Chicos and Sultan of South Wayne.....

[duanewade]

Xavier has been getting some very nice recruiting classes even though its stuck in the Atlantic 10. Memphis seems to still recruit (ahem) well as a member of CUSA. What if all the non-BCS basketball powers linked up?  Good recruiting classes would not be a fantasy.  Jeez, I thought you had faith in Buzz.

Only thing I want to correct you on the above is Memphis buys their recruits....my friend's nephew knows all the Chicago coaches and says Slick Rick and Calipari are two of the most dirty coaches in the business and I don't think their new coach is such an amazing recruiter that he was able to sign the best class in the country in spite of being in his first year as a head coach.....I think it had more to do with the money they were able to pay their handlers for their commitments. 

I agree with Chicos post the other day that basketball is twice as corrupt as football and I also agree with Cottington is the X factor in all of this (see we agree on something)......Steve C. he was smart enough to push for a relatively unknown coach named Buzz Williams to succeed Crean in spite of probably being in the minority from those also having their say in the decision.  Maybe he and other Big East brass are working behind the scenes on something ingenious that they will unveil shortly while playing the public with a Ali ropa dope routine but have a hidden right hook in their back pocket.  Once again hope is my best ally right now. 

[ChicosBailBonds]

Only thing I want to correct you on the above is Memphis buys their recruits....my friend's nephew knows all the Chicago coaches and says Slick Rick and Calipari are two of the most dirty coaches in the business and I don't think their new coach is such an amazing recruiter that he was able to sign the best class in the country in spite of being in his first year as a head coach.....I think it had more to do with the money they were able to pay their handlers for their commitments. 

I agree with Chicos post the other day that basketball is twice as corrupt as football and I also agree with Cottington is the X factor in all of this (see we agree on something)......Steve C. he was smart enough to push for a relatively unknown coach named Buzz Williams to succeed Crean in spite of probably being in the minority from those also having their say in the decision.  Maybe he and other Big East brass are working behind the scenes on something ingenious that they will unveil shortly while playing the public with a Ali ropa dope routine but have a hidden right hook in their back pocket.  Once again hope is my best ally right now. 

The reality is that Buzz is our head coach because Tom Crean pushed him hard on MU.  Said he was the guy and MU should hire him.

[marquette99]

Yes, but as pointed out on cracked sidewalks, 94 percent of 4-stars chose either a bcs school or memphis last year, and every 5-star did.  Of the other 283 non-bcs schools, xavier and four others got ONE 4istar recruit and 278 got ZERO 4-stars.  A GREAT recruiting class for a non-bcs school is one with one 4-star recruit, unless we can repeat memphis magic.

Chicos insights are great - and please keep them coming.  However, everyone is looking at the elephant from a different angle.  Chicos sees the overwhelming force behind the guys with the bucs for tv deals, and should keep posting, but I also see potential other compnents from the political arena and egos in different regions of the country that are equally true.

Texas ego, us senators who will get a lot of votes if they stop their state schools from being left out, and athletic directors with recent tv deals who still don't buy that they can get a better deal dividing revenue 16 ways are all other factors.

[GGGG]

Yes, but as pointed out on cracked sidewalks, 94 percent of 4-stars chose either a bcs school or memphis last year, and every 5-star did.  Of the other 283 non-bcs schools, xavier and four others got ONE 4istar recruit and 278 got ZERO 4-stars.  A GREAT recruiting class for a non-bcs school is one with one 4-star recruit, unless we can repeat memphis magic.

Chicos insights are great - and please keep them coming.  However, everyone is looking at the elephant from a different angle.  Chicos sees the overwhelming force behind the guys with the bucs for tv deals, and should keep posting, but I also see potential other compnents from the political arena and egos in different regions of the country that are equally true.

Texas ego, us senators who will get a lot of votes if they stop their state schools from being left out, and athletic directors with recent tv deals who still don't buy that they can get a better deal dividing revenue 16 ways are all other factors.

It really is going to hinge on what Texas and A&M do this week.  If they both pledge to stay in the B12, then things stabilize as far as membership.  The problem is that the BE will continue to see the gap widen when it comes to resoruces.

[GGGG]

As a member of a basketball only conference we won't get anywhere near the same revenue from TV as the BCS guys, but we'll still get recruits, we'll have being the "top dogs" on campus to use as a selling point, we'll be okay.  

I agree with this.  I think if we end up in a league with Georgetown, Villanova, St. John's, Xavier, etc. we will be fine.  Clearly the premier "non-BCS" basketball league.  Is it going to be harder?  Yes.  But we have great tradition, wonderful facilities and an up-and-coming coach.  The last time we got to the final four it was as a member of CUSA.  We would be able to compete in a new conference.

And honestly, I go back and forth on this.  Being 1 of 10 or 12 schools in a conferece like the one above may actually be preferable than 1 out of 20 in some enormous BE conference.

[chapman]

I agree with this.  I think if we end up in a league with Georgetown, Villanova, St. John's, Xavier, etc. we will be fine.  Clearly the premier "non-BCS" basketball league.  Is it going to be harder?  Yes.  But we have great tradition, wonderful facilities and an up-and-coming coach.  The last time we got to the final four it was as a member of CUSA.  We would be able to compete in a new conference.

And honestly, I go back and forth on this.  Being 1 of 10 or 12 schools in a conferece like the one above may actually be preferable than 1 out of 20 in some enormous BE conference.

As a fan I've got mixed feelings.  I think a conference like this could be great to compete in - a chance to compete for a championship instead of trying to be one of the best three or four and having it be a crapshoot from there, keeping it at 12-14 teams lets you actually have rivalries with some schools rather than traveling to Florida every other year, and many are very similar to us.  But in a worst-case scenario I can type "ESPN3.com" into my browser to see any game, and have another game between members of our conference on ESPN as well.  SportsCenter goes down the line of the BE slate before anything else during the season.  It's a far cry from being in the best conference ever assembled. 
But if you take that list of non-BCS schools getting four star recruits, how many are going to turn down competition in a league with Georgetown, Villanova, MU, and Xavier?  That league will land some solid talent – maybe not current Big East level where a three star recruit is practically a disappointment, but it'll look a lot more like a BCS conference than the Missouri Valley.  It's up to the schools that focus on basketball, have a tradition of basketball success, and heavy basketball investment to compete from there, and the best ones should without a doubt be able to compete with the best BCS schools.  One suggestion for keeping that "Basketball BCS" status is to avoid the Old Dominions and VCUs of the world like the last CS post suggested - keep it at 12-14 and get schools rooted in deep basketball tradition that are strong pieces of a national brand.  If one or two Big East football schools get shafted and land in the MAC for football they're worth keeping around.  Otherwise don't make it a free-for-all or try to get up to 16 just because the current Big East is.  I'd put the short list at Xavier, Butler, Temple, Dayton, St. Joe's, and Richmond, and take 4-6.  It might be in the best interest of the conference to keep the schedule at 16 games, giving some flexibility to schedule BCS schools to keep the competition up and keep the schools as part of the national scene.

[Blackhat]

The reality is that Buzz is our head coach because Tom Crean pushed him hard on MU.  Said he was the guy and MU should hire him.

LOL.  Revisionist history to the fullest.   That has very little to do with why Buzz Williams was hired.

 Cottingham had his man from the get go because Buzz was influential in landing talent and had shown Cottingham he was a tireless worker.  

Many people who knew college b-ball knew Buzz was a rising star which is why me and a few others on message boards were pushing Buzz  long before Crean said anything on the matter.

And believe me Cottingham wasn't staking his job on the opinions of the man who just burned him and us.  

Makes me question your objectivity when you credit Crean with the hiring of Buzz..... I'm guessing if Buzz turned out to be a bum you wouldn't have made such a nutso claim. 

[Lennys Tap]

The reality is that Buzz is our head coach because Tom Crean pushed him hard on MU.  Said he was the guy and MU should hire him.

The reality is that Tom Crean made himself persona non grata with the athletic department and the administration because of the way he left. The myth that Tom Crean was in any way, shape or form responsible for Buzz getting the job was made up and planted by the Tom Crean pr machine. It was Tom Crean being Tom Crean, saying "Look at me. I'm important. They still love me and listen to me at Marquette. And I'm still helpin' them out because that's who I am." How can you fall for this BS? The last person that Fr wild or Steve Cottingham wanted to consult regarding the head coach opening (or anything else) was and is Tom Crean.

[ChicosBailBonds]

LOL.  Revisionist history to the fullest.   That has very little to do with why Buzz Williams was hired.

 Cottingham had his man from the get go because Buzz was influential in landing talent and had shown Cottingham he was a tireless worker.  

Many people who knew college b-ball knew Buzz was a rising star which is why me and a few others on message boards were pushing Buzz  long before Crean said anything on the matter.

And believe me Cottingham wasn't staking his job on the opinions of the man who just burned him and us.  

Makes me question your objectivity when you credit Crean with the hiring of Buzz..... I'm guessing if Buzz turned out to be a bum you wouldn't have made such a nutso claim.  

Follow the decision making...Crean leaves for IU and tells Buzz to stay back at MU as possible candidate for MU....MU goes after two outside coaches and fails in 24 hours...Dick Strong ultimately pays for coach of MU....Dick Strong and TC communicate during process.........

You don't have to believe that Cottingham wasn't taking opinions of the man that just burned him.....you better damn well believe he was taking the opinions of the man that would pay Buzz's salary....follow the money boys, follow the timeline...there's a reason why Buzz didn't go to IU in that first week.....or, just ask a few well placed sources.  LOL

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Follow the decision making...Crean leaves for IU and tells Buzz to stay back at MU as possible candidate for MU....MU goes after two outside coaches and fails in 24 hours...Dick Strong ultimately pays for coach of MU....Dick Strong and TC communicate during process.........

You don't have to believe that Cottingham wasn't taking opinions of the man that just burned him.....you better damn well believe he was taking the opinions of the man that would pay Buzz's salary....follow the money boys, follow the timeline...there's a reason why Buzz didn't go to IU in that first week.....or, just ask a few well placed sources.  LOL

You might be right... I have no idea.

But who cares?? No need to even bring it up.

Let's all agree to move beyond these things (TC). It's going to degenerate into the same garbage again...

[Lennys Tap]

Follow the decision making...Crean leaves for IU and tells Buzz to stay back at MU as possible candidate for MU....MU goes after two outside coaches and fails in 24 hours...Dick Strong ultimately pays for coach of MU....Dick Strong and TC communicate during process.........

You don't have to believe that Cottingham wasn't taking opinions of the man that just burned him.....you better damn well believe he was taking the opinions of the man that would pay Buzz's salary....follow the money boys, follow the timeline...there's a reason why Buzz didn't go to IU in that first week.....or, just ask a few well placed sources.  LOL

LOL. You spend months ripping Cottingham for making a "risky" decision when people like Lowery, Keno Davis and Brownell were available. But when it turns out to be an inspired decision, Tom Crean becomes the one responsible. WOW. LOL, indeed.

[Blackhat]

Cottingham sent Buzz to meet with Strong just before he announced Buzz as HC...is the timeline.   It's apparent Strong wasn't sold on Buzz until after the meeting, hence the need for a meeting in the first place.

Chicos proves to be a..  with this thread.  

Crean was busy touring Bloomington in a limo when Cottingham was meeting with Buzz.

[Hards Alumni]

Cottingham sent Buzz to meet with Strong just before he announced Buzz as HC...is the timeline.   It's apparent Strong wasn't sold on Buzz until after the meeting, hence the need for a meeting in the first place.

Chicos proves to be a ... with this thread.  

Crean was busy touring Bloomington in a limo when Cottingham was meeting with Buzz.

yikes, have fun in the timeout room.

[Blackhat]

yikes, have fun in the timeout room.

off your meds, old man??

[Hards Alumni]

off your meds, old man??

I just wouldn't be using the words you did.

[Clam Crowder]

IMO the schools doing all this for football are really just telling their basketball kids that they don't really matter. I was thinking last night about Kentucky. They are in a football conference but basketball is their main thing IMO, and their football team is not good. If a playoff system comes to be and all of these bowls only the team's loyal fans watch wont they lose the money that would be given to them for making these bowls? The kids make the programs. Who would want to play for a team like Colorado. They are not good in football. The kids don't get this money the schools do. A college is all about the people who go there and the revenue made off their tuition is what makes the school truly what it is.

[Chicago_inferiority_complexes]

It continues to amaze me that we had an oompa loompa as our head coach and he kept his identity secret until the very end.

[ChicosBailBonds]

LOL. You spend months ripping Cottingham for making a "risky" decision when people like Lowery, Keno Davis and Brownell were available. But when it turns out to be an inspired decision, Tom Crean becomes the one responsible. WOW. LOL, indeed.

Nope.  Go back to what I originally said in April of 2008 and after, you have distorted again with the comments above.   I said it was a risky hire (always will be) because it was done on the timeline it was done on.  Could have waited another week or even longer.  But that wasn't the point of my comment....it just KILLS you guys that Crean had a major hand in him getting the job.  I find that amusing as hell....I gotta admit.  Just as I find it equally amusing about all the credit given to Cottingham on the hire, when in at least one interview he said he didn't even know much about Buzz until the interview process....apparently the year prior when both were there SC was too busy trying to get all those outside Athletic Director interviews setup while he was the interim.  LOL, indeed.

Let's hope he has a plan for MU when the dust settles.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Darn, it looks like I missed the Stone Cold personal assaults.  Maybe he can email them to me instead.   

[Lennys Tap]

Nope.  Go back to what I originally said in April of 2008 and after, you have distorted again with the comments above.   I said it was a risky hire (always will be) because it was done on the timeline it was done on.  Could have waited another week or even longer.  But that wasn't the point of my comment....it just KILLS you guys that Crean had a major hand in him getting the job.  I find that amusing as hell....I gotta admit.  Just as I find it equally amusing about all the credit given to Cottingham on the hire, when in at least one interview he said he didn't even know much about Buzz until the interview process....apparently the year prior when both were there SC was too busy trying to get all those outside Athletic Director interviews setup while he was the interim.  LOL, indeed.

Let's hope he has a plan for MU when the dust settles.

You're "misremembering" here. Yes, you ripped the "process" because it all happened too quickly in your (but {at least according to your "sources"}not in Dick Strong and Tom Crean's) mind but you ALSO didn't like the hire because it was TOO RISKY.  You wanted one of the  "more proven" coaches who were available. Remember how you said we were now an "established" program (thanks of course to Tom Crean) for whom such risks were no longer necessary? And you put it ALL on Cottingham. I don't recall you once ripping Crean for having any role whatsoever in what you felt was both a flawed process and a questionable hire. Now that it looks like a home run you're saying it's all Crean's doing. That's the ultimate in having it both ways.

As for having a plan for when the dust settles, why not just let Tom Crean continue to run things? That's one sure way to turn at least one vocal critic around

[ChicosBailBonds]

Correct, I wanted a more proven coach or to wait until taking the risky hire who would have been there anyway.  I've never said differently.  I'm just laughing at the role TC played in all this and how much that bothers so many of you.  LOL. 

[ZiggysFryBoy]

Cottingham sent Buzz to meet with Strong just before he announced Buzz as HC...is the timeline.   It's apparent Strong wasn't sold on Buzz until after the meeting, hence the need for a meeting in the first place.

Chicos proves to be a..  with this thread.  

Crean was busy touring Bloomington in a limo when Cottingham was meeting with Buzz.

I've heard the exact same time line as Stone Cold.  from a "friend of the program."

[Lennys Tap]

I've heard the exact same time line as Stone Cold.  from a "friend of the program."

When faced with conflicting "sources" I'll believe the one that seems most logical. Is it logical to anyone (other than a hardcore Creanophile) that Marquette would hire a coach because the guy who just stabbed them in the back thought it was a good idea? No. Is it logical for a master pr guy to try to create that impression in order to salvage a tarnished reputation? You bet.

I'm with you and Stone Cold on this one.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Duane, you should be a happy camper.  The Big East, likely, is safe...for now...at least for awhile.  The contract disparities are still gigantic but it probably buys MU another two years...hopefully.

Can't wait to hear who put a stop to all of this.  I'm sure ESPN was part of it, but they can't be the only ones.  The next few weeks will be fun as all the info dribbles out.  Maybe Mr. Tagliabue had a hand in it.

[ChicosBailBonds]

When faced with conflicting "sources" I'll believe the one that seems most logical. Is it logical to anyone (other than a hardcore Creanophile) that Marquette would hire a coach because the guy who just stabbed them in the back thought it was a good idea? No. Is it logical for a master pr guy to try to create that impression in order to salvage a tarnished reputation? You bet.

I'm with you and Stone Cold on this one.

You mean like when Kevin O'Neill bailed (stabbed them in the back")  on Marquette and hand picked Mike Deane as the successor....you mean like that?  Don't believe me on that one....talk to Father DiUlio, Bill Cords and a few others.  LOL