Harrison Announcement

[muarmy81]

I don't have the data going back to the 1980's or 1990's...the interesting thing is we would have actually had 7 top 100 players on the team in 2008, the year Crean left.  Of course the transfers made it so that never happened (instead we had 5 on the roster twice in the 2000's)....that's why I chuckle sometimes when I hear about how recruiting got "worse" after 2003.  

All 7 made the final 100 on some of the rankings.  6 of the 7 were RSCI final 100...only Lazar wasn't because so many don't rank Prep School guys, but he did make the top 100 for those that did.

Dominic James
Jerel McNeal
Wes Matthews
Lazar Hayward
Nick Williams
Trevor Mbakwe
Tyshawn Taylor

I'm sure someone like BMA or one of the others that follows recruiting very closely might have some of the data from KO in the 1990's or perhaps one of the Raymonds years came close.

I believe the comment was 6 top 100 guys on the roster...As you're well aware Nick and Tyshawn never made it to Marquette, which isn't a knock on anyone's recruiting just stating the fact that we now will have 6 of those type recruits on the roster at the same time...

[GGGG]

I think the bigger issue is that some people here didn't like the hire of Buzz Williams, and said as much upon him getting hired - and to see him succeed and prove them wrong is almost worse for them and their ego, than it would be to see MU suck under Buzz (and prove them right).  

Oh Puh-leeze... 

This kind of stuff is absolutely ridiculous.  I wasn't thrilled with Crean leaving and the Buzz hire, but I have pretty much been won over.  However he has clearly lifted expectations.  And frankly, with all of your talk, so have posters such as yourself who are projecting frequent final four appearances.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I believe the comment was 6 top 100 guys on the roster...As you're well aware Nick and Tyshawn never made it to Marquette, which isn't a knock on anyone's recruiting just stating the fact that we now will have 6 of those type recruits on the roster at the same time...

Uhm, correct...that's why I framed it and said "of course the transfers made it so that never happened".   

[damuts222]

I think the bigger issue is that some people here didn't like the hire of Buzz Williams, and said as much upon him getting hired - and to see him succeed and prove them wrong is almost worse for them and their ego, than it would be to see MU suck under Buzz (and prove them right).  

I didn't like it when they first hired Buzz, why because I didn't know anything about him and he had coached a New Orleans team whose situation but Buzz in an initial bad light.

I don't believe any true MU fan would like to see MU fail or do poorly in basketball just so they could be right.

As sports fans I think that most everyone sets realistic expectations on the teams they root for, until they start to get a little spoiled. We are becoming a little spoiled in the recruiting department as well as the yearly trips to the tournament.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Oh Puh-leeze... 

This kind of stuff is absolutely ridiculous.  I wasn't thrilled with Crean leaving and the Buzz hire, but I have pretty much been won over.  However he has clearly lifted expectations.  And frankly, with all of your talk, so have posters such as yourself who are projecting frequent final four appearances.

Agree.....with everything you just said.  I'm clearing out room in the den to hang replica Final Four banners and awaiting a 25 year coaching reign based on some of the comments.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I didn't like it when they first hired Buzz, why because I didn't know anything about him and he had coached a New Orleans team whose situation but Buzz in an initial bad light.

I don't believe any true MU fan would like to see MU fail or do poorly in basketball just so they could be right.

As sports fans I think that most everyone sets realistic expectations on the teams they root for, until they start to get a little spoiled. We are becoming a little spoiled in the recruiting department as well as the yearly trips to the tournament.

+1

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Oh Puh-leeze... 

This kind of stuff is absolutely ridiculous.  I wasn't thrilled with Crean leaving and the Buzz hire, but I have pretty much been won over.  However he has clearly lifted expectations.  And frankly, with all of your talk, so have posters such as yourself who are projecting frequent final four appearances.

+1. Perfectly stated. 

Ners, buddy, I love your positivity regarding Buzz, but you're trying to hard on this one.

[Benny B]

Sometimes I wonder -- had Al Gore not been such a procrastinator and invented the Internet in 1973, would we have been sitting here in April of 1974 bitching about how crappy last year was?



1977 can't come soon enough, I suppose.  Only then will everyone hold hands again... maybe.

[kmwtrucks]

We knew Buzz could Recruit. In R/E Buzz he is a better coach then I thought he would be, He also hired a Great staff.  It generally feels the player's seem to have fun playing.  Sometimes Crean was so intense it seemed to take some of the fun out of the game for the player's.

[mugrad99]

Agree.....with everything you just said.  I'm clearing out room in the den to hang replica Final Four banners and awaiting a 25 year coaching reign based on some of the comments.

Chicos...so you are now saying you have been won over by Buzz?  It's only year 3. 

Aside from that I agree 100% Sultan. I think there's quite a silent majority, who likds Crean as a Coach, was upset at how the process went down afterwards, but is happy with what Buzz has done so far.

[NersEllenson]

Oh Puh-leeze... 

This kind of stuff is absolutely ridiculous.  I wasn't thrilled with Crean leaving and the Buzz hire, but I have pretty much been won over.  However he has clearly lifted expectations.  And frankly, with all of your talk, so have posters such as yourself who are projecting frequent final four appearances.

We can agree to disagree - to deny that there are some (not necessarily you) that are frustrated, and weirdly upset with the amount of success Buzz has had up to this point - is to deny reality.  Marquette84 and Chicos fall into this category.  It's a weird deal, but given their never ending defense and love of TC, combined with inflating expectations for last year's team well beyond anyone expected, waiting 5 years to reserve judgment, being critical of us recruiting JUCO kids, alleging improprieties on the recruiting trail that make them "squirm," all point to a subliminal agenda.  

[Lennys Tap]

Oh Puh-leeze... 

This kind of stuff is absolutely ridiculous.  I wasn't thrilled with Crean leaving and the Buzz hire, but I have pretty much been won over.  However he has clearly lifted expectations.  And frankly, with all of your talk, so have posters such as yourself who are projecting frequent final four appearances.

Question: If, as you say, Buzz has lifted your expectations from what they were during the Crean era, why are you only "pretty much won over"? I expect more from Buzz because I think he's a better coach, recruiter and person than TC. Seems to me having higher expectations for the program is tantamount to an admission that MU is in better hands.

[NersEllenson]

I don't have the data going back to the 1980's or 1990's...the interesting thing is we would have actually had 7 top 100 players on the team in 2008, the year Crean left.  
All 7 made the final 100 on some of the rankings.  6 of the 7 were RSCI final 100...only Lazar wasn't because so many don't rank Prep School guys, but he did make the top 100 for those that did.

Dominic James
Jerel McNeal
Wes Matthews
Lazar Hayward
Nick Williams
Trevor Mbakwe
Tyshawn Taylor

Several flaws with your point:
Considering the Big 3 were in one class (2005), and Nick Williams and Ty Taylor weren't 3 years later until the 2008 class - really wouldn't be an issue for being able to sell playing time..it was quite easy for Taylor and Williams to see the court was all theirs after a 1-year apprenticeship under the Big 3.  Crean was always good for landing a good recruiting class every 3 years, no one disputes that - but never did he have to sell players on coming to MU with a roster that was clearly stacked.  Did he ever land just back to back Top 20 classes..much less land 3 in a row (which is where we are at this season with Buzz).

Furthermore, you aren't taking into account that there isn't a DJO type of player on the roster, nor a Jae Crowder type of player on the roster..in addition to the names on your list above.

[bma725]

Ners,

You haven't been around these boards that long so there's no way for you to know this, but the notion that Chico's is a Crean lover is absolutely f'n absurd to anyone who's read his posts for more than a couple years.  Back in the old days, he used to say the exact same things about Crean that he's saying about Buzz now.  And just like now, people used to blast him and call him a Deane apologist and a Crean hater.  

It's just his M.O. and you have to learn to deal with it.  Doesn't matter who it is, he's always going to take the same approach to a new coach.  I'm sure when Buzz is gone and people are fawning over whomever his replacement is, Chico's will be blasted as a Buzz lover and a new guy hater while everything he said about Crean is merely a memory for those who've been around awhile, just like the Deane stuff is now.

[GGGG]

Question: If, as you say, Buzz has lifted your expectations from what they were during the Crean era, why are you only "pretty much won over"?

Because he really hasn't won anything of substance yet.

Oh...let me add that I am still laughing at being called out that "pretty much won over" isn't enough for some people.  I guess to some the only way I can achieve complete fanboi status is if I shave my head, wear flashy suits, drink lots of sweet tea and name my kids Buzz.

[ATWizJr]

Ners,

You haven't been around these boards that long so there's no way for you to know this, but the notion that Chico's is a Crean lover is absolutely f'n absurd to anyone who's read his posts for more than a couple years.  Back in the old days, he used to say the exact same things about Crean that he's saying about Buzz now.  And just like now, people used to blast him and call him a Deane apologist and a Crean hater.  

It's just his M.O. and you have to learn to deal with it.  Doesn't matter who it is, he's always going to take the same approach to a new coach.  I'm sure when Buzz is gone and people are fawning over whomever his replacement is, Chico's will be blasted as a Buzz lover and a new guy hater while everything he said about Crean is merely a memory for those who've been around awhile, just like the Deane stuff is now.

Since you're apologizing for Chico's, how about this, instead of eveyone learning to deal with his MO, he evaluates the new coach on what he is doing and he evaluates the old coach on what he has done?

[Lennys Tap]

I don't have the data going back to the 1980's or 1990's...the interesting thing is we would have actually had 7 top 100 players on the team in 2008, the year Crean left.  Of course the transfers made it so that never happened (instead we had 5 on the roster twice in the 2000's)....that's why I chuckle sometimes when I hear about how recruiting got "worse" after 2003.  

All 7 made the final 100 on some of the rankings.  6 of the 7 were RSCI final 100...only Lazar wasn't because so many don't rank Prep School guys, but he did make the top 100 for those that did.

Dominic James
Jerel McNeal
Wes Matthews
Lazar Hayward
Nick Williams
Trevor Mbakwe
Tyshawn Taylor

I'm sure someone like BMA or one of the others that follows recruiting very closely might have some of the data from KO in the 1990's or perhaps one of the Raymonds years came close.

If TC had stayed MU would have had 5 RSCI top 100 guys on the 2008-09 roster - Mbakwe was gone for sure. The 5 included 3 senior guards and 2 freshman guards. In between was Lazar and little else. Some great players? Yes. But also unbalanced classes without any size. And Dwight Burke as a starter. That would have been year 10 for TC with his best class ever graduating. Major rebuilding would have followed. With Buzz, the rebuilding became reloading.

[Lennys Tap]

Because he really hasn't won anything of substance yet.

Oh...let me add that I am still laughing at being called out that "pretty much won over" isn't enough for some people.  I guess to some the only way I can achieve complete fanboi status is if I shave my head, wear flashy suits, drink lots of sweet tea and name my kids Buzz.

I'm not calling you out. I'm merely saying that if you expect more from someone than you did of his predecessor it necessarily means you think that someone is superior to his predecessor at the job.

[GGGG]

I'm not calling you out. I'm merely saying that if you expect more from someone than you did of his predecessor it necessarily means you think that someone is superior to his predecessor at the job.

No it means I clearly *expect* them to be superior.  Buzz has not yet proven to be superior.

[NersEllenson]

Ners,

You haven't been around these boards that long so there's no way for you to know this, but the notion that Chico's is a Crean lover is absolutely f'n absurd to anyone who's read his posts for more than a couple years.  Back in the old days, he used to say the exact same things about Crean that he's saying about Buzz now.  And just like now, people used to blast him and call him a Deane apologist and a Crean hater.  

It's just his M.O. and you have to learn to deal with it.  Doesn't matter who it is, he's always going to take the same approach to a new coach.  I'm sure when Buzz is gone and people are fawning over whomever his replacement is, Chico's will be blasted as a Buzz lover and a new guy hater while everything he said about Crean is merely a memory for those who've been around awhile, just like the Deane stuff is now.

Thanks for the additional background...you are correct in saying I've only read Scoop for about 2.5 years.  If Chicos was a Deane apologist, all I can say about that is...take that for what it's worth.  Anyone who would defend Mike Deane's time/tenure/attitude with the Marquettte basketball program clearly just doesn't get it.  If you couldn't see Tom Crean was an upgrade over Mike Deane..while that is just ignorance.  I was closely involved with the MU program for 1992-1997 and saw first hand the program beginning to implode under Mike Deane - there really wasn't anything to defend in the case of Mike Deane.  Why would someone choose to defend that era of MU basketball?  Wait, I think you explained it when you wrote:  It's just his M.O and you have to learn to deal with it."  That helps me understand his position as the board's resident contrarian

[Pakuni]

Ners,

You haven't been around these boards that long so there's no way for you to know this, but the notion that Chico's is a Crean lover is absolutely f'n absurd to anyone who's read his posts for more than a couple years.  Back in the old days, he used to say the exact same things about Crean that he's saying about Buzz now.  And just like now, people used to blast him and call him a Deane apologist and a Crean hater.  

It's just his M.O. and you have to learn to deal with it.  Doesn't matter who it is, he's always going to take the same approach to a new coach.  I'm sure when Buzz is gone and people are fawning over whomever his replacement is, Chico's will be blasted as a Buzz lover and a new guy hater while everything he said about Crean is merely a memory for those who've been around awhile, just like the Deane stuff is now.

Since we've taken to debating Chico's motivations - I'm not sure why, and I feel bad for participating (though apparently not bad enough not to participate) - this isn't exactly how I recall his early stance on Crean. My recollection, which could be wrong, was that he had issues with TC because he thought TC would be using MU as nothing more than a steppingstone and we'd be back searching for another coach a few years down the line. Turns out he was partially correct.

That said, I have no doubt Chico's is a hardcore Marquette fan and sincerely wishes the program success. He just has an unconventional way of showing his support and, IMHO, is unduly critical skeptical of the current coach.

p.s. Not sure it qualifies him as an apologist, but he was one of the few fans on the old, old Ahoya board who didn't think Deane deserved to be fired.

[Earl Tatum]

//
Like Team Captain mwentioned previously --- MICHAEL SHAW  is the man we need.
Also, Trey Mc Donald, nice to have a 6-9 long armed player, who can move, lurking around the basket.

[willie warrior]

//
Like Team Captain mwentioned previously --- MICHAEL SHAW  is the man we need.
Also, Trey Mc Donald, nice to have a 6-9 long armed player, who can move, lurking around the basket.

it would be great if we landed those two!

[ChicosBailBonds]

Sometimes I wonder -- had Al Gore not been such a procrastinator and invented the Internet in 1973, would we have been sitting here in April of 1974 bitching about how crappy last year was?



1977 can't come soon enough, I suppose.  Only then will everyone hold hands again... maybe.

Hell, can you imagine the bitching in the 1977 year itself?  There are many folks that claim MU didn't deserve a bid at all with 7 losses. 

It's like watching what's going on with Georgia right now and Mark Richt...or Texas fans calling for Mack Brown's head.  What a joke.  It's like watching some of the bitching during the TC era.  Or LSU fans pissed at Les Miles.  As you win, people want more and more.

Personally, if Buzz can do what TC did, I'm be extremely happy.  If he exceeds it, I'll be off the charts happy. 

[TallTitan34]

Does this mean you won't accept Buzz until he beats the number 1 team in the country to get MU to the Final Four?