Insight into how Recruiting Works..Nowadays..

[NersEllenson]

Some chatter recently on the success of recruiting under Tom Crean at Indiana lately.  This article illustrates just what is going on..it is borderline sleazy...but...apparently within the rules..but..ahem..it does make me squirm:

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/recruiting/basketball/mens/news/story?id=5750525

From the article:

The Hoosiers ties with Indiana Elite run in the family. Adams is the coach of the squad and his son Drew is a former Elite coach and current video coordinator under Crean. Mike Barnett is on the board of directors for Indiana Elite and his son Kory is a walk-on forward for the Hoosiers. Remember that Bloomington Red team that fed Knight's IU program? Well, one of the coaches was Criss Beyers who is a board member for the Indiana Elite squad. Bob Pryor, the former head coach of Bloomington Red, skippers one of Indiana Elite's younger teams.

[dw3dw3dw3]

Over/under on posts pertaining to this topic or offshoots of it? 85 feels about right. In the down days of summer I would venture about 130.

I'm squirming too.

[GOO]

I'm missing the problem, I guess. 

This isn't like Bo at Wisconsin having his son and a Wisconsn coach start and coach an AAU team?  That seems sleezy. 

At Indiana it seems like there are connections, but a little more distant and people involved with the AAU program having sons walking on.  I don't see the problem, I guess. 

[brewcity77]

As uncomfortably close as those ties seem, I'll admit I'd be pretty pleased if suddenly we got an influx of Wisconsin Playground Warriors players in the next couple years like Nolan, Tokoto, and Koenig (all still listed on the WPW roster). I'd be curious to see how many other high-majors have similar ties. Just curious if Indiana is an exception, or if these types of relations are becoming the rule.

[dw3dw3dw3]

The "sleazy" part is this is pretty much the same thing as hiring an AAU coach to get a player, worse if you factor that the pipeline still exists to players. Many have squirmed about that practice or the thought of Buzz doing it. Family money is family money, if a son gets it, there is nothing to prevent the dad from using it (unless its in your agenda to bring out tax codes for gifts within the family). My personal opinion is I don't really care... I would love to get a connection like that to the Irvin family, but I'm a part of the just win baby crowd (bend but don't break the rules).  I just want to see how people would defend these actions who have been opposed to similar actions in the past.

[NersEllenson]

I believe this type of thing is becoming more of a trend, but as the article states..IU is taking it to a new level, as far as % of their kids coming from 1 AAU program.  Where it gets a little sleazy is when you hire the son of the coach of said AAU team to be your "video coordinator," and then offer a walk on position to one of the AAU teams Board of Directors sons.

So, not sure if I'd call it great recruiting per se...but..you have an AAU program that really wants kids to stay in Indiana..and with IU being the premier name in Indiana basketball over time..this AAU team wants to steer its best players to beloved IU (instead of perhaps Purdue or Butler.)

[martyconlonontherun]

I know there is nothing wrong with it, but the Summer League program was essentially a MU program not run by MU. From the outside that looks wrong to me. There is so much grey area in college basketball that its hard to throw stones.

[ChicosBailBonds]

They aren't taking it to a new level other than getting more guys that want to play for IU.  The Elite program has been around a long time, the problem was that kids didn't want to stay home, now they do.  This is just another reason why you take a job like that, because you have a feeder system into the big state school.

And to answer another poster's question, yes, many of the top schools have it.  Michigan State, UCLA, Duke, etc, etc.  That's what they get for being top schools.  These feeder programs basically say if you play for them, you have a great shot to play for one of the big boys.  That's the lure and that's the benefit of coaching at one of the bluebloods of college hoops.

If this makes you squirm, you would really squirm over some of the stories......nevermind....trust me, this is nothing to squirm about in comparison to real squirmy activity.

[NersEllenson]

I know there is nothing wrong with it, but the Summer League program was essentially a MU program not run by MU. From the outside that looks wrong to me. There is so much grey area in college basketball that its hard to throw stones.

The summer league didn't feature high school or even middle school players...the only players allowed were current NCAA players, past NCAA/NAIA players, or professionals.  Pretty sure you can't recruit any of those types to come play at MU.

[NersEllenson]

They aren't taking it to a new level other than getting more guys that want to play for IU.  The Elite program has been around a long time, the problem was that kids didn't want to stay home, now they do.

If this makes you squirm, you would really squirm over some of the stories......nevermind....trust me, this is nothing to squirm about in comparison to real squirmy activity.

Actually, I think it's time for you to share with everyone here at Scoop just what Buzz and MU have done that really makes you squirm?  No more excuse making Chicos.  Be a man and put it out there..enough of the little girl insinuations.

[MUfan12]

Actually, I think it's time for you to share with everyone here at Scoop just what Buzz and MU have done that really makes you squirm?  No more excuse making Chicos.  Be a man and put it out there..enough of the little girl insinuations.

Agreed. Let's hear it.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Actually, I think it's time for you to share with everyone here at Scoop just what Buzz and MU have done that really makes you squirm?  No more excuse making Chicos.  Be a man and put it out there..enough of the little girl insinuations.

I'm glad you think it's time for sharing.  I've hinted enough and I'm not going any further with it.  Don't like it, too bad. 

By the way, loved this thread, kind of funny.  It screams that you've been wrong this whole time and now you want to come up with an excuse to quantify how your arch villain is somehow doing well now.  Good grief man, LET IT GO.  MOVEON.ORG  He's gone.  He ain't coaching here anymore. 

[GOMU1104]

Actually, I think it's time for you to share with everyone here at Scoop just what Buzz and MU have done that really makes you squirm?  No more excuse making Chicos.  Be a man and put it out there..enough of the little girl insinuations.

Agreed. Let's hear it.

Question...why would you want Chicos putting those stories out on public message boards? It doesnt make much sense to me.

I've heard some good recruiting stories myself. None of which I will ever put out for the public to see. It just doesnt make sense to do it.

[dw3dw3dw3]

I'm glad you think it's time for sharing.  I've hinted enough and I'm not going any further with it.  Don't like it, too bad. 

By the way, loved this thread, kind of funny.  It screams that you've been wrong this whole time and now you want to come up with an excuse to quantify how your arch villain is somehow doing well now.  Good grief man, LET IT GO.  MOVEON.ORG  He's gone.  He ain't coaching here anymore. 

Just to be clear, could you state if you believe Buzz operates in violation of NCAA rules? Or does he operate within rules, and just go in the grey area that may seem sleazy to the outsider?

[Golden Avalanche]

By the way, loved this thread, kind of funny.  It screams that you've been wrong this whole time and now you want to come up with an excuse to quantify how your arch villain is somehow doing well now.  Good grief man, LET IT GO.  MOVEON.ORG  He's gone.  He ain't coaching here anymore. 

This line of thinking caught me as well. Not necessarily with Ners per se but with other fans in general: I wonder how long it will be for those who complained about Crean not getting it done at Indiana to now complain about the way he is now getting it done.

But, really, the main question is do Indiana fans give a crap? If not, this is irrelevant. Just ask Josh Pastner and the Memphis Magic (or something like that).

[Dr. Blackheart]

Buckley knows the state well too from his days at Ball State and has close local ties including Chicago.  McLeod almost tanked CTC before he was axed...closed the Hurley network to IU but he was a major mistake of a hire.  McClain was a great replacement to steady the teaching and development...plus his network in the west, south and JUCO.  All about "connections" but I am sure the Red Rodents to the West will claim everyone else is "shady".  This is how it is done.

TC has done a great job this offseason in-state.  His job futures and mental health were on the line after last season.  IU is still a mish-mash of a roster this season. Walk-on Danny Moore dominated their H'ween scrimmage.  8th place is the high water mark.

[NersEllenson]

I'm glad you think it's time for sharing.  I've hinted enough and I'm not going any further with it.  Don't like it, too bad. 

By the way, loved this thread, kind of funny.  It screams that you've been wrong this whole time and now you want to come up with an excuse to quantify how your arch villain is somehow doing well now.  Good grief man, LET IT GO.  MOVEON.ORG  He's gone.  He ain't coaching here anymore. 

What I find funny is that you are notorious for posting every article or link pertaining to/praising Tom Crean and his "recruiting successes," yet for some ironic reason...you failed to provide the link to this very article??  Gee..I wonder why??

My issue isn't with Tom Crean..it's with you and your veiled attempts to discredit the way our current coach goes about his business...whether that is him recruiting JUCO's, how he recruits, whatever it is.  Yet..here we have your boy Tom Crean hiring an AAU coaches son to be video coordinator, giving a walk on spot to one of the AAU programs Board of Directors...and no outrage from you?  No mentions of this making you squirm?  Nonetheless, the only reason I'd enjoy seeing Tom Crean fail..is to shut you up.  Period.

[Lennys Tap]

I'm glad you think it's time for sharing.  I've hinted enough and I'm not going any further with it.  Don't like it, too bad.  

By the way, loved this thread, kind of funny.  It screams that you've been wrong this whole time and now you want to come up with an excuse to quantify how your arch villain is somehow doing well now.  Good grief man, LET IT GO.  MOVEON.ORG  He's gone.  He ain't coaching here anymore.  

No offense, but are you really telling ANYONE to "move on" or "let it go"? About anything? I know you're a big fan of irony. You advising people on the merits of "moving on" and "letting things go" is the absolute height of it.

[77ncaachamps]

*yawn*

[ChicosBailBonds]

This line of thinking caught me as well. Not necessarily with Ners per se but with other fans in general: I wonder how long it will be for those who complained about Crean not getting it done at Indiana to now complain about the way he is now getting it done.

But, really, the main question is do Indiana fans give a crap? If not, this is irrelevant. Just ask Josh Pastner and the Memphis Magic (or something like that).

Yes, IU fans give a big crap.  Very conservative state and extremely upset with how Sampson sullied the program and university.  They do care.

Of course fans were going to start down the "he must be cheating" angle that Ners went.  Of course, if he has to cheat at IU, imagine what cheating he had to do at Marquette.   Because isn't it obvious, all these kids are simply robots (along with their families) and would only go to a school where they have hired the video coordinator from the AAU team so they can hang out for the next four years. 

Seriously, you sometimes can't make this stuff up...but Ners, I do enjoy reading your stuff.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Just to be clear, could you state if you believe Buzz operates in violation of NCAA rules? Or does he operate within rules, and just go in the grey area that may seem sleazy to the outsider?

Just to be clear, I said that there are things that make me squirm and I've listed SOME of them.

Signing a kid to a National Letter of Intent and then dumping him a few weeks later for another player, that makes me squirm.

Recruiting kids after they have already verbally committed to other schools, that makes me squirm.

Etc. 

Are those against the rules....nope.   Are AAU kids going to a college against the rules?  Nope.  That makes Ners squirm.  Some of things that we've done makes me squirm.  It's a squirmfest.

Of course there are some other things as well that make me squirm....just as Dwyane Wade videos at IU make people here squirm.  Go figure.

[Dr. Blackheart]

Of course there are some other things as well that make me squirm....just as Dwyane Wade videos at IU make people here squirm.  Go figure.

Coach Cal also did a video for IU and his buddy....that makes me squirm   

[ChicosBailBonds]

Coach Cal also did a video for IU and his buddy....that makes me squirm   

Billy Gillespie was at our practices helping out his buddy...that makes me squirm   

[4everwarriors]

Crean coaching MU made me squirm.

[GGGG]

I believe this type of thing is becoming more of a trend, but as the article states..IU is taking it to a new level, as far as % of their kids coming from 1 AAU program.  Where it gets a little sleazy is when you hire the son of the coach of said AAU team to be your "video coordinator," and then offer a walk on position to one of the AAU teams Board of Directors sons.

Honestly, this doesn't bother me all that much.  In the end, if the kid choses IU out of free-will and without getting paid off, I have no problem with this.

And I'm with Chicos on this.  I would much rather Buzz develop a similar AAU feeder-program than drop kids from NLIs.