Insight into how Recruiting Works..Nowadays..

[MerrittsMustache]

If this makes you squirm, you would really squirm over some of the stories......nevermind....trust me, this is nothing to squirm about in comparison to real squirmy activity.

In other words, (read in a schoolgirl, sing-song manner) "I know something you don't know! I know something you don't know! Ha ha ha-ha ha!"


When will you ever give up this same, tired act, Chicos?

[NavinRJohnson]

If this makes you squirm, you would really squirm over some of the stories......nevermind....trust me, this is nothing to squirm about in comparison to real squirmy activity.

Wow. How incredibly weak. Weak isn't even the word...Pathetic is more like it. If you are truly that uncomfortable with the things Buzz does, have a love for MU, and are the upstanding moral guy your position yourself as, then please for the sake of the entire MU community, bring the despicable acts into the light of day. Otherwise, you are doing nothing more than tacitly endorsing the activities and playing a role in the denigration of MU's program.

Just to be clear, I said that there are things that make me squirm and I've listed SOME of them.

Signing a kid to a National Letter of Intent and then dumping him a few weeks later for another player, that makes me squirm.

Recruiting kids after they have already verbally committed to other schools, that makes me squirm.

Etc. 

I'm assuming that the "Etc." is where the real squirmy activity must be, so please for the sake of all of us, let's have it! If not, well then you're just full of crap. Allowing a guy to sully the MU program is not something I'm good with, and I assume the same is true of most here,  because if you really think DJ Newbill or recruiting after verbal commitments (as we all know those are always honored), are in any way worse than anything Crean ever did, let alone providing jobs/money to secure your recruiting pipeline, then once again your BS shines through brightly. So please, I beg of you, expose that creep, Buzz Williams, so we can get started cleaning up the program.

I can't believe its been 5 years already.

[Hards Alumni]

It is threads like this that make me check back here less and less.  So wrong on both sides of the argument.  One ego trying to call out another's ego.  No one really thinking about what they are talking about.  Blah blah blah.

[MarquetteDano]

Honestly, this doesn't bother me all that much.  In the end, if the kid choses IU out of free-will and without getting paid off, I have no problem with this.

And I'm with Chicos on this.  I would much rather Buzz develop a similar AAU feeder-program than drop kids from NLIs.

Have to agree with Sultan & Chicos on this one.  Dropping a kid from a NLI is worse than a feeder program in the moral scheme of things.  I still like Buzz and think he has done an exceptional job but we are in no position to cast stones right now.

[madtownwarrior]

If this makes you squirm, you would really squirm over some of the stories......nevermind....trust me, this is nothing to squirm about in comparison to real squirmy activity.


Again, with fans with Chicos, do you really need Badger or Louisville fans?

[NersEllenson]

There is a reason the NCAA has placed major restrictions on universities hiring AAU and even JUCO coaches - because they know they hold ALOT of influence over where a kid "chooses" to go to school.  So..giving an AAU coaches son a job, and one of its Board of Directors sons a spot on the IU team as a walk on..is the next level...

Is this within the "rules?"  It appears to be.  That said..for the "camp" who comes here and alleges behavior by the current coaching staff at MU as making them "squirm," at minimum it is quite ironic.  People in glass houses shouldn't cast stones.  Lastly, is "oversigning" within the rules?  Yes.  Did we like what happened in the Newbill situation?  No.  Did we truly have all of the facts?  Probably not.  

End of story...but it is quite ironic that our resident stone caster failed to publish this particular article link on IU and Tom Crean...as we usually get every single article that praises Tom Crean posted here...but yet not this one??  Ironic.

[GGGG]

End of story?  Oh...OK....

My point is that college basketball is a cut-throat and shady business.  To pretend that MU doesn't participate in some of this shadiness is simply wrong-headed.

[Lennys Tap]

Billy Gillespie was at our practices helping out his buddy...that makes me squirm  

This sums up our differences on Buzz and TC. I like the guy who doesn't abandon a friend/mentor who struggles with an illness. For you, it's bad pr and it makes you squirm. I squirm if my coach's BFFs are college basketball's biggest convicted cheater (Sampson) and its biggest cheater still on the loose (Calipari). You don't.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

we are in no position to cast stones right now.

Yes we are!

I think TC is a douche, and therefore I will look for every chink in the armor to prove it to everybody here.

I can't wait for IU to start landing big time recruits so I can say that TC must be doing a lot more shady stuff.

[Pakuni]

All this squirming in making me, ... well, you know.

[NersEllenson]

End of story?  Oh...OK....

My point is that college basketball is a cut-throat and shady business.  To pretend that MU doesn't participate in some of this shadiness is simply wrong-headed.

I'm not the one trumpeting MU as this squeaky clean program per se...but I'm certainly not the one trying to cast stones and insinuate that our current coaching staff doesn't do things as "ethically" as the previous regime.  Nor do I come on here and allege things about the Indiana program, "that make me squirm," but never share just exactly WHAT they are.  That would just be cheesy and weak.  I think everyone can agree that college basketball is a cut throat business....but let's not attack our current coaching staff with squirmy allegations, that one can only allege...through I heard from a friend of a friend of a friend...etc...

[CrazyEcho]

I realize today is going to be a very long day for you...as I told you and others 2 years ago.  I'd suggest you start drinking now and keep the change.

You predicted that a President's party was going to lose seats in a mid-term election!?!?!?!?!?!!  How insightful!

[ChicosBailBonds]

There is a reason the NCAA has placed major restrictions on universities hiring AAU and even JUCO coaches - because they know they hold ALOT of influence over where a kid "chooses" to go to school.  So..giving an AAU coaches son a job, and one of its Board of Directors sons a spot on the IU team as a walk on..is the next level...

Is this within the "rules?"  It appears to be.  That said..for the "camp" who comes here and alleges behavior by the current coaching staff at MU as making them "squirm," at minimum it is quite ironic.  People in glass houses shouldn't cast stones.  Lastly, is "oversigning" within the rules?  Yes.  Did we like what happened in the Newbill situation?  No.  Did we truly have all of the facts?  Probably not.  

End of story...but it is quite ironic that our resident stone caster failed to publish this particular article link on IU and Tom Crean...as we usually get every single article that praises Tom Crean posted here...but yet not this one??  Ironic.

Ironic?  Really.  Actually I don't post articles about IU or TC on this board as a thread starter (or haven't in ages)...remember.  It's you and the obsessed ones that do.  For one, it should be on the SuperBar.  Secondly, I can't remember the last thread topic I started about IU and nor would I....so really there is no irony at all.  Perhaps you should look inward and ask why you keep on bringing him up and then don't act so surprised when people respond to your posts.  That might be a start.

You said this makes you squirm, I provided things that make me squirm.  What IU is doing is not only legal, it's sanctioned and has been going on forever at all the top schools.  It used to be the elite camps, which MU had along with just about everyone else.  It's changed. 

But just to make sure I understand where you are coming from, IU is now getting these top players because they hired a video coordinator from the AAU team?  Not because it's the flagship school of the state, has won 5 titles, their coach (love him or hate him) has put a few guys into the NBA and professionally in Europe, etc....no no, it's because they all want to play at IU to be with the video coordinator.  You're precious Ners, you really are.

[ChicosBailBonds]

End of story?  Oh...OK....

My point is that college basketball is a cut-throat and shady business.  To pretend that MU doesn't participate in some of this shadiness is simply wrong-headed.

You are a saboteur!!!

[Canadian Dimes]

. I like the guy who doesn't abandon a friend/mentor who struggles with an illness. For you, it's bad pr and it makes you squirm.


Lenny did i miss something here?  could you enlighten me on this statement?

[Lennys Tap]

. I like the guy who doesn't abandon a friend/mentor who struggles with an illness. For you, it's bad pr and it makes you squirm.


Lenny did i miss something here?  could you enlighten me on this statement?

I admire Buzz for sticking by a friend struggling with alcoholism (Gillespie).

[Canadian Dimes]

I hate Crean as much as the next guy but I think people are over reacting to this.  There have been close ties between AAu teams and schools for a long time.  The swing and Wisconsin etc etc.  the beginning of the article even names a number of other programs like this.  It is not that big of a deal.  

The majority of the kids have a desire to attend the state school anyway.  The swing kids were Badger fans before they even knew what basketball is ...same with Indiana Elite.  I am very familiar with Indiana Elite and yes the majority of the guys are IU fans or IU grads etc.  Well holy moses an AAU basketball program that has a bunch of IU fans and grads involved....go figure!!   of course they are going to favor IU.  Happens in programs everywhere.  Those are the same kids that have attended IU for years.  bloomington Red is a perfect example, these are kids growing up in the shadows of bloomington and IU was good then.  

This is no different than when Brian Butch signs with Wisconsin or Faust signs with MAryland...the hometown school has alot of advantages.  Bottom line is the basketball world is a small world and most everyone knows each other.  Likes and dislikes and pursuasions etc. are going to be a part of it ...always have always will

The problem with it for Mu is Wisconsin is arguably the worst stae in the country for HS basketball talent while Indiana has 5-10 four and 5 star players a year.  

In fact Crean did have a pipelin similar to this built with Larry Butler and the Illinois Warriors until his boorish behavior and complete jack assishness burnt that bridge.  
One last question when everyone wants to bring up abandoning players that signed NLI's...have you forgotten the best player on the Duquesne team , whom will most likely get drafte into the NBA this year and where he signed his NLI to? Does anyone remeber how that went down...when he was severed only days before school started and was left scrambing/  
Comparing Buzz to crean and using the NLI card is the pot calling the kettle black.

[mugrad2006]

Saunders was the final member of MUs' four-player recruiting class for 2007-'08, joining Scott Christopherson, Patrick Hazel and Trevor Mbakwe.

It pains me just to think about what the total contribution was from that class.  Really hurts that none of those guys panned out.

[SalsaMan]

Crean coaching MU made me squirm.

Crean's habitual creaning of young men made me squirm

[Pakuni]

One last question when everyone wants to bring up abandoning players that signed NLI's...have you forgotten the best player on the Duquesne team , whom will most likely get drafte into the NBA this year and where he signed his NLI to? Does anyone remeber how that went down...when he was severed only days before school started and was left scrambing/  
Comparing Buzz to crean and using the NLI card is the pot calling the kettle black.

Yeah, but that kid had academic issues.
You know, the kind that are discovered just before classes start, but apparently aren't serious enough to keep a kid from playing right away elsewhere. And conveniently arise when your team is oversigned.

[Canadian Dimes]

I admire Buzz for sticking by a friend struggling with alcoholism (Gillespie).

ya no kidding i think myself and about 99.9% of people that follow the game would perfer their coach call the former UK coach a friend than the present. 

[Canadian Dimes]

Saunders was the final member of MUs' four-player recruiting class for 2007-'08, joining Scott Christopherson, Patrick Hazel and Trevor Mbakwe.

It pains me just to think about what the total contribution was from that class.  Really hurts that none of those guys panned out.

Actually Suanders panned out quite well potential A10 POY and possible NBA draft pik.  Sadly that class was not out of the ordinary, in fact a Crean class that had more than 1 or 2 players stay 4 years was out of the ordinary.  I beleive Brandon bells class was 5 strong and none made it to Junior year. 

[Jay-Z]

How has this entire thread not been deleted by moderators....must be on lunch break.   Everyone is just attacking each other over mostly rumors and half-truths without having all the information to even have a solid position.

[Jay-Z]

Over/under on posts pertaining to this topic or offshoots of it? 85 feels about right. In the down days of summer I would venture about 130.

I'm squirming too.

pretty solid predicition, almost there

[ChicosBailBonds]

I admire Buzz for sticking by a friend struggling with alcoholism (Gillespie).

I admire him also for doing that, but you obviously missed the bigger picture on that one.