Endless Internet Argument - A Summertime Tradition

[Marquette84]

Everyone seems to be assuming that the message from MU regarding recruiting rules was made because of the videotape of Newbill that has been floating around

Does anybody know for sure that the Newbill video was the impetus?

Could it be aimed at MU fans who may have heard that Jamil Wilson was unhappy at Oregon and attempted to encourage him to transfer?

Could it be aimed at MU fans in Indiana who may have been trying to reach Branden Dawson to influence his choice?

Could it be aimed at fans who might be temped to post messages that appear to be aimed at specific recruits telling them that their chances of making the NBA are much better at MU?

Could it be aimed at those attending any of the summer camp sessions who want to provide first hand scoop including conversations they had with 2011 recruits.

The bottom line is that there has been a rush to judgment that the MU message was aimed at bradforster because of the Newbill video--but there are a myriad of other potential concerns all happening at the same time.

[4everwarriors]

To repeat, Newbill was, defacto, recruited over. You don't have to agree with it or like it, but that's what happened. No stuff. Let's put all the other bs scenarios to bed.

[mu-rara]

I've bought merchandise from another major institution for my wife who went there, so now I get their emails.  They send out a large mass email about compliance at least 2 times a year.  I'm surprised MU doesn't do that.

They do send notice to all season ticket holders.

[TJ]

They do send notice to all season ticket holders.

Good to know.  I've never gotten one as a 5-pack ticket buyer that I remember, so that's why I didn't know about it.

From my wife's school I get them simply because I bought her a t-shirt online.

[Lennys Tap]

If MU's greatest coach in the last 30 years, which is the phrase you always use, can do it (Saunders).  Why cant Buzz, whom you hope can be as successful as Cream.   Seems it is acceptable as long as you are getting the pleasure of a reach around.  Yet unacceptable for a guy you did not think should be hired. 

Classic double standard. Your guy's (TC) actions are overlooked or defended. The guy you don't like (Buzz) similar actions cause outrage. Hard to take it seriously under those circumstances.

[TJ]

What BS.  Read my post.  I clearly said I don't know what happened and neither does anybody else on this board.  And we're never going to get the entire story. 

BUT, if someone wants to argue that it's all about Wilson being a better player, there is enough "info" out there to argue that it could just as well be about breaking some stupid no-contact rule. 

The whole point is nobody knows...and I'm NOT saying it's one or the other because, unlike some other people on this board, I realize I don't have all the info to draw any sort of conclusion and I'm not suffiiciently ego-maniacal to think that I do. 

Thanks

I wasn't really directing my post at you.  I just find it a little odd that the major argument against people saying MU did something "wrong" was that we don't have enough info, but now people are promoting this new "ineligible due to violations" argument and until recently no one was calling them out for jumping to conclusions without enough info.

[MUBurrow]

Really?  So a kid could refuse to come to summer workouts, smoke dope, call Buzz and request money be given to his people, have his dad show up at MU functions/practices and insist his son be the number one option, multiple underage drinking tickets, maybe some drunken driving, etc. but we should still honor the NLI?

Those are all things that normally get kids kicked off teams, and de facto out of school.  But for instance, if you wouldn't kick a sophomore off the team for multiple underage drinking tickets or smoking dope then no, i don't believe that you should throw his LOI in the trash for it either.  The point I was trying to make wasn't that LOIs are ironclad, but once they are signed that kid should be a member of the team with all the leeway or lack thereof of any other player.

[ATL MU Warrior]

I wasn't really directing my post at you.  I just find it a little odd that the major argument against people saying MU did something "wrong" was that we don't have enough info, but now people are promoting this new "ineligible due to violations" argument and until recently no one was calling them out for jumping to conclusions without enough info.

I know, and I could have pulled multiple quotes from multiple posters saying essentially the same thing as you...I'm just too lazy/otherwise occupied to do that. 

[ChicosBailBonds]

Classic double standard. Your guy's (TC) actions are overlooked or defended. The guy you don't like (Buzz) similar actions cause outrage. Hard to take it seriously under those circumstances.

No double standard.  Crean shouldn't have done it and neither should Buzz.

That argument by Robby in Indiana is a joke, it's a little kids argument.  "But but but, Billy did it so I should be able to do it".  I'd expect nothing less from Robby \ Canadian Dimes. 

Marquette University SHOULD NOT BE ACCEPTING NATIONAL LETTERS OF INTENT unless we plan on honoring them.  I don't care who the coach is.  PERIOD!  Do what is right.  If MU didn't accept his NLI, this doesn't happen.  If MU honored his NLI, this doesn't happen.  MU chose, instead, to take his NLI and then not honor it, and that's why the media, other schools, and yes....many MU alums....are pissed and taking shots at MU.

Marquette has only themselves to blame.  HONOR YOUR COMMITMENTS or don't make them. 

[bilsu]

Everyone seems to be assuming that the message from MU regarding recruiting rules was made because of the videotape of Newbill that has been floating around

Does anybody know for sure that the Newbill video was the impetus?

Could it be aimed at MU fans who may have heard that Jamil Wilson was unhappy at Oregon and attempted to encourage him to transfer?

Could it be aimed at MU fans in Indiana who may have been trying to reach Branden Dawson to influence his choice?

Could it be aimed at fans who might be temped to post messages that appear to be aimed at specific recruits telling them that their chances of making the NBA are much better at MU?

Could it be aimed at those attending any of the summer camp sessions who want to provide first hand scoop including conversations they had with 2011 recruits.

The bottom line is that there has been a rush to judgment that the MU message was aimed at bradforster because of the Newbill video--but there are a myriad of other potential concerns all happening at the same time.

They can all be a problem. I would never think of talking to a recruit or following him on twitter/facebook, etc. Recruiting should be left 100% to coaches.

[Lennys Tap]

No double standard.  Crean shouldn't have done it and neither should Buzz.

That argument by Robby in Indiana is a joke, it's a little kids argument.  "But but but, Billy did it so I should be able to do it".  I'd expect nothing less from Robby \ Canadian Dimes. 

Marquette University SHOULD NOT BE ACCEPTING NATIONAL LETTERS OF INTENT unless we plan on honoring them.  I don't care who the coach is.  PERIOD!  Do what is right.  If MU didn't accept his NLI, this doesn't happen.  If MU honored his NLI, this doesn't happen.  MU chose, instead, to take his NLI and then not honor it, and that's why the media, other schools, and yes....many MU alums....are pissed and taking shots at MU.

Marquette has only themselves to blame.  HONOR YOUR COMMITMENTS or don't make them. 

I see the representatives of both political parties ripping into the other side whenever there's any suggested impropriety. When it's pointed out that "their guy" did the same thing six months ago they are the first to say "That was wrong too". But when "their guy" was in the cross hairs they defended him.

If you can show me some evidence of your moral outrage towards TC DURING the Saunders incident I'll gladly cede you the moral high ground here. But if defense and acquiescence in one case has turned into shock and disappointment in another it just looks like a political operative reciting talking points.

[ATWizJr]

When it was decided to end the Saunders recruiting,(a mistake, given his play for Duquesne) who did MU recruit "over" him?

[GGGG]

So...you think the AD for compliance showing up on this board and reminding people not to have contact with recruits, make and post videos, etc. has nothing to do with the reason why DJ isn't at Marquette?  Is that just a smoke screen created by the athletic dept. to mess with our minds? 

I don't know the real reason he's here and neither do you.  But based on what we know, the violation is real, right? 

I think they showed up here after the NLI was yanked and we wanted Bradforster to interview him.  As bma said, if it really were an issue, they would have showed up here months ago.

I further think that people *want* to believe the "violation issue" to make themselves feel better about what the truth really is....we recruited over a guy.

[Litehouse]

When it was decided to end the Saunders recruiting,(a mistake, given his play for Duquesne) who did MU recruit "over" him?

Saunders wasn't technically "recruited over" by any particular player.  We were over signed with the rumor being Crean thought DJ was going pro after that year, which obviously didn't happen.  We were short one spot and Saunders got the short straw.  Whether it was the academic reasons we were given, his legal issues, or a last-in/first-out policy, who knows.  Either way, the decision wasn't based on basketball ability, because we kept Hazel and let Saunders go.

[mu_hilltopper]

When it was decided to end the Saunders recruiting,(a mistake, given his play for Duquesne) who did MU recruit "over" him?

IIRC (a big if) .. the issue with scholarships that year was Dom James and whether he was going to be back.  Once it was apparent he wouldn't be drafted, MU needed to vote someone off the island.

I further think that people *want* to believe the "violation issue" to make themselves feel better about what the truth really is....we recruited over a guy.

DING DING DING!

[ATL MU Warrior]

I further think that people *want* to believe the "violation issue" to make themselves feel better about what the truth really is....we recruited over a guy.

Well, believe it or not, I for one don't feel all that bad about it so that's not my motivation at all.  Good theory though.

[mu_hilltopper]

I felt bad until I found out Jamil Wilson was bringing us to the Final Four.  Now I feel great.

[ATWizJr]

Saunders wasn't technically "recruited over" by any particular player.  We were over signed with the rumor being Crean thought DJ was going pro after that year, which obviously didn't happen.  We were short one spot and Saunders got the short straw.  Whether it was the academic reasons we were given, his legal issues, or a last-in/first-out policy, who knows.  Either way, the decision wasn't based on basketball ability, because we kept Hazel and let Saunders go.

Clears that up...thanks.

[ATL MU Warrior]

I felt bad until I found out Jamil Wilson was bringing us to the Final Four.  Now I feel great.

exactly

[PE8983]

At least Newbill knew in late June (maybe some time beforehand).  Saunders didn't know until right before school started.  James withdrew from the draft a while before it took place in late June.  TC could have cleared up that whole scenario long before he did.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

I felt bad until I found out Jamil Wilson was bringing us to the Final Four.  Now I feel great.

+10000

Winning cures everything.

[reinko]

+10000

Winning cures everything.

We can only hope for a Southern Miss/Marquette match up in the NCAA title game in 2012, with MU winning, but DJ scoring 78 points with 35 boards, and 15 blocks.  Him then getting taken first the NBA Draft, sign a huge contract, bang a bunch of super models, find love with a special someone, have a bunch of kids, and not go bankrupt by the age of 41.   

[MU B2002]

We can only hope for a Southern Miss/Marquette match up in the NCAA title game in 2012, with MU winning, but DJ scoring 78 points with 35 boards, and 15 blocks.  Him then getting taken first the NBA Draft, sign a huge contract, bang a bunch of super models, find love with a special someone, have a bunch of kids, and not go bankrupt by the age of 41.   

Let's get real Reinko...  Find Love???

[reinko]

Let's get real Reinko...  Find Love???

Maybe he can buy love?  It ended up workin' out for Ronald Miller.

[Dawson Rental]

4ever, I'm sorry to inform you we've found and older and grouchier Old Timer to replace you on MUScoop.  We wish you the best and will work with you to find a new message board to be old and grouchy on.  I hear the Southern Miss message board may have some openings.

And exactly why do you think that you and 4everwarriors are on a first name basis?