KU to Big East?

[Tom Crean's Tanning Bed]

+1
Today on Vegas sports talks shows they were talking about KU being left out in the cold by others leaving for the Pac-10 and Big Televen.  I could never see KU in the Mountain West!

Competively it may be the best option they have left.  They'd be a natural fit geographically in the Big 10, academically as well with being an AAU member.  But since they bring not much in terms of TV market/football (Mizzou will already bring them most of Kansas City), the Big 10 won't take them as their objective in this whole thing is to build the biggest cable TV network distribution possible. 

Mountain West has to be licking their chops right now, because they could end up with a 12 team football conference eligible to host a championshp game, a current top 5 BCS football program (Boise State), an all-time top 5 hoops program (Kansas), and a BCS auto bid by the time this all shakes out by almost default.

[bamamarquettefan]

From Auburn I can tell you, the SEC is absolutely set on expanding if the Big 10 does.  They will not let the Big 10 become a bigger football conference in numbers.  it will drive a pillage of the ACC.

To me if expansion starts, it all comes down to whether the Big East can be the surviver over the Big 12 and ACC.  If the SEC pillages the ACC, and the Pac 10 pillages the Big 12, with the Big 10 pillaging the Big East, then we are on someone equal footing on who comes out on top from the other three.

Under that scenario if we can pick up Kansas and KState and/or Maryland and Boston College from the remnants of the other two, then we win.

Then we just need to make sure the commitment to being the best basketball conference in the land stays in tact, but if we grab any or all of those four, how could basketball not be front and center and MU, with the 10th best attendance in the land, as well as Gtown and Nova be part of the mix.

[TJ]

Competively it may be the best option they have left.  They'd be a natural fit geographically in the Big 10, academically as well with being an AAU member.  But since they bring not much in terms of TV market/football (Mizzou will already bring them most of Kansas City), the Big 10 won't take them as their objective in this whole thing is to build the biggest cable TV network distribution possible.  

Mountain West has to be licking their chops right now, because they could end up with a 12 team football conference eligible to host a championshp game, a current top 5 BCS football program (Boise State), an all-time top 5 hoops program (Kansas), and a BCS auto bid by the time this all shakes out by almost default.

Even if this does shake out as bad as it could and the B11, P10, and SEC all become 16 team conferences, that's only 48 teams.  There would be 25 current BCS teams left over in three decimated conferences.  Sure there are some losers in there, but there's enough to create a conference better than that theoretical Mountain West, and I think KU would find themselves a part of it.  In fact, maybe that conference takes BYU, Utah, and/or Boise State, screwing the Mountain West totally in the process.  Geography isn't as important as it used to be; and it could be even less so if you end up with 10-15 major programs dealing with the aftermath and facing the possibilities of a spread out conference vs a crappy conference.

[VegasWarrior77]

Sure there are some losers in there, but there's enough to create a conference better than that theoretical Mountain West, and I think KU would find themselves a part of it.  In fact, maybe that conference takes BYU, Utah, and/or Boise State, screwing the Mountain West totally in the process.

Yesterday the Mountain West announced they had no plans to expand "at this time...".  People here (Las Vegas) were expecting an announcement on Boise St. joining the Mountain West.  I think this might mean Boise St. has other options.

[Mr. Nielsen]

No, per ESPN's college football live, it means Boise State has untill July 1 to tell the WAC if they are leaving. The Mtn.West just wants to see what happens in the 3 weeks.

[TJ]

Yesterday the Mountain West announced they had no plans to expand "at this time...".  People here (Las Vegas) were expecting an announcement on Boise St. joining the Mountain West.  I think this might mean Boise St. has other options.

The Mountain West could just be waiting for everything to shake out to see if there are better options for expansion than BSU.

[Benny B]

From Auburn I can tell you, the SEC is absolutely set on expanding if the Big 10 does.  They will not let the Big 10 become a bigger football conference in numbers.  it will drive a pillage of the ACC.

To me if expansion starts, it all comes down to whether the Big East can be the surviver over the Big 12 and ACC.  If the SEC pillages the ACC, and the Pac 10 pillages the Big 12, with the Big 10 pillaging the Big East, then we are on someone equal footing on who comes out on top from the other three.

Under that scenario if we can pick up Kansas and KState and/or Maryland and Boston College from the remnants of the other two, then we win.

Then we just need to make sure the commitment to being the best basketball conference in the land stays in tact, but if we grab any or all of those four, how could basketball not be front and center and MU, with the 10th best attendance in the land, as well as Gtown and Nova be part of the mix.

Excellent point.  Granted, the college basketball revenue stream may be "maxed out," but the number is still huge.  If you can have schools like MU, G-Town, Nova, etc. survive without a football program, why can't a conference do the same thing?  Just because you're not the richest school (or conference) on the block, it doesn't mean you can't be successful.

College football is big, but the NFL is bigger.  I'm not sure you can say the same about college basketball and the NBA, and assuming such, therein lies an opportunity for the Big East.  Lay low, let everyone else bloody themselves in the war, and launch your attack when the moment is right.

[GoldenWarrior]

I think you mean Mtn. West not the Big West.

Yes, sorry

[goodgreatgrand]

The perfect quote that is undeniably misunderstood by the "brains" of the BE front-office:

"College basketball is closer to college baseball than college football in terms of the importance placed on the things that will shape leagues."

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/story/13491457/lost-in-the-phog-kansas-shows-basketballs-place-in-college


 

[GGGG]

Excellent point.  Granted, the college basketball revenue stream may be "maxed out," but the number is still huge.  If you can have schools like MU, G-Town, Nova, etc. survive without a football program, why can't a conference do the same thing?  Just because you're not the richest school (or conference) on the block, it doesn't mean you can't be successful.

College football is big, but the NFL is bigger.  I'm not sure you can say the same about college basketball and the NBA, and assuming such, therein lies an opportunity for the Big East.  Lay low, let everyone else bloody themselves in the war, and launch your attack when the moment is right.

I think you fail to understand how much bigger football revenues are than basketball revenue.  You'd be "launching an attack" against second tier conferences who were shut out of the big boys in this latest round of expansion.

I know people are trying to find a bright spot in all of this, but *at best* Marquette maintains in position in the college sports world.  However, it is very likely that the revenue disparities between MU and the rest grow even larger making it harder for us to compete at the sport we care about the most.

[bilsu]

Football provides hugh revenue, but also has hugh expenses. I believe MU sports had a profit and UW's had a loss.

[HoopsMalone]

Football provides hugh revenue, but also has hugh expenses. I believe MU sports had a profit and UW's had a loss.

I don't know if the Big Ten schools had a loss after the revenue sharing from TV. 

But just because football is king now, doesn't mean its money-making bubble won't burst in the next decade.  Not saying it will ever become not profitable, but who is to say that interest in college basketball won't spike in the future?

[GGGG]

Football provides hugh revenue, but also has hugh expenses. I believe MU sports had a profit and UW's had a loss.

It depends on what you count as revenue and expenses.  As stand alone entities, football loses money, but if you count marginal revenue from donations (even if to academic programs) and student recruitment, my guess is that most schools find their football programs very valuable.  I mean, if MU dropped basketball, you would lose a significant part of the University...one that helps with Alumni loyalty and student recruitment. 

You can't view the profitability of sports in a vacuum.

[GoldenWarrior]

In the end football is the dominant college athletic program for school's nation wide, but there are still going to be basketball revenues and schools such as MU that are basketball only schools essentially.  We will be taking a back seat though to those with big football programs and they do hold power over what happens in conferences and unfortunately for us that could be a big time negative on our future program aspirations.

[Dawson Rental]

Competively it may be the best option they have left.  They'd be a natural fit geographically in the Big 10, academically as well with being an AAU member.  But since they bring not much in terms of TV market/football (Mizzou will already bring them most of Kansas City), the Big 10 won't take them as their objective in this whole thing is to build the biggest cable TV network distribution possible. 

Mountain West has to be licking their chops right now, because they could end up with a 12 team football conference eligible to host a championshp game, a current top 5 BCS football program (Boise State), an all-time top 5 hoops program (Kansas), and a BCS auto bid by the time this all shakes out by almost default.

I just don't get why you'd think that the Big 12 leftovers would head for the Mountain West.  Can Kansas continue to be Kansas by promising new recruits annual trips to Idaho and Utah?  Financially, playing teams in the Mountain West region can't be rewarding.  THERE IS a reason why the Pac 10 ain't rumored to be gobbling up the Mountain West's best teams.  If the Big 12 gets torn apart, anyone who doesn't end up on the Pac 10's or Big Ten's dance card will come running the Big East's way.  Their next best option would be to try and form a new conference by raiding the best of the Mountain West and CUSA.  That would leave them a step below the current Big East.  If the Big Ten decides to go big and raids the Big 12 and the Big East which I don't think is likely, then I think a meeting of whoever is left from those two will definitely take place in the hallway with Memphis and probably TCU listening in.

[GGGG]

I just don't get why you'd think that the Big 12 leftovers would head for the Mountain West.  Can Kansas continue to be Kansas by promising new recruits annual trips to Idaho and Utah?  Financially, playing teams in the Mountain West region can't be rewarding.  THERE IS a reason why the Pac 10 ain't rumored to be gobbling up the Mountain West's best teams.  If the Big 12 gets torn apart, anyone who doesn't end up on the Pac 10's or Big Ten's dance card will come running the Big East's way.  Their next best option would be to try and form a new conference by raiding the best of the Mountain West and CUSA.  That would leave them a step below the current Big East. 

A merged conference like that would be better than the BE.  The MWC is probably better than the BE now.  But for sh*ts and giggles, let's put something together: 

Utah, BYU, TCU, Kansas, Kansas State, Iowa State, Colorado, Colorado State, Houston, SMU, New Mexico and Air Force.

That's better than the BE by a long shot.

[TJ]

A merged conference like that would be better than the BE.  The MWC is probably better than the BE now.  But for sh*ts and giggles, let's put something together: 

Utah, BYU, TCU, Kansas, Kansas State, Iowa State, Colorado, Colorado State, Houston, SMU, New Mexico and Air Force.

That's better than the BE by a long shot.

by a long shot?  I know you're talking about just college football, and I don't know much about college football, so I guess you could be right.  That just doesn't look to be true at first glance to me though.

[GGGG]

OK...by a long shot may have been an exaggeration.  But it is a better football conference than the BE.

[Litehouse]

But it is a better football conference than the BE.

From a competitive standpoint, you're probably right.  But from a revenue generating TV viewers standpoint, I'm not so sure.  Also, Kansas might one of the few schools more interested in the basketball side more than the football side.

[HoopsMalone]

From a competitive standpoint, you're probably right.  But from a revenue generating TV viewers standpoint, I'm not so sure.  Also, Kansas might one of the few schools more interested in the basketball side more than the football side.

KU alums care more about hoops I am sure, but their bottom line cares about football I am sure. 

Kansas has some momentum going in their football program.  If they get a Big East schedule, then they could be thinking BCS bid.  The Big East would be a nice spot for Kansas.  And Bill Self could sell going into Madison Square Garden every March along with what he has already.

[mugrad99]

A merged conference like that would be better than the BE.  The MWC is probably better than the BE now.  But for sh*ts and giggles, let's put something together: 

Utah, BYU, TCU, Kansas, Kansas State, Iowa State, Colorado, Colorado State, Houston, SMU, New Mexico and Air Force.

That's better than the BE by a long shot.

Last years RPI's
Utah17, BYU12, TCU9, Kansas92, Kansas State77, Iowa State73, Colorado132, Colorado State135, Houston40, SMU56, New Mexico159 and Air Force39.

That averages out to 70

Big East Last year:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
   Cincinnati 7-0   12-1 5   73.56 9  63.46
   Pittsburgh 5-2   10-3 13   65.69 12  59.63
   West Virginia 5-2   9-4 22   58.03 20  51.99
   South Florida 3-4   8-5 49   37.84 75  25.08
   Rutgers 3-4   9-4 33   49.45 37  38.80
   Connecticut 3-4   8-5 37   47.55 36  40.01
   Syracuse 1-6   4-8 105   29.01 61  26.68
   Louisville 1-6   4-8 110   28.23 72  25.48

Averages out to 46

So, how is it better?

[GGGG]

Well, the "new" conference's top 8 teams average it out to 30.75.  Plus in the bottom four you have Kansas and Colorado, two of the more "traditional" powers that would be coming from the Big 12. 

And honestly, you care more about the top because that is where the conference makes its money.

[reinko]

KU alums care more about hoops I am sure, but their bottom line cares about football I am sure. 

Kansas has some momentum going in their football program.  If they get a Big East schedule, then they could be thinking BCS bid.  The Big East would be a nice spot for Kansas.  And Bill Self could sell going into Madison Square Garden every March along with what he has already.

KU has a lot momentum.

[TJ]

Well, the "new" conference's top 8 teams average it out to 30.75.  Plus in the bottom four you have Kansas and Colorado, two of the more "traditional" powers that would be coming from the Big 12. 

And honestly, you care more about the top because that is where the conference makes its money.

So a bunch of afterthought schools with ranks 9, 12, 17, 39, and 40 vs bigger, but equally unimportant in terms of football, schools with ranks 5, 13, 22, 33, and 37.

How is that hands down better for either side?

[GGGG]

So a bunch of afterthought schools with ranks 9, 12, 17, 39, and 40 vs bigger, but equally unimportant in terms of football, schools with ranks 5, 13, 22, 33, and 37.

How is that hands down better for either side?

That's another way of looking at it.  I guess I just see schools like Utah and TCU getting to BCS bowls and pulling in recruits from the pipelines of Texas and California, while BE schools are generally losing (and generally losing big) in these games.