Non-League record & rpi

[Mr. Nielsen]

CBS Sportline RPI

3  Duke 35-5
6  Kansas State 29-8
21 Wisconsin 24-9
26 Vanderbilt 24-9
37 Gonzaga 27-7
108 Green Bay 22-13
131 Milwaukee 20-14
167 Texas A&M-Corpus Christi 17-15
218 South Dakota 22-10
258 Bucknell 14-17
272 Prairie View A&M 16-14
285 Longwood 12-19
315 Centenary 8-21
328 Mississppi Valley State 9-23

[Brewtown Andy]

Even considering that we'll only get 2 of Duke, KState and Gonzaga, that's pretty respectable.

[mileskishnish72]

Longwood?

[brewcity77]

Really wish we'd replace a few of those sub-250 teams with teams in the 150-200 range. I realize we don't really choose Bucknell, with the CBE, but say we replaced Prairie View A&M, Longwood, Centenary, and Mississippi Valley State with...

171 Southern Illinois 14-15
176 Massachusetts 11-20
177 La Salle 12-18
186 Valparaiso 12-17

I would still expect us to win those games without too much struggle, but it would vastly improve our RPI come March. Would also get us television coverage in parts of Illinois (plenty of MU fans still), the East Coast for UMass, Philadelphia for La Salle, and maybe Brenden Dawson could watch us play Valpo

[wildbillsb]

Really wish we'd replace a few of those sub-250 teams with teams in the 150-200 range. I realize we don't really choose Bucknell, with the CBE, but say we replaced Prairie View A&M, Longwood, Centenary, and Mississippi Valley State with...

171 Southern Illinois 14-15
176 Massachusetts 11-20
177 La Salle 12-18
186 Valparaiso 12-17

I would still expect us to win those games without too much struggle, but it would vastly improve our RPI come March. Would also get us television coverage in parts of Illinois (plenty of MU fans still), the East Coast for UMass, Philadelphia for La Salle, and maybe Brenden Dawson could watch us play Valpo

Oh great, now you tell us!  Where the heck were you when we were putting the schedule together. huh?

[GOMU1104]

Really wish we'd replace a few of those sub-250 teams with teams in the 150-200 range. I realize we don't really choose Bucknell, with the CBE, but say we replaced Prairie View A&M, Longwood, Centenary, and Mississippi Valley State with...

171 Southern Illinois 14-15
176 Massachusetts 11-20
177 La Salle 12-18
186 Valparaiso 12-17

I would still expect us to win those games without too much struggle, but it would vastly improve our RPI come March. Would also get us television coverage in parts of Illinois (plenty of MU fans still), the East Coast for UMass, Philadelphia for La Salle, and maybe Brenden Dawson could watch us play Valpo

Sounds nice...unfortunately all of those teams would like a return game eventually.

[Marquette84]

Really wish we'd replace a few of those sub-250 teams with teams in the 150-200 range. I realize we don't really choose Bucknell, with the CBE, but say we replaced Prairie View A&M, Longwood, Centenary, and Mississippi Valley State with...

171 Southern Illinois 14-15
176 Massachusetts 11-20
177 La Salle 12-18
186 Valparaiso 12-17

I would still expect us to win those games without too much struggle, but it would vastly improve our RPI come March. Would also get us television coverage in parts of Illinois (plenty of MU fans still), the East Coast for UMass, Philadelphia for La Salle, and maybe Brenden Dawson could watch us play Valpo

I think you're overlooking a key component of the RPI, and that's our opponents' w/l record..

Prairie View A&M's winning record (16-14) would have been better for our RPI than UMass 11-20 or LaSalle's 12-18.  Even though Prairie View's opponents w/l would have been worse, its only half the weighting as their own record.

There might be other good reasons to schedule LaSalle or UMass, however improving the RPI isn't one of them.

[Nukem2]

I think you're overlooking a key component of the RPI, and that's our opponents' w/l record..

Prairie View A&M's winning record (16-14) would have been better for our RPI than UMass 11-20 or LaSalle's 12-18.  Even though Prairie View's opponents w/l would have been worse, its only half the weighting as their own record.

There might be other good reasons to schedule LaSalle or UMass, however improving the RPI isn't one of them.

Ummm, the opponents' RPI already reflects their W/L record.  Their RPIs are still much better than the sub-300 teams.

[Marquette84]

Ummm, the opponents' RPI already reflects their W/L record.  Their RPIs are still much better than the sub-300 teams.

You're forgetting that the weighting of the factors is different--almost exactly opposite. 

Prairie view's own W/L record is weighted only 25% for them, but would be factored at 50% for our RPI.
Prairie view's opponents record is weighted at 50% for them, but only 25% for us.
Prairie view's opponents opponents record is weighted at 25% for them, and not included at all for us.

So here's the direct comparison:

Prairie View
16-14 record, or a .5333 winning percentage
Opponents average winning percentage is .4091

LaSalle
12-18 record, or a .4000 winning percentage
Opponents average winning percentage is .5436

There's no debate that LaSalle played a tougher schedule, and thats why they have a worse record.  The RPI rewads LaSalle for their schedule--not their winning percentage.

However, if we played both teams, the weighting would be different. 

If we played Prairie View:
.5 x .5333 + .25 x .4091 = .3689

If we played LaSalle:
.5 X .4000 + .25 x .5436 = .3359

.3698 > .3359, therefore it helps our RPI more to have played Prairie View, despite their lower RPI.  I've included the data below, so you can plug it into your own spread sheet and run the numbers if you want.

However, once you do you'll reach the conclusion that from an RPI perspective it is almost always better to play the team with a better winning percentage.  When its as significant as the difference between Prairie View and LaSalle, its a no brainer.


Data:

Prairie View      16   14
         
(113) New Mexico St.      22   12
(17) Texas A&M      24   10
(173) Iowa      10   22
(222) Arkansas Pine Bluff      18   16
(222) Arkansas Pine Bluff      18   16
(256) Air Force      10   21
(268) Texas Southern      17   16
(268) Texas Southern      17   16
(268) Texas Southern      17   16
(276) Jackson St.      19   13
(276) Jackson St.      19   13
(293) Alabama St.      16   15
(293) Alabama St.      16   15
(298) Florida Gulf Coast      8   21
(326) Mississippi Valley St.      9   23
(326) Mississippi Valley St.      9   23
(334) Alabama A&M      11   16
(334) Alabama A&M      11   16
(342) Grambling      7   21
(342) Grambling      7   21
(345) Southern      5   25
(345) Southern      5   25
(347) Alcorn St.      2   29
(347) Alcorn St.      2   29
(40) Oklahoma St.      22   11
(75) Cincinnati      19   16

LaSalle   12   18
      
(104) Charlotte   19   12
(116) George Washington   16   15
(116) George Washington   16   15
(135) St. Bonaventure   15   16
(14) Xavier   22   9
(148) Duquesne   16   16
(163) Massachusetts   12   20
(163) Massachusetts   12   20
(175) Saint Joseph's   11   20
(184) Rider   17   16
(194) Davidson   16   15
(2) Kansas   33   3
(21) Villanova   25   8
(216) Hampton   14   18
(218) Tulane   8   22
(22) Temple   29   6
(22) Temple   29   6
(235) Bucknell   14   17
(239) Lafayette   19   13
(26) Dayton   25   12
(275) Binghamton   13   18
(299) Pennsylvania   6   22
(307) Fordham   2   26
(311) Hartford   8   22
(40) Oklahoma St.   22   11
(48) Richmond   26   9
(52) Cornell   29   5
(66) Rhode Island   26   10
(84) South Carolina   15   16
(94) St. Louis   23   13

[farmdaddy]

I wouldn't mind a home and home with SIU

[Nukem2]

You're forgetting that the weighting of the factors is different--almost exactly opposite. 

Its rather obvious that the NCAA committe uses the RPI for organizational purposes only.  Your example is a good example why thats the case.  The RPI is hocus pocus.  I would suggest that the committee would reward us far more for playing the LaSalles than it would re Prarie Views.  The committee members are not without some acumen on the subject.

[Brewtown Andy]

Longwood?

I think they're 2 or 3 years into being a D1 school.

[Dr. Blackheart]

Longwood?

Home of the piercing, love Lancers. 

[Mr. Nielsen]

http://www.mvsu.edu/athletics/mens_basketball/schedule.php

Mississippi Valley State are playing alot of big boys!!

http://www.mvsu.edu/athletics/mens_basketball/article.php?entryID=2298

Very good recruiting class coming in.

[Marquette84]

  Its rather obvious that the NCAA committe uses the RPI for organizational purposes only.  Your example is a good example why thats the case.  The RPI is hocus pocus.  I would suggest that the committee would reward us far more for playing the LaSalles than it would re Prarie Views.  The committee members are not without some acumen on the subject.

This is now a completely different point.  I responded to someone who posted that "it would vastly improve our RPI come March" to play teams like LaSalle instead of Prairie View.  This is a common misconception, and with the data clearly shows it.  Playing a team like LaSalle harms our RPI. 

I have to take issue with your point that the committee is going to consider cupcakes rather than RPI.  We beat Georgetown head to head, and finished ahead of them in conference play. The quality of our wins and their wins--both in and out of conference--were nearly identical.  The only substantial difference? Georgetown was 7th in the RPI and we were 50th. 

I think the committee starts with the RPI rank, then looks for reasons to move teams up or down.  There was no reason to move Georgetown down, so they got a seed pretty much in line (within one seed line) of where their RPI suggested they should be placed.   Obviously we moved up because we had a number of good wins.

[bamamarquettefan]

Well, with playing Green Bay this year we are playing every D1 school in the state, so hopefully we can claim the state championship.

Kudos on getting South Dakota on the schedule.  I think that's the kind of opponent everyone wants, and teh foresight to get them under contract last year and then have them go 22-10 was a great move.