Wrongful Speculation by Scoopers

[MU in Miami]

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[4everwarriors]

Why can't we all be friends?

[NersEllenson]

I never said that it would be acceptable to "send a fully qualified Reggie Smith to prep school."  That is *completely* false.

I said that if Reggie Smith went to prep school, that I didn't think we should be beholden to take him in 2011 because of Mac Irvin.

If you can find a quote where I stated otherwise, find it and post it...otherwise....shut...the...f*ck...up.

Okay - I'll shut the f*ck up on this one...as you did state:

Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on May 04, 2010, 08:04:13 AM

The BE doesn't allow Prop 48s.

If he is going to prep school, it's because of qualification issues.  The only other choice is to spend two years at a junior college.

Why are people thinking that this is some pre-arranged deal, and that if he goes to pre school that both parties would still be interested next year?  My guess is that it would be very unlikley that Smith ever gets here if he isn't here in July.

That said, it is alarming how you fly off the handle and "don't know/don't care," about significant power brokers in Illinois hoops talent, or non-confirmed, false speculation about our signed, incoming recruits.  Here is the content of our previous debate:

The Sultan of South Wayne
All American

Posts: 2248


 
   Re: Who is going to Prep School?
« Reply #44 on: May 04, 2010, 10:43:43 AM » Quote  

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Quote from: Ners on May 04, 2010, 08:54:37 AM
Based on your answer above, I don't see any reason why both parties wouldn't still be interested next year?  Again assuming it is Smith, and he didn't qualify, and the Big East doesn't allow Prop 48's - what other option did MU or Smith have?  None, right?  It isn't Buzz's or MU's fault if a player doesn't qualify, nor is it either party's fault the Big East doesn't allow Prop 48s.  I don't see why the player would be bitter toward the coach or school, or why Buzz would be bitter toward the player?  Plus, throw in the Mac Irvin connection, and that certainly wouldn't be a relationship Buzz would want to tarnish, by "wronging" one of Mac Irvin's players.  I just don't see why it couldn't work 1-year down the road - nor do I think it is unlikely (if MU is offering a borderline qualifier), that they have an up-front contract (verbal agreement) that states - Hey, if for some reason you dont' qualify, are you okay with going to a prep school for 1-year?  We still like you as a player, want you - but are you willing to go that route if necessary - since we can't Prop 48 you as the Big East doesn't allow it?




I don't know who Mac Irvin is and I don't really care.

But if Smith falls off the map, why would we want him?  Similarly, if he explodes, he might want to go elsewhere.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

So now you don't care if Scoopers are wildly posting speculations as abosulute fact, regarding a signed MU recruit being ticketed for prep school..when the program/Buzz hasn't stated as much?  No, I don't like it when a Scooper takes a cheap shot at our current coach and his recruiting tactics - when said Scooper turns out to be proven wrong.  

Alright, I'll be real honest here.

For a number of months/years I would respond to a TON of negative TC stuff in his defense.

I felt like people were just blasting him for no reason a lot of the time, so I took it upon myself to "correct" them. I was probably baited into a lot of stupid debates (my own fault).

Looking back, I probably wouldn't take that approach anymore. It really doesn't matter if I was "right" or "wrong" because coach's are ALWAYS going to have their critics, and that's something I had to accept.


What's my point?

Buzz has been a good coach so far. He's not perfect, but he's been good.

Obviously you are a Buzz fan, which is great. Enjoy it.

But, my honest advice to you would be to temper your enthusiasm and ease off the defense of everything against Buzz.

Certainly some posters will eventually become too negative and will need to be pointed out. But, you might want to dial back your expectations a bit.

If you are somewhat frustrated by what is posted now, wait until Buzz has a losing season. People on the internet will rip EVERYTHING about him (his accent, his hair style, suits, defense, lack of defense, etc.).

Just my 2 cents. You can save yourself some agony.

[Benny B]

Hey... did anyone see that squirrel at the Yankees/Twins game last night.

http://tampabay.rays.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=8347297

The best part is the "Let's Go Squirrel" chants.  Those Twin-kee (homophonetic pun intended) fans know comedy.

[mosarsour]

Hey... did anyone see that squirrel at the Yankees/Twins game last night.

http://tampabay.rays.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=8347297

The best part is the "Let's Go Squirrel" chants.  Those Twin-kee (homophonetic pun intended) fans know comedy.

+1! And thank you for changing the subject!

[StillAWarrior]

Dj chose mu not bcuz of size or name or even the big east he chose mu bcuz he saw a coach that gets the maximum from the players

This is really great to read about Buzz.  I think it's true, and it's great to know that recruits also see that.  Also, it says a lot about a kid if this is what he based his decision on (and not the brand of shoes, weather, girls, etc.).  He sounds like a mature kid.  I can't wait to see him play.

[NersEllenson]

Alright, I'll be real honest here.

For a number of months/years I would respond to a TON of negative TC stuff in his defense.

I felt like people were just blasting him for no reason a lot of the time, so I took it upon myself to "correct" them. I was probably baited into a lot of stupid debates (my own fault).

Looking back, I probably wouldn't take that approach anymore. It really doesn't matter if I was "right" or "wrong" because coach's are ALWAYS going to have their critics, and that's something I had to accept.


What's my point?

Buzz has been a good coach so far. He's not perfect, but he's been good.

Obviously you are a Buzz fan, which is great. Enjoy it.

But, my honest advice to you would be to temper your enthusiasm and ease off the defense of everything against Buzz.

Certainly some posters will eventually become too negative and will need to be pointed out. But, you might want to dial back your expectations a bit.

If you are somewhat frustrated by what is posted now, wait until Buzz has a losing season. People on the internet will rip EVERYTHING about him (his accent, his hair style, suits, defense, lack of defense, etc.).

Just my 2 cents. You can save yourself some agony.

Thanks for the insight...I'd agree that some like to bait others into discussions about the merits of current coach versus former, etc..and that subject is worn out..and I'm guilty of perpetuating it, as I've gotten involved in the defnese of Buzz.  I do think some fans are way to knee jerk in their reactions and expectations of this program at times.  After our DePaul loss we had Scoopers jumping off the bandwagon stating we wouldn't make the NIT.  Buzz has been wripped for being a bad close game coach, and for last year's MU team losing leads..yet we were 8-8 in games decided be less than 4 points.  You are definitely right, there will always be haters and people who have unrealistic expectations for their team..to where 1 loss is tragic/unacceptable.  I' sure it happened on this board during the Crean years too..I just wasn't here at that time to get involved..though I was still a fan of the program, and likely would have supported TC in most cases.  As I've said many times..I think TC was a good coach for MU and very good things happened in the prgram in his time...but I just have been blown away by Buzz and think we are on the verge of another great chapter in MU basketball...I just hope Buzz doesn't burn himself out..because it is evident he works his a$$ off.

[GGGG]

That said, it is alarming how you fly off the handle and "don't know/don't care," about significant power brokers in Illinois hoops talent, or non-confirmed, false speculation about our signed, incoming recruits.  

Have you just stumbled across the internet recently or something?  Non-confirmed and false speculation is all over the place...and I've learned arguing with anonymous posters over an over about the SAME THING is an annoying, mind-numbing excercise that makes all participants look retarded.  No matter how "right" you think you are...

[MedicineHatSpanker]

the merits of current coach versus former

Crean's legacy will be forever tarnished by the shameful way he handled his departure. I do not need to bring up his ridiculous behavior towards staff and players over the years. He was probably still is a maniacal jackass who treats decent, hard working people like crap. Integrity and character is not selectable. It is lived.

[damuts222]

Have you just stumbled across the internet recently or something?  Non-confirmed and false speculation is all over the place...and I've learned arguing with anonymous posters over an over about the SAME THING is an annoying, mind-numbing excercise that makes all participants look retarded.  No matter how "right" you think you are...

 Funny you speak of anonymous sources as I just read a column on ESPN about how these sources are becoming the norm, even though they bite columnists in the a$$ sometimes.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/columns/story?columnist=ohlmeyer_don&id=5220492

[Marquette84]

After our DePaul loss we had Scoopers jumping off the bandwagon stating we wouldn't make the NIT. 

What bandwagon are you talking about? 

As I recall, almost nobody thought we were better than 12th place to begin with--least of all you.   

[NersEllenson]

What bandwagon are you talking about?  

As I recall, almost nobody thought we were better than 12th place to begin with--least of all you.

 

Actually you make a good point, at that time of the DePaul loss it was doom and gloom around here...and the flicker of hope the team showed in beating Xavier, Michigan, Georgetown, was quickly extinguished...with many saying we wouldn't make the NIT, and definitely not the NCAA.   Good thing Buzz was able to rally the troops and lead our undermanned and undersized team on a run and squeeze us into the NCAA.  I was optimistic about what the team could achieve, given what I saw out of the team early, and from what I saw out of Buzz's coaching  - that said it was optimism and hope, as there were a good deal of hurdles the team had to overcome due to roster challenges.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I hear you... What I find interesting is how people can get so encamped into one-side or position on a basketball message board. I mean, how many threads are just plain-old pissing matches, with a couple of posters just going back and forth. And, with no surprise, it usually between guys that would be classified as "Pro-Buzz" vs. "Pro-TC." Its truly laughable how predictable it all has become.

Can't we just be pro-Buzz AND pro-TC?   I never understood why people cannot accept that many of us are both, yet folks make it out to be an either\or scenario.

[MedicineHatSpanker]

Can't we just be pro-Buzz AND pro-TC?   I never understood why people cannot accept that many of us are both, yet folks make it out to be an either\or scenario.

The two are mutually exclusive. My feelings towards Buzz Williams are completely separate from how I feel about Tom Crean. Fact is, some of us knew Tom Crean as a shallow, insincere, dishonest, gutless, unethical jerk while he was here at Marquette. And let's be honest: most of us here scratched our heads at his self-promoting garndstanding. To wit - every Midnight Madness was not to intorduce the team and kick off the new season. Hardly. It was all about Tanned Tommy. Who among us was not disgusted by his entrance on the ATV, clad in his Hai Karate suit? Rather than put the spotlight on the team, where it belonged, he hogged the camera and made everything about him. Some of you have no idea how he berated staff, including women. He didn't focus on perceived mistakes either. His verbal assaults were designed to belittle, debase, and shame people. He is a disgusting person, unworthy of our respect. Hiring Jack Harbaugh was nothing short of a jobs creation program. I refuse to contribute to Marquette for this very reason. Crean did good in terms of raising the profile of our beloved program. Unfortunately, he failed to meet the standard for ethical behavior   as an employee of a Jesuit Univerity. More tragic, his treatment of others was contemptible and Fr Wild knew precisely what was going on.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Thanks for the insight...I'd agree that some like to bait others into discussions about the merits of current coach versus former, etc..and that subject is worn out..and I'm guilty of perpetuating it, as I've gotten involved in the defnese of Buzz.  I do think some fans are way to knee jerk in their reactions and expectations of this program at times.  After our DePaul loss we had Scoopers jumping off the bandwagon stating we wouldn't make the NIT.  Buzz has been wripped for being a bad close game coach, and for last year's MU team losing leads..yet we were 8-8 in games decided be less than 4 points.  You are definitely right, there will always be haters and people who have unrealistic expectations for their team..to where 1 loss is tragic/unacceptable.  I' sure it happened on this board during the Crean years too..I just wasn't here at that time to get involved..though I was still a fan of the program, and likely would have supported TC in most cases.  As I've said many times..I think TC was a good coach for MU and very good things happened in the prgram in his time...but I just have been blown away by Buzz and think we are on the verge of another great chapter in MU basketball...I just hope Buzz doesn't burn himself out..because it is evident he works his a$$ off.

Just to be clear, I don't bring up TC as a any part of a TC vs Buzz thing.

I bring up TC because I was a fan of his and found myself on the defensive a lot in this forum. It was a bad habit I got into. It's ok to debate or have critiques/opinions, but I was just taking on the role more often than I should have.

I bet X% of the MU fanbase doesn't like (INSERT COACH) and is just waiting for him to fail so they can rip him up (and no, I don't think Marquette84 is one of those guys).

I caution you against taking on all comers. I had some of that happen with the previous coach, and I won't do it again.

I'm not saying you shouldn't love Buzz, I'm just saying you might want to dial back your debate-meter. It's running a little hot and you might find out that you are killing yourself to prove nothing. You can do what you like, but I speak from personal experience. I didn't even know it was happening until I went back and re-read a lot of my posts and realized how much I did it.

Haters are gonna hate. Ballas are gonna ball.

Be a Buzz fanboy. Enjoy it. Soak it up. Honestly. Just don't get caught grinding it out with constant debates about him. It'll wear you out.

[Ron Paul]

We all know that GUARDS win championships in college basketball.  I don't care what anyone said about who is or isn't going to Prep School, I'm just excited to see DJ on the floor next year.  Based on the video evidence it looks like this kid is already nasty and willing to work to get better.

I agree that random speculation should be held to a minimum, but this is a fan board.  As we have heard, players, recruits, alums all read this and we should be more respectful of those people by not just throwing crap against the wall to see what sticks.

[Kramerica]

Way to go.  Another thread turned into a TC vs. Buzz debate.

[MedicineHatSpanker]

Way to go.  Another thread turned into a TC vs. Buzz debate.

On the contrary. Many of us have never compared the two men. Fact is, there is no comparison but that is beside the point. Buzz may be a complete jerk, too but that is not something I have hear. Crean was/is. Crean had no place in a Christian community.

[Dawson Rental]

GA, welcome to the club.

And what better setup for that old Groucho Marx line:
"I'd never want to belong to any club that would have me as a member."

[MUCam]

Crean had no place in a Christian community.

Oh, this is precious.

[4everwarriors]

Oh, this is precious.

Good, now finally we can ship the sucker to Bangladesh.

[MedicineHatSpanker]

Oh, this is precious.

Perhaps not precious but certainly true. Can you imagine the chairman of any department ranting and raving at both staff and students, attacking their intelligence, questioning their "loyalty" not to the department but to the chairman, throwing things around the office, screaming at them at the top of his lungs, belittling them, etc...?

Not likely. Crean did all of that. Anyone else would have been dismissed for cause. Fr Wild knew what was going on, too. He shares the blame for allowing Tom Crean's savagery. None of this belonged on a Jesuit campus.

[ChicosBailBonds]

On the contrary. Many of us have never compared the two men. Fact is, there is no comparison but that is beside the point. Buzz may be a complete jerk, too but that is not something I have hear. Crean was/is. Crean had no place in a Christian community.

Beyond bizarre.  These are coaches.  Crean would be canonized compared to O'Neill and his actions.

Truly, get some more coffee up there in Seattle and you may want to read a passage about casting stones since you brought up the Christian nonsense.

[MedicineHatSpanker]

get some more coffee up there in Seattle

uh, I live in Alberta