Buzz can make the call

[RubyWiscy]

This thread is not about Newbill, although the situation provides the latest example of my point. This thread is about Buzz and his ability to make the tough call to help  the program move forward.

By definition a tough call is open to criticism and that is fine.  I'm not arguing with any points made here.  Buzz should get the criticism, but he should also get the praise for upgrading the talent level of players at MU.  It is not a pretty business, and blood does get shed, however, can anyone say the program is not improving at least from a recruitment standpoint. Certainly performance on the court and wins, tournament success still needs to be proven, but I am more confident that MU will get its share of top players now that Buzz is in charge than I have been with any other coach.

The point of the thread is that Buzz is a leader and willing to take the heat to make MU better.

[3Mer]

It is not a pretty business, and blood does get shed, however, can anyone say the program is not improving at least from a recruitment standpoint. Certainly performance on the court and wins, tournament success still needs to be proven, but I am more confident that MU will get its share of top players now that Buzz is in charge than I have been with any other coach.

Success is great, but at what cost?  How much "blood getting shed" is acceptable?  Where's line and has Buzz crossed it?

My problem with the "If-you-criticize-Buzz-you-must-be-an-MU-hater" crowd is the end justifies the means.

I don't want to see my alma mater turn into Kentucky.  I don't want to see my coach turn into Bob Huggins.  I root against those kinds of win-at-all-costs teams/coaches because they are despicable.

The slippery slope starts with looking the other way when a kid gets $crewed over simply because it makes the team more competitive.

[The Lens]

Success is great, but at what cost?  How much "blood getting shed" is acceptable?  Where's line and has Buzz crossed it?

My problem with the "If-you-criticize-Buzz-you-must-be-an-MU-hater" crowd is the end justifies the means.

I don't want to see my alma mater turn into Kentucky.  I don't want to see my coach turn into Bob Huggins (Huggins is a lot better than people realize).  I root against those kinds of win-at-all-costs teams/coaches because they are despicable.

The slippery slope starts with looking the other way when a kid gets $crewed over simply because it makes the team more competitive.

+1 (except the Huggins stuff)

And I'm a Buzz guy.

[kmwtrucks]

I think we would all agree we do not want to become Cincy of a few years back.  Have we done that yet?  A guy named Little on one of those teams ducked taped his roomate to a chair and held him at knife point becuase he felt he owed him money.  Buzz seems to make sure his player's go to class, Graduate, work hard to develop as player's, Look how much (Wes, Lazar, and Jimmy have improved under him) and also be good as MU students and Milwaukee residents, I have heard they make allot of appearences in the community and to a person every one that has come in contact with some of the player's have all had great things to say about them as people.  I think their is much more to the story with with DJ than we will ever know, but I would agree that I'm not 100% comforatable with how it played out.  Buzz is a yound coach and is not immune from making a few bad or questionable decision, and all I can ask is he learns from them.  If I had to choose between a having MU's Coach make 90% decisions I like and be ranked each year and go to the NCAA's and a coach that makes 95% decisions I like and finish in the bottom couple of the Big East every year I know what I would choose.  I think people are underestimating how hard Buzz's job is and how close every coach outside of the top 5 are to failing.  

[RubyWiscy]

Success is great, but at what cost?  How much "blood getting shed" is acceptable?  Where's line and has Buzz crossed it?

Good questions.  Exactly why Buzz and any coach needs to be watched.  However, you need to judge people in the game by the same standards.  Were JMay or Mbakwe any less ethical than Buzz for not honoring their signed NLIs? Did Buzz actually do Roseboro and Newbill a favor by sending them packing before they wasted a year of eligibility at MU or was Crean more ethical for keeping players around and "encouraging" them to leave after they had spent a year? If Buzz doesn't win is it ethical for the school to fire him even if he has a signed contract?

So many questions. So elusive the answers.

[Henry Sugar]

+1 (except the Huggins stuff)

And I'm a Buzz guy.

Count me in this camp too.

Also, this is the kind of thing that makes me look at the "Circles in LA" video a little bit differently. 

[PE8983]

"I don't want to see my alma mater turn into Kentucky.  I don't want to see my coach turn into Bob Huggins.  I root against those kinds of win-at-all-costs teams/coaches because they are despicable."

God, now we're UK with Bob Huggins coaching...  Could you overblow this situation any further, and be any more dramatic?

[Marquette84]

Chico Counter
Posts on thread: 4
Incorrect/Illogical Statements: 4
"Glass Half Empty": 3
Crean mentions: 2


Who had these numbers on the prediction board?

Can you explain what you found illogical or incorrect about Chico's posts?

[ZiggysFryBoy]

didn't monarch call stan laws?  has it been said that buzz didn't call DJ directly, and had monarch, who did the recruiting, to call the coach?

[Lennys Tap]

Chico Counter
Posts on thread: 4
Incorrect/Illogical Statements: 4
"Glass Half Empty": 3
Crean mentions: 2


Who had these numbers on the prediction board?

Las Vegas has currently taken the over/unders on all these categories "off the board. Heavy action on all the "overs".

[GGGG]

Good questions.  Exactly why Buzz and any coach needs to be watched.  However, you need to judge people in the game by the same standards.  Were JMay or Mbakwe any less ethical than Buzz for not honoring their signed NLIs?

Mbakwe and JMay both honored their NLIs.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

"I don't want to see my alma mater turn into Kentucky.  I don't want to see my coach turn into Bob Huggins.  I root against those kinds of win-at-all-costs teams/coaches because they are despicable."

God, now we're UK with Bob Huggins coaching...  Could you overblow this situation any further, and be any more dramatic?

If Buzz goes on and has a 100% graduation rate and has a long career at MU, this will be a small pimple.

But, what if this isn't a pimple? What if it's cancer?

I'm sure Calipari defenders aren't terrible people. They just love their team, so they rationalize everything.

"He had 1 problem up at UMASS, but he's a great coach." (memphis fan in 2001)


Let's be clear: I'm not saying Buzz is anywhere near coach cal's level... but true character is revealed over time. We'll see if this is a pimple or cancer.

Like Navin always says, we'll probably know in 5 years.

[3Mer]

God, now we're UK with Bob Huggins coaching...  Could you overblow this situation any further, and be any more dramatic?

I apologize for being overly dramatic.  Clearly, from the dearth of posts on this situation, I'm the only one experiencing a bit of trepidation.

[ATWizJr]

If Buzz goes on and has a 100% graduation rate and has a long career at MU, this will be a small pimple.

But, what if this isn't a pimple? What if it's cancer?

I'm sure Calipari defenders aren't terrible people. They just love their team, so they rationalize everything.

"He had 1 problem up at UMASS, but he's a great coach." (memphis fan in 2001)


Let's be clear: I'm not saying Buzz is anywhere near coach cal's level... but true character is revealed over time. We'll see if this is a pimple or cancer.

Like Navin always says, we'll probably know in 5 years.

We get it chicken little.  The sky is falling.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

We get it chicken little.  The sky is falling.

Oh christ.

I didn't say it was... but let's not just ignore everything and call anybody who expresses concern anti-MU.

If this is an isolated incident, then no big deal. If this amount of roster turnover occurs year after year, I'm going to be concerned.

I'll call this a speeding ticket. 1 is no big deal. Lots and lots of tickets can be an indication that something bigger is going on.

Sky is not falling, but I'm not blind.

[NavinRJohnson]

Like Navin always says, we'll probably know in 5 years.

I don't always say that, other than to point out the absurdity of those who claim they don't judge a coach for 3-5 years, and subsequently make judgments every chance they get.

[Blackhat]

Why again is "roster turnover" a no-no?

Everybody was up in arms over JUCO commits too until they realized JUCO's aren't actually the devil incarnate, they can be outstanding people who go to class and graduate too.

[PE8983]

Being disappointed in the Newbill situation is one thing, but comparing MU to UK, and Buzz to Calipari and Huggins, is completely over the top.

This board is completely out of control over this incident.  It seems alot of people who don't like Buzz are coming out of the woodwork just to get their shots in.  

IMO, the Victor Rudd announcement today that he picked USF over MU and a few other schools is further indicative that someone was going prep like Buzz said a long time ago.  Somebody was most likely coming in, whether it was Wilson, Rudd, or someone else.   Wilson just happened to be the best option.  There wasn't one action made by Newbill that indicated that he was intending on being at MU for the second summer session.  

[Blackhat]

Dog days of summer bring out bored "men" and their mud slinging/gossip chats.

[ATWizJr]

Oh christ.

I didn't say it was... but let's not just ignore everything and call anybody who expresses concern anti-MU.

If this is an isolated incident, then no big deal. If this amount of roster turnover occurs year after year, I'm going to be concerned.

I'll call this a speeding ticket. 1 is no big deal. Lots and lots of tickets can be an indication that something bigger is going on.

Sky is not falling, but I'm not blind.

A speeding ticket....OK Officer 2002. 

[warriorbill]

Up until now, I've been happy with what Buzz has brought to the program, but from the looks of this situation, I have to say I'm disappointed. Maybe something will come to light to change my mind, but as of now, I think what Buzz did was wrong. I don't really care what the weirdo UW trolls have to say, but I hope we strive to be better and have more integrity than the win at all cost schools. If all you care about is winning, they might as well get paid and be professionals. 

[Lennys Tap]

I don't always say that, other than to point out the absurdity of those who claim they don't judge a coach for 3-5 years, and subsequently make judgments every chance they get.

Bingo. I'd guess Chicos has at minimum a couple of thousand posts "judging" Buzz since he was hired and the vast majority of them are decidedly negative. He thinks that when he adds a "but I really like Buzz" or a "I think Buzz is doing a great job so far" to a post ripping him it evens things out. Just as he thinks adding a "sure TC can be a jerk" to a soliloquey calling for TC's canonization it proves he's no longer gaga over his boy.

This whole DJ Newbill situation is exhibit A. Don't get me wrong. Buzz certainly owns blame here. Offering a scholarship you may not have (even if the recipient is made aware) is the wrong way to do business. But at least the athletic department and Buzz are admitting it's their decision that DJ won't be coming to MU. Crean did the same thing with Damian Saunders in 2006, then washed his hands ala Pontius Pilate as he had the admissions office do his dirty work for him. That Chicos is apoplectic over Buzz "ruining a kids life" (can you say hyperbole) but unquestioning of TC says it all.

Again, I'm not saying that because Crean was as big or a bigger creep in a similiar situation it excuses Buzz. And while I happen to think outrage is an over the top reaction in this case I won't quibble with those who honestly feel it (MUSF, 3 Mers, etc). I won't, however, accept it from someone who didn't even take pause over the whole Saunders fiasco.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

A speeding ticket....OK Officer 2002. 

Dude, I'm just trying to make an analogy to clarify my point.

I don't think the sky is falling, but if situations like this arise over and over again, it will be a sign that there are issues at MU.

I like Buzz, but there is nothing wrong with being disappointed in how this happened.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

I don't always say that, other than to point out the absurdity of those who claim they don't judge a coach for 3-5 years, and subsequently make judgments every chance they get.

I know bud, just teasing.

[ATWizJr]

Dude, I'm just trying to make an analogy to clarify my point.

I don't think the sky is falling, but if situations like this arise over and over again, it will be a sign that there are issues at MU.

I like Buzz, but there is nothing wrong with being disappointed in how this happened.

Not to put too fine a point on it, but that is exactly my point; before getting too alarmed, why don't we wait to see if situations like this arise over and over again. 

And we don't even really know what happened in this situation!