Malcom Moore has MU in his final 4

[kmwtrucks]

I think people underestimate how hard it is to recruit at MU.  On average WISC produces 2-3 high majors a year with 2 programs that have been top 25 on average the last 10 years. Assuming you recruit 4  player's each year and you can only get 1 from your home state, where do the other 3 come from? I would much rather he recruit Juco's early and get some of the best than wait and get a top 50 Juco late.  Crowder, Butler, DJO, Buycks, Fulce, were All-Americans as Freshman.  Only about 8 Fr player's make the list of 50.  If you look at how the Juco's that are All-American as FR perform when they move up you would be suprised how well they do compared to guys that only excel in there Soph year.  I have no problem with Buzz bringing in a really good Juco every year.  The guys that don't want them, the other option is taking some Mid major talent out of Wisc each year as your last recruit.

[NavinRJohnson]

What could possibly be wrong with giving them an oppotunity to make a better life for themselves?  In the end, isn't that what a college education at Marquette is supposed to be about?  It's certainly not supposed to be about judging people you've never met and don't know.

No, in some people's odd little basketball world, that line of thinking only applies to guys like DJ Newbill who had his life ruined by Buzz Williams because he has to go to Southern Miss instead of Marquette, but then again, when it works in the opposite direction, that's the wrong thing to do as well. Of course, claiming that you won't  make any judgments until after 5 years, and the proceeding to judge every move a guy makes every step of the way, kinda says it all about where some people are coming from.

[hairy worthen]

We should be recruiting individuals not specific groups. It shouldn't matter if they are high school recruits, prep school, transfers or jucos, if they are quality people that can help the program, then we should go after them. There are plenty of high school recruits that are less than quality people. Painting a group with such a wide brush is ignorant wether its jucos, white guys or whatever.

Buzz has hit on most of his JUCO recruits in terms of character (not to mention most have had a lot of basketball talent). 

 Lets be real though, JUCOs can be more risky as they couldn't cut it in high school for whatever reason but once they get to a stable environment at MU most have thrived thus far.

If Buzz starts recruiting more character misses like M. Clark and turns this into a Cincy type show then yes Cottingham should tell him to be more selective.  Until that happens I'm not ready to cut off the JUCO pipeline, in fact I get more pride in seeing these types of kids succeed academically at MU.

I agree but the "Cincy type show" included high school recruits as well, it was (is) the whole organization that is shadey not just the jucos


C

[NavinRJohnson]

"Its really humbling. It's really a blessing..."

He already talks like Buzz, and I suspect that's where he picked up that line. If MU really want's him, I'm guessing he'll be here.

[avid1010]

I thought our JUCO route was to balance the classes the first few years.  It seems we will continue to go the JUCO route indefinitely.  Not a fan. 

Agreed.  Wouldn't want any more players like DJO or JB...  Keep trying to get a rise out of everyone.  You're the Rush of MU Scoop.

[ChicosBailBonds]

You miss the point Avid.

A stable program is built on 4 year players, not 2 year players.

There's a reason why the powers in college basketball rarely, if ever, take JUCOs unless it's a one off situation.


DJO and JB are great players, unfortunately they will be here for only a few years.  I was told here constantly by folks that we were recruiting JUCOs only to close a gap in the classes.  As I stated then, I didn't think that would be the case and it appears that is correct.

I get why he's doing it.  The players are more mature in terms of playing experience, they are ready to play immediately.  But there is the downside in terms of stability, etc.  There's a significant reason why most top programs have very few JUCO players.

[ATWizJr]

Again, I cite John Wooden who used juco's throughout his career.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Who said it was to balance the classes?  Maybe it's to have a winning basketball team.  And honestly, as long as the kids aren't criminals and they represent MU well, lets win some basketball games.   Who cares

Who said...oh, I don't know...about 25 posters here.  I'll be happy to share the posts if you like from a few years ago.

Paraphrasing, but things like

He has no choice

It's out of necessity

It's a risk worth taking to balance the classes

Buzz is only doing this short term

Etc, etc.

I think some people here actually believe that DJO and JB is a zero sum game.  In other words, if we didn't go the JUCO route we would have no one to replace them.  That's not how it works fellas. 

I'm all for getting the best players to.  What STUNS me, absolutely STUNS me, is that the top programs somehow get all these good players WITHOUT going the JUCO route time and time again. How do they ever do it?    (And please, don't respond with UCLA had a JUCO in 2008 and another in 2001....we get it, on occasion programs will take a JUCO out of need.)

I'd much prefer high school kids, 4 year players, brought up on the program, more stability, very little turnover, etc, etc....that's how the best programs do it and I thought that's what we were aspiring to be.

Bring on the attacks boys.....5...4...3....2....1.....

[Skatastrophy]

I, personally, don't care what school a kid comes from.  If Buzz continues to successfully recruit talented, intelligent and hard working young men that are coming to MU to better themselves then I'm happy.

[ErickJD08]

Who said...oh, I don't know...about 25 posters here.  I'll be happy to share the posts if you like from a few years ago.

Paraphrasing, but things like

He has no choice

It's out of necessity

It's a risk worth taking to balance the classes

Buzz is only doing this short term

Etc, etc.

I think some people here actually believe that DJO and JB is a zero sum game.  In other words, if we didn't go the JUCO route we would have no one to replace them.  That's not how it works fellas. 

I'm all for getting the best players to.  What STUNS me, absolutely STUNS me, is that the top programs somehow get all these good players WITHOUT going the JUCO route time and time again. How do they ever do it?    (And please, don't respond with UCLA had a JUCO in 2008 and another in 2001....we get it, on occasion programs will take a JUCO out of need.)

I'd much prefer high school kids, 4 year players, brought up on the program, more stability, very little turnover, etc, etc....that's how the best programs do it and I thought that's what we were aspiring to be.

Bring on the attacks boys.....5...4...3....2....1.....

First, 25 posters here said its to balance the roster, not Buzz.  

Dude, no attack... have your own opinion.  But players who are really good rarely stay all four years anyways.  The game has changed.  Recruiting out of HS does not necessarily produce more stability, check out UK.  

Finally, you are right.  Elite programs do not really have to go the JUCO route to consistently get quality players in their program.  Newflash... MU is not an elite program as of right now.  Maybe though, after a few years of going deep into the tourney, winning the BE, or raising some banners, we will be considered elite.  Until then, we need to get quality players using any route within the rules.  

[RJax55]

I'd much prefer high school kids, 4 year players, brought up on the program, more stability, very little turnover, etc, etc....that's how the best programs do it and I thought that's what we were aspiring to be.

Actually, MU's Jucos players have been a very stable bunch, going back to Crean. IIRC, not one has left the program and the only one having some sort of off the court issue was Trend Blackledge.

Chicos, its acutually been the traditional high-school player that has burned MU... (See Maymon, Blankston, Mbakwe, etc.)

[goodgreatgrand]

I, personally, don't care what school a kid comes from.  If Buzz continues to successfully recruit talented, intelligent and hard working young men that are coming to MU to better themselves then I'm happy.

Im fine with your comment except for your use of the word "intelligent." Let's not dress-up the issue...an overwhelming percentage of college basketball players are anything but intelligent (especially kids that were academically ineligible out of h.s. and had to take the juco route).

[MUfan12]

Finally, you are right.  Elite programs do not really have to go the JUCO route to consistently get quality players in their program.  Newflash... MU is not an elite program as of right now.  Maybe though, after a few years of going deep into the tourney, winning the BE, or raising some banners, we will be considered elite.  Until then, we need to get quality players using any route within the rules.  

This. And let me add one more thing. Those "elite" programs also have a lot of HS one and dones, with the baggage that comes with them.

Personally, I'd rather have 2-3 years of a high level JUCO player, than one and dones that cause just as much instability.

[Skatastrophy]

Im fine with your comment except for your use of the word "intelligent." Let's not dress-up the issue...an overwhelming percentage of college basketball players are anything but intelligent (especially kids that were academically ineligible out of h.s. and had to take the juco route).

Our recruits thus far speak and present themselves intelligently.  Do not mistake lack of work-ethic as a teenager in high-school resulting in poor grades as a lack of intelligence.

Now, if we start recruiting kids that act like Cincinnati's recruits under Thuggins?  Then I'll retract my statement.  Up until now I've been impressed with the guys Buzz has brought in.

[tower912]

So, when the lineup on the floor is Fulce, Butler, Crowder, DJO, and Buycks, some people are going to turn off the game in disgust?!    Please.    Buzz successes and failures with recruiting are an open book.    Sometimes the freshman with baggage is the biggest problem, sometimes it is the juco commit who never actually makes it to campus before he gets accused of criminal wrong-doing, sometimes it is the perception of recruiting over a player to take a high level transfer.     Buzz's job is to 1. win games and 2. build a program the university can be proud of.   If he thinks this is the best way to do it, so be it until he fails to fulfill one of those 2 goals. 

[Blackhat]

Chicos you like to talk, I get that but you might want to slow down from time to time.  

70% of the top 10 schools in 2009-2010 in college basketball are schools that recruit JUCOs  and either had JUCOs on the active roster or in their 2011 recruiting class.

3.WVU
5.Kentucky
6.Kansas
7.Kansas State
8.Syracuse
9.Tennessee
10. Baylor

This doesn't even take into account Prep school players which most of those teams listed have an abundance of.  

[NavinRJohnson]

You miss the point Avid.

A stable program is built on 4 year players, not 2 year players.

There's a reason why the powers in college basketball rarely, if ever, take JUCOs unless it's a one off situation.

What a complete crock. Have you forgotten the greatest success MU has had in the past 30 years and Tom Crean's meal ticket, Dwyane Wade already? Check the early entries for teams like UNC, Duke, Kentucky, UCLA, Syracuse, UConn and please tell me how those team have been built on 4 year players. They aren't built on 4 year players, they are built on good players, the best available that they can go and get consistently until they jump to the NBA after a couple years.  

But, its good to know the standard for MU will continue to change for you yet again now that Buzz Williams is the coach. Do you even read the things you write around here anymore?

[Lennys Tap]

You miss the point Avid.

A stable program is built on 4 year players, not 2 year players.

There's a reason why the powers in college basketball rarely, if ever, take JUCOs unless it's a one off situation.


DJO and JB are great players, unfortunately they will be here for only a few years.  I was told here constantly by folks that we were recruiting JUCOs only to close a gap in the classes.  As I stated then, I didn't think that would be the case and it appears that is correct.

I get why he's doing it.  The players are more mature in terms of playing experience, they are ready to play immediately.  But there is the downside in terms of stability, etc.  There's a significant reason why most top programs have very few JUCO players.

Recruit high school kids to bring more "stability" to the program? Odartey Blankston, Ron Howard, Kevin Menard, "Manchild" Mathews, Carlton Christian, Brandon Bell, Dameon Mason, Ryan Amoroso, Karon Bradley, Matt Mortenson, Niv Berkowitz, Trevor Mbakwe, Scott Christopherson, Yous Mbao, Jeronne Maymon, Brett Roseboro and even the great D Wade are some examples of the "stability" brought to MU's program by high school recruits in just the last 8-9 years. Conversely, I think every one of our JC's/tranfers over that span  has fulfilled his eligibility and graduated. But why let the facts get in the way of a good argument?

[Blackhat]

Dude might want to stick to satellite tv.

[MuMark]

"very little turnover"

I seem to recall quit a bit of turnover recently from schools like UCLA, UNC, UCONN, IU, Kansas, Illinois, Ohio State, etc.

I agree that having a program with Juco recruits like Blackledge and Lott is not going to get us where we want to be but 3 year players like Butler, DJO, and Fulce along with a 2 year kids like Buycks and Crowder have worked out pretty well.

Good players. Good kids. Go to class and stay out fo trouble.

Whats not to like?

[NavinRJohnson]

Whats not to like?

For a few here, the coach who recruited them.

[Canadian Dimes]

I thought our JUCO route was to balance the classes the first few years.  It seems we will continue to go the JUCO route indefinitely.  Not a fan. 

One of the most discriminatory and ignorant things I have ever read on this board.  It is truly a shame MU is represented in this light by a so called fan. 

I find it pathetic that this same poster says he will wait 5 years to pass judgement on Buzz, yet reacts in a negative manner to every move he makes.  If we were all not so much dumber than chicos we might think he had already made up his mind.   

[jeffreyweee]

One of the most discriminatory and ignorant things I have ever read on this board.  It is truly a shame MU is represented in this light by a so called fan. 

I find it pathetic that this same poster says he will wait 5 years to pass judgement on Buzz, yet reacts in a negative manner to every move he makes.  If we were all not so much dumber than chicos we might think he had already made up his mind.   

Whoops. You over-reacted.

[madtownwarrior]

"DJO and JB are great players, unfortunately they will be here for only a few years."


I will take the 3 and 2 years, respectively, of DJO and JB versus some of the not quite four-year flameouts by some of the dubious recruits of the tan one (Mason, Menard, Mortenson, Amoroso, etc). 

Before you point out Crean's 4 year successes ( Three Amigo's, Novak, Hayward), I am sure Buzz will go both routes - 4 years players as the normal route and JUCO's to fill the right niches needed on the roster.

No if you want to discuss some of the tan one's JUCO moves, that's another story...

 

[MuMark]

Both DJO and JB will be 3 year players unless DJO ends up going pro early(unlikely but possible).