looks mechanically incorrect with Vander's jumper. He is double hitching and pushing the ball, almost like it's coming of the heel of his palm. Whatever it is, it looks bad and very unreliable. Not the shot I remember him having in HS.

[El Duderino]

something looks mechanically incorrect with Vander's jumper. He is double hitching and pushing the ball, almost like it's coming of the heel of his palm.

I thought the same thing, it's very funky looking shooting mechanics and sometimes he misses really badly. That's why i wondered if he was a good jump shooter in high school? Also wondered if he mainly scored points simply via being such a superior athlete to other high school kids, but overall his offensive game wasn't very refined?

There was some talk of Vander playing a bit of PG for us this year, but he seems kinda unsure of himself when trying to penetrate and thus gets caught with nowhere to go after trying to drive and picking up his dribble.

BTW, i'm not trying to bash the kid at all. He looks to be playing very hard, he plays tough defense, and doesn't try to force shots like some big time recruits do. I'm simply curious as to what his offensive game was like in high school.

[Markusquette]

I thought the same thing, it's very funky looking shooting mechanics and sometimes he misses really badly. That's why i wondered if he was a good jump shooter in high school? Also wondered if he mainly scored points simply via being such a superior athlete to other high school kids, but overall his offensive game wasn't very refined?

There was some talk of Vander playing a bit of PG for us this year, but he seems kinda unsure of himself when trying to penetrate and thus gets caught with nowhere to go after trying to drive and picking up his dribble.

BTW, i'm not trying to bash the kid at all. He looks to be playing very hard, he plays tough defense, and doesn't try to force shots like some big time recruits do. I'm simply curious as to what his offensive game was like in high school.

Agreed.  I'm more concerned with his D coming in anyway, because he has tons of time to polish his offensive game.  Impressed with his D and hustle so far.

[warriors1991]

Yeah, I really like Vander a lot and he already has  great instincts on defense that will serve him well. He will no doubt be a 'lock-down defender' for us over the coming years.

According to jsonline, he shot 30% 3pt and 65% FT's as a senior last year. Not the greatest but decent. I watched him play a few times in HS and just don't remember his shot looking so 'ugly.'

[GGGG]

Vander was a slasher in high school.  He could beat anyone off the dribble and got to the rim a lot.  His jump shot has never been great, but I think he might be having trouble adjusting to the speed and height that comes with the college game.  I am pleasently surprised how advanced his is defensively however and I have no doubt that his jumper will come eventually.

[willie warrior]

He is not playing Wisc. HS ball anymore. He is in the big time. His shooting is hurting the team. He does play D, but needs to make shots.

No way he should start over Crowder----Absolutely no way.

Buzz needs to re-evaluate his thinking, but from what I have seen, he will continue to start Blue and Bucyks, even though Crowder and Cadougan should be the men. Both are now coming in within the first 4 minutes, so start them.

[Skatastrophy]

Vander was a slasher in high school.  He could beat anyone off the dribble and got to the rim a lot.  His jump shot has never been great, but I think he might be having trouble adjusting to the speed and height that comes with the college game.  I am pleasently surprised how advanced his is defensively however and I have no doubt that his jumper will come eventually.

Vander drove against the 'Zags last night like I'd never seen before.  He turned on the quickness very suddenly to where it looked like guys were standing still around him.  I thought only Reggie Smith had an impressive 2nd gear on our team this year.

I'm pumped to watch Vander continue progressing throughout the season

[BCHoopster]

The college game is set-up to shot threes, MU was so good last year was they had 4 guys who could
do that.  Right now Vander can not hit the side of the barn, which hurts this team big time.  Buzz states
early season they work hard on fundamentals on the D end.  They better put a little time in on shooting.
Hopefully, they can get that fixed before the BE season starts.  If I played MU, I would zone them all the
time.  Not sure how much time they spent on playing against a zone, but dribble driving a zone is not how
to beat it, quick passes beats a zone. 4 out and 1 in does not either.  Also, all the guards look tentative
on the offense end, they have to be quicker on what they want to do and stop thinking.  DJO has to be
more offensive, he passed up way to many shots the last 2 days.  Buycks is not a point guard.  Both nights
when they were making a run, he made mistakes.

[john_cocktoasten]

He looks lost on the offensive end and doesn't look like a 5 star recruit the last couple of games. I understand that this was his 6th game as a college player but the other 5 star recruits Irvin and Brandon Knight sure look like they've made the adjustments.  As for Blue's jumper, he form needs a lot of work because he's turning his body and well as pushing the ball.

[GGGG]

Vander was ranked significantly lower than Knight and Irving.  If you had those expectations for him immediately, you are going to be disappointed.

[willie warrior]

Vander was ranked significantly lower than Knight and Irving.  If you had those expectations for him immediately, you are going to be disappointed.

Then why is he starting?

[GGGG]

Then why is he starting?

Defense.  He is playing very good defense right now.

[mu-rara]

The only way a freshman gets the minutes Vander has is playing defense.  If he didn't do that, we wouldn't know he struggles with his shot.  He was never a shooter, he was a slasher.  His shot will come.  He is doing what Buzz wants....getting to the hoop when it's there and playing defense. 

[mu-rara]

Then why is he starting?

Why are you posting?  Your basketball knowledge is very limited.

[willie warrior]

Why are you posting?  Your basketball knowledge is very limited.

that's right pal. If you cannot argue the facts, start the name calling!

[Skatastrophy]

that's right pal. If you cannot argue the facts, start the name calling!

It's not name-calling when it's stating a fact.

[brewcity77]

It's not name-calling when it's stating a fact.

It's also not name-calling when he didn't call you a name. "Your basketball knowledge is very limited"? There's no name-calling there, just a statement.

[Skatastrophy]

It's also not name-calling when he didn't call you a name. "Your basketball knowledge is very limited"? There's no name-calling there, just a statement.

Stop calling me names.

[mu-rara]

that's right pal. If you cannot argue the facts, start the name calling!

Alright..I'll call you a name....you're a twelve year old.

[brewcity77]

Stop calling me names.

[willie warrior]

Alright..I'll call you a name....you're a twelve year old.

I see how that works. When a question is asked, the response is that a person's basketball knowledge is limited. That is an opinion--not a fact. What basketball IQ evaluation are you using to determine that "fact"? Yout own opinion!

Opinions are like butts--everybody has one, as you have just expressed.

[wildbill sb]

Alright..I'll call you a name....you're a twelve year old.

"Did too!"

"Did not!"

"Did too!"

"STOP IT, RIGHT NOW.  BOTH OF YOU!

"Did not."

[AZWarrior]

Vander's shooting form is lacking.  He's obviously a great athlete, though.  What's the board's expectation on him improving his effectiveness from outside with proper coaching?

[mu-rara]

Vander's shooting form is lacking.  He's obviously a great athlete, though.  What's the board's expectation on him improving his effectiveness from outside with proper coaching?

I have high expectation that he will get better.  Buzz says he wants to get better, and will do what is needed.