Philly.com article on Newbill

[mugrad99]

Generally one can explain away one bad marriage. But multiple bad marriages, you need to look in the mirror.

I am just not understanding why you dump 2 kids even before first day of official practice starts. What happened to the theory of developing kids?

[Nukem2]

It's not necessarily about taking sides.

At best, Buzz and staff are not communicating "their side" effectively enough.  This makes at least three different parties that feel like they were mislead or lied to by the MU staff.  That is a problem.

The odds are quite high against the possibility of Buzz or the MU AD making any comments on the situation.  Just not going to happen.  Lets move on as no one here has the facts nor will we.  Is it Octobeer yet?

[MUSF]

The odds are quite high against the possibility of Buzz or the MU AD making any comments on the situation.  Just not going to happen.  Lets move on as no one here has the facts nor will we.  Is it Octobeer yet?

I wasn't saying that MU should be explaining their side better to us.  I'm saying that they should have done a better job of explaining their side to the Newbill camp.  Maybe that would have prevented this from spinning wildly out of control.

[PE8983]

"I am just not understanding why you dump 2 kids even before first day of official practice starts..."

This "dumping" of Roseboro is getting old.  Why in the world would a coach who is already short of players, in danger of not being able to practice 5 on 5, send a player packing at the start of school?  You can't get another player to replace him.  You could always push him out at the end of the year if you're so convinced he was pushed out.  You would get a practice player for the year, and who knows, maybe he would develop during the year to the point where maybe you want to keep him.

What is the advantage of the coach to send him packing at that time???  Unless he was going to be a team cancer, this was only going to help Roseboro.  BTW - I am not implying that he should have been recruited to begin with.

[mugrad99]

"IThis "dumping" of Roseboro is getting old.  Why in the world would a coach who is already short of players, in danger of not being able to practice 5 on 5, send a player packing at the start of school? 

He just shaved $40,000 from the budget

But seriously, do you not think Buzz had the old "heart to heart" with Roseboro, informing him playing time would be zero?  Doing this even before day one of practice? Why would he even have this conversation?Honor your d@mn committments.

[ATWizJr]

He just shaved $40,000 from the budget

But seriously, do you not think Buzz had the old "heart to heart" with Roseboro, informing him playing time would be zero?  Doing this even before day one of practice? Why would he even have this conversation?Honor your d@mn committments.

How do you know what conversation he had with Roseboro?  Maybe he told the kid that they had overestimated his ability and although they would honor the schollie, his playing time would be minimal.  Actually, the kindest thing you can do is to level with the player so that they know exactly what the situation is.  With all the facts, perhaps Roseboro opted out so that he could find a situation more in line with his ability.

[mugrad99]

How do you know what conversation he had with Roseboro?  Maybe he told the kid that they had overestimated his ability and although they would honor the schollie, his playing time would be minimal.  Actually, the kindest thing you can do is to level with the player so that they know exactly what the situation is.  With all the facts, perhaps Roseboro opted out so that he could find a situation more in line with his ability.

All of this happened BEFORE any official practice. Buzz had not even worked with him yet. Kind of premature, don't you think?

[Nukem2]

I wasn't saying that MU should be explaining their side better to us.  I'm saying that they should have done a better job of explaining their side to the Newbill camp.  Maybe that would have prevented this from spinning wildly out of control.

Perhaps the Newbill "camp" was not on the same page.  In any event, its still all speculation whatever lack of communication, mis-understandings  or whtever that took place.  Lets all move on.  Can't keep pondering the imponderable.

[MUSF]

Perhaps the Newbill "camp" was not on the same page.  In any event, its still all speculation whatever lack of communication, mis-understandings  or whtever that took place.  Lets all move on.  Can't keep pondering the imponderable.

It's not "imponderable."  Three instances of "lack of communication, mis-understandings or whatever that took place," in two years at the helm is an indicator of a problem.  Now, that problem could be as simple as poor communication or it could be as bad as dishonesty.  That, I won't speculate on because we don't have the facts, but don't tell us there's nothing to see here. 

[ATWizJr]

All of this happened BEFORE any official practice. Buzz had not even worked with him yet. Kind of premature, don't you think?

I believe Roseboro had been in town and playing with his potential teammates when it became apparent that he was not BE material. 

[PE8983]

"He just shaved $40,000 from the budget"

Since you put this in teal, I assume you are being sarcastic.  If you're not, why don't we just shut down the whole program and save ourselves a whole lot more.  BTW - Buzz's job is to field the basketball team he can.  It's not the university budget he's concerned about.  Obviously, he had a sit down with Roseboro and probably told him he was not ever going to get much PT on his team.

But again, I ask - if Buzz wronged the kid, what's the advantage for Buzz to get him off the team at that point in time???  None, unless he was a cancer.  Buzz errored in bringing him in.

[Litehouse]

All of this happened BEFORE any official practice. Buzz had not even worked with him yet. Kind of premature, don't you think?

Roseboro was on campus playing with the team.  There were plenty of reports from the scrimmages that he was in way over his head by that point.  I remember Rosiak even had some posts on his blog about the open gyms and Roseboro being overmatched.

[Pakuni]

"I am just not understanding why you dump 2 kids even before first day of official practice starts..."

This "dumping" of Roseboro is getting old.  Why in the world would a coach who is already short of players, in danger of not being able to practice 5 on 5, send a player packing at the start of school?  You can't get another player to replace him.  You could always push him out at the end of the year if you're so convinced he was pushed out.  You would get a practice player for the year, and who knows, maybe he would develop during the year to the point where maybe you want to keep him.

What is the advantage of the coach to send him packing at that time???  Unless he was going to be a team cancer, this was only going to help Roseboro.  BTW - I am not implying that he should have been recruited to begin with.

This.

Fact of he matter is, Buzz did Roseboro a huge favor by letting him go/nudging him out when he did.
It's also fair to say he ultimately did the kid a disfavor by accepting a commitment.
But that mistake having been made, it quickly became apparent he was not, nor was he likely to become, a Big East player. That being the case, Buzz had two options:
1. Let Roseboro rot on the bench for a season, burn a year of eligibility, then transfer at the end of the year, after which he would have to sit for yet another season before he could actually play a game and have only three years left.

2. Let/encourage him to leave when he did, allowing the kid to hook onto a program and have the opportunity to play right away (and for four whole seasons) rather than ride the pines for two years.

Buzz chose the latter, even though it opened him up to far more criticism and ultimately could have hurt the team (certainly left the team shorthanded). But from the player's perspective, it was far better than the likely alternative.

Again, giving the kid a scholie was a mistake. The way he let him go was not, and ultimately benefited Roseboro far more than it benefited Marquette basketball.
So, please, no more crying for "The Beast."

As for this business about him being misled, give me a break. Part of every coach's recruiting pitch is to sell a kid on an opportunity to play. And, I'd venture to guess, they're all very sincere in making that pitch. Coaches, after all, don't recruit players whom they think will have a long and successful career as a bench warmer. If a coach didn't think a kid had a chance to play, the coach isn't recruiting that kid.
Of course, coaches make mistakes, and that's what happened with Roseboro. The same could be said for dozens of kids in dozens of programs every year.

[Warhawk Warrior]

Whiners need to suck it up.  Not all is fair, nor all is known.  Such is the rule of life except for the dream land of liberals

[ChicosBailBonds]

Whiners need to suck it up.  Not all is fair, nor all is known.  Such is the rule of life except for the dream land of liberals

I'm far from a liberal, but I believe in honoring commitments.  This isn't hard or complex.  It's called DOING THE RIGHT THING, something both liberals and conservatives should both strive for.

[Warhawk Warrior]

In many of these cases the facts remain unpublished to protect the interests of the player.  Grades, unethical behavior, lack of commitment are things that the universities typically don't divulge in order to not disrupt the kid's future chances at success.  Saving face is important for both sides so the less that is acknowledged, the better.

[Pakuni]

I'm far from a liberal, but I believe in honoring commitments.  This isn't hard or complex.  It's called DOING THE RIGHT THING, something both liberals and conservatives should both strive for.

The problem with your DO THE RIGHT THING mantra is that if Newbill was a willing participant in this, than nothing WRONG was done.
It's not the best way of handling recruiting, and I'd like to never see it happen again. But there's nothing WRONG, unethical or immoral about it.

[StillAWarrior]

The problem with your DO THE RIGHT THING mantra is that if Newbill was a willing participant in this, than nothing WRONG was done.
It's not the best way of handling recruiting, and I'd like to never see it happen again. But there's nothing WRONG, unethical or immoral about it.

I've highlighted the key here.  I agree with you.  I'm inclined to believe that Newbill was a willing participant because that version makes more sense to me and I want to trust Buzz.  Others are inclined to believe that Newbill was not a willing participant because that version makes more sense to them and they trust reports coming from Newbill.

[CrazyEcho]

I've highlighted the key here.  I agree with you.  I'm inclined to believe that Newbill was a willing participant because that version makes more sense to me and I want to trust Buzz.  Others are inclined to believe that Newbill was not a willing participant because that version makes more sense to them and they trust reports coming from Newbill.

I'm in 100% agreement with that as well. 

[cheebs09]

One of the Phillycoach quotes that really struck me was when he talked about when he was fired from Strawberry Mansion. He said, "The principal fired me because she was jealous of my success." This is the guy that is supposedly a mentor to DJ. I don't know much about what happened in that incident, but I think it had something to do with that game DJ scored 64 and they killed a team. Whatever the real reason, that kind of sounded like childish comment and blaming the other person for being let go. Now if DJ looks up to that or Laws is in his ear about how to handle this, it isn't surprising that he is kind of taking Buzz down with him so to speak. He got rejected and wants to make it seem like he was wronged in a way. Maybe he wants to save face with his peers and seem like he was wronged when really a better player came along and he knew it was a possibility in the contingency plan.


Also, why do an exclusive with this brad forster guy? He has an article basically about him by Goodman I believe. Why not go there with your story if you want the masses to hear it? That's a much bigger stage than Forster posting it here. I just think its his mentor and him wanting to stir up some drama and keep his name relevent and save some face so that other schools don't look down on him.

Edit: I was thinking of the Rivals article, not Goodman.

[Litehouse]

This Forster exclusive is going to be a train wreck.  The fact the coach let it slip that DJ never sent in his application shows he doesn't have a good filter.  That's the single most damning piece of evidence against DJ in this whole fiasco and it should have never been public info.

[Avenue Commons]

The kid didn't even fill out an application. Did he think he was going to show up on the first day of classes and walk in? Something is not adding up.

I've been off the board for a while and just walked into this "clean." I agree, something isn't right. Why didn't he fill out an app or do the essay? Sounds like red flags and then MU pulled the plug.

Good luck to the kid.

[GGGG]

I've highlighted the key here.  I agree with you.  I'm inclined to believe that Newbill was a willing participant because that version makes more sense to me and I want to trust Buzz.  Others are inclined to believe that Newbill was not a willing participant because that version makes more sense to them and they trust reports coming from Newbill.

It's more than being a willing participant or not.  Willing participants can still be taken advantage of.

[Dawson Rental]

No...IWB's comments are as close as we are going to get to MU's side of the facts.

+1  IBW's function here is to be the "inside source" who can unofficially put out the story from the University's point of view since MU cannot itself put out an official statement going into that type of detail for PR (and confidentially?) reasons.

[ATWizJr]

I've highlighted the key here.  I agree with you.  I'm inclined to believe that Newbill was a willing participant because that version makes more sense to me and I want to trust Buzz.  Others are inclined to believe that Newbill was not a willing participant because that version makes more sense to them and they trust reports coming from Newbill.

I think IWB's version is highly probable,  makes sense and unless there are some additional facts, not emotional reactions, the case is closed for me.