If Cavs drop out...?

[wojosdojo]

Did anyone else feel the cavs just gave up there? Do they have something against Mike Brown? I heard there was a little argument about playing times, but I don't know. I do have to say the Cavs did show class exiting. 

[Josey Wales]

Don't discount the Nets guys. The appeal of John Wall/NYC market is much better Rose/Chicago market. Plus you already know Lebron loves Jay-Z and Brooklyn.

[wadesworld]

How large is your boner for everything against Chicago?

Not a single NBA expert would take Kaman over Noah right now.

You're sure about that?  People like Noah because he works very hard.  He is always going to be a roll player though.  He will never score more than about 12 ppg.  What makes him so much better than Kaman?

I don't have things against Chicago, I'm just pointing out that not all things are red and black in this world.  It's hilarious what people think Chicago is going to get.  I remember when they fired Scott Skiles my Chicago friends said they were going to get Coach K, Tom Izzo, Mike D'Antoni.  Then there is the whole Dwyane Wade, Lebron James, Chris Bosh all want to play in Chicago.  And this is how it is every time there is an opening.  Hell, Kobe, Durant, and Deron Williams are all going to demand to be traded to the Bulls to, I hear.

I don't think Rose is a top 5 point guard RIGHT NOW in the NBA.  Shucks, I must hate Chicago, because Rondo, Nash, Williams, Paul, Billups are all so far behind Rose.  Right.

And because I point out that a different center puts up better numbers than Joakim Noah, who I think is a good player because he plays very hard, but does not have the talent to ever become a star.  Well, clearly I just hate Chicago.  Right.

And to the person who seems to think Lebron and Bosh are both going to Chicago, it isn't going to happen.  They don't have cap room for 2 max contracts, so get over that idea.  Either Bosh isn't there or Lebron isn't there (or both, which is the most likely scenario).

[PaintTouches]

Well, I guess the GM's have red and black colored glasses too.

In the space of five minutes I heard from three NBA GMs via text, e-mail and phone. All three said that based on the information they have, they believe LeBron will leave the Cavs.

More surprisingly, all of them said they believe the destination will be the Chicago Bulls. Two said they believe that John Calipari will be the Bulls' new head coach.

http://espn.go.com/blog/TrueHoop/post/_/id/15881/lebron-to-the-bulls-3-gms-think-so

[brewcity77]

And to the person who seems to think Lebron and Bosh are both going to Chicago, it isn't going to happen.  They don't have cap room for 2 max contracts, so get over that idea.  Either Bosh isn't there or Lebron isn't there (or both, which is the most likely scenario).

Other than ESPN just reporting that Bosh could come in a sign and trade. They already have room for a midlevel player, and if they deal Hinrich and Deng (who becomes expendable with LBJ at the 3) they'd have plenty of cap space. But in my opinion, that won't happen. I do think the Bulls will sign LeBron, but I expect Bosh to head to either New York or Miami. The Bulls already have a solid young PF in Taj Gibson, what they really need is a shooting guard who can knock down the three. Guess what...Ray Allen's a free agent. My bet is the Bulls starting five looks like this next year:

PG Rose
SG Allen
SF James
PF Gibson
C Noah

It has become clear that the Cavs don't have a complimentary player good enough to help LBJ to the title, and in all honesty, I'd take Noah over anyone else on the Cavs outside of LeBron. Chicago is the only place he can go to where he will be guaranteed to be playing with another marquee player yet still will be the man (as Wade is well established in Miami...they'd never work together). Everyone is saying the Knicks, but LeBron has spent the past 7 years of his career trying to lift a crappy team with a weak supporting cast to a title and it hasn't worked. For that reason, he'll avoid another rebuilding project in New York and head to the house that Mike built.

So will he ever match Michael's accomplishments? Will he win 6 titles? 10 scoring titles? 3 more MVP awards? Who knows? No one, and the odds are he won't match Michael's numbers but with a solid young core, cap space to add another midlevel player, and a city large enough to provide all the marketing oppotunities he could ask for, the Bulls make the most sense for LeBron.

[Josey Wales]

I used to think viking fans were the most delusional in all of sports. I now see a challenger has emerged in the Bull fans on this board.

[brewcity77]

I used to think viking fans were the most delusional in all of sports. I now see a challenger has emerged in the Bull fans on this board.

I don't see how it's delusional when most of the experts I've seen tonight are saying he'll end up in Chicago. It's the only team that has both the money to sign him and a marquee level player already in place. I think anyone who knows anything about basketball would say that Rose is likely to become a superstar, health permitting. The guy wasn't the first pick in the draft, rookie of the year, and an all-star by his second season for no reason.

And anyone who follows the NBA knows you need at least two stars to win a title. Kobe needed Shaq (and later Gasol). Michael needed Pippen. Robertson needed Kareem. Kareem needed Magic. Garnett needed Pierce and Allen. Who do the Knicks have? The Nets? Only the Bulls have that guy now. I'm not saying the other teams couldn't sign another guy, but in Chicago, LBJ doesn't have to wait to see if that guy will sign, because he's already under contract.

I'm not saying it's anywhere near a done deal, but Chicago as a destination for LeBron makes a lot more sense than most of the other places he's rumored to go, especially in light of his "Cleveland was lucky to have me for 7 years" rant from the other day.

[wadesworld]

I used to think viking fans were the most delusional in all of sports. I now see a challenger has emerged in the Bull fans on this board.

+1

[Doctor V]

+1

Delusional is thinking that Brett Favre will decide if he is going to play before late summer.... This is not delusional, when multiple people in the know are saying that it is a legitimate posibility, and likely the best possibility if Lebron doesn't stay in Cleveland. If it doesn't happen, it will be squarely due to LBJ wanting to go another direction, but it is obvious that many are already afraid of the possibilities.

Delusional would be for a Bucks fan to believe they could make the finals in the next 5-7 yrs if this does happen (or any other eastern conference fan for that matter). Let me say this, at this point LBJ has a bigger chip on his shoulder than any top tier athlete in any sport, and if he ends up in Chicago he will not settle for 1 or 2 rings (and our beloved coach Cal the same). Now its just time for the Bulls to make it happen...

[Josey Wales]

Delusional is thinking that Brett Favre will decide if he is going to play before late summer.... This is not delusional, when multiple people in the know are saying that it is a legitimate posibility, and likely the best possibility if Lebron doesn't stay in Cleveland. If it doesn't happen, it will be squarely due to LBJ wanting to go another direction, but it is obvious that many are already afraid of the possibilities.

Delusional would be for a Bucks fan to believe they could make the finals in the next 5-7 yrs if this does happen (or any other eastern conference fan for that matter). Let me say this, at this point LBJ has a bigger chip on his shoulder than any top tier athlete in any sport, and if he ends up in Chicago he will not settle for 1 or 2 rings (and our beloved coach Cal the same). Now its just time for the Bulls to make it happen...

Ok, perhaps its not delusional to say that Lebron may consider Chicago. However, it is delusional to say it is the best destination, and that their roster is SOOO much better than others rosters who are in the running.

In my opinion NY Knicks is the #1 option. Lebron has made it very public that he wants to be a global icon, and there is no where better to do this than NY, and no where else (not even chicago/LA) really comes close. The opportunity to play at madison square garden in manhattan will be a major draw to Lebron. The only thing is there is NO ONE around him. However, if they can sign Bosh and Lebron they would be an amazing pair in the D'antonio system. I think Lebron would love the chance to from the the slow boring cleveland system to the fast break run and gun d'antonio system. He has said he wants to be the first billionaire athlete, and NYC is the best place for a person who wants to be greater than the sport. Doesn't make the most sense from a basketball standpoint, but I really thing lebron cares about more than just winning basketball games.

New Jersey Nets. Jersey has an all-star PG in devin harris already, the potential for another in wall, chris douglas-roberts, courtney lee, brook lopez, yi jianlian, and terrence williams. Thats a pretty decent nucleus. You also have to include the Jay-Z factor. And the fact that they are moving to a brand new, state of the art stadium in brooklyn, so he will get his NY exposure. But you have to wonder if he would want to spend 2 years in Jersey before they make the move.

LA Clippers. LA is the second largest market and the clips have a great core of young players already in eric gordon, blake griffen, chris kaman, deandre jordan and travis outlaw. he might see it as a challenge to compete with kobe for popularity in LA.

Heat. The allure of South Beach + Dwade is huge, but it will be hard for them to sign both. And they apparently loved playing with each other for team USA.

Orlando Magic? If they can deal lewis they should have enough cap to sign him. Plus no income tax in florida. Imagine lebron and dwight howard. This is his destination is championships are truly the most important to him.

And the craziest option: Lebron in Europe. Its rumored that the billionaire brothers who own the team that Josh Childress plays for is planning on offering Lebron 50-80 Mil/year in the uncapped Euro League. What better way to increase his international exposure? Go play in Europe for 2 years, make 100+ mil, and come back just in time for the Nets grand move to Brooklyn.

[GGGG]

I don't think it's necessarily false to say that Chicago has the best combination of cap space to offer and a roster already in place.  They have a point guard.  They have some decent role players (Gibson, Noah).  Of all the teams with a bunch of space available, only Miami and Chicago made the playoffs.

The Knicks can offer two max contracts.  However, I'm not sure that they have anybody else worth mentioning on that team.  The Nets might have a better supporting cast...but I don't think it's better than the Cavs.

And the D'Antoni "system" is a bit of a joke.  Works great in the regular season, but come playoff time you actually have to play defense.

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

If he leaves Cleveland, it's going to be Chicago or New York. Suggesting otherwise is idiocy.

Wadesworld has the biggest inferiority complex I've ever encountered in a Milwaukeean...and that's saying a LOT.

Like it or not, thanks to Jordan the Chicago Bulls are one of the NBA's glamor franchises. They are right up there with the Lakers and the Celtics.  The Knicks like to think they are because of the city they play in, but they've been irrelevant for 35 years. Unless he stays with Cleveland or the Knicks give him the keys to their front office, the Bulls make the most sense given the city itself, their cap space, roster and, yes, their global and national popularity. 

You look like a complete insecure loser to suggest otherwise.

[wadesworld]

If he leaves Cleveland, it's going to be Chicago or New York. Suggesting otherwise is idiocy.

Wadesworld has the biggest inferiority complex I've ever encountered in a Milwaukeean...and that's saying a LOT.

Like it or not, thanks to Jordan the Chicago Bulls are one of the NBA's glamor franchises. They are right up there with the Lakers and the Celtics.  The Knicks like to think they are because of the city they play in, but they've been irrelevant for 35 years. Unless he stays with Cleveland or the Knicks give him the keys to their front office, the Bulls make the most sense given the city itself, their cap space, roster and, yes, their global and national popularity. 

You look like a complete insecure loser to suggest otherwise.

I'm not saying that they aren't a good destination for Lebron James.  I am saying that they aren't going to get every player that they think they can.  Let's be honest here, we've heard numerous combination of what players the Bulls will get.  To think they will get Lebron and Bosh, now that is idiocy.  According to people on here, they will get Lebron and Bosh, Boozer and Johnson, Wade, Lebron, Bosh, AND Ray Allen, etc.  Would I be shocked to see the Bulls get Lebron?  Nope.  Would I be shocked to see the Bulls get Lebron, Bosh, and Ray Allen?  HELL YEAH!  Again, at that point, why not throw in Kevin Durant and Dwight Howard?  In fact, let's just make this the entire Eastern Conference All-Star Team.

Delusional is thinking that Brett Favre will decide if he is going to play before late summer.... This is not delusional, when multiple people in the know are saying that it is a legitimate posibility, and likely the best possibility if Lebron doesn't stay in Cleveland. If it doesn't happen, it will be squarely due to LBJ wanting to go another direction, but it is obvious that many are already afraid of the possibilities.

Delusional would be for a Bucks fan to believe they could make the finals in the next 5-7 yrs if this does happen (or any other eastern conference fan for that matter). Let me say this, at this point LBJ has a bigger chip on his shoulder than any top tier athlete in any sport, and if he ends up in Chicago he will not settle for 1 or 2 rings (and our beloved coach Cal the same). Now its just time for the Bulls to make it happen...

Again, wouldn't be shocked to see him in Chicago.  I still do not think it's the most likely, or even 2nd most likely, option there is, but wouldn't be shocked by it.  I WOULD be shocked by him, Bosh, and Ray Allen, or even him and Bosh, both being in Chicago.

And honestly?  You think the Bulls would make it SEVEN straight years to the NBA Finals?  I'm not sure if you've checked out the Magic's roster recently, but they're pretty stacked.  You've seen what Lebron and his teams do (or don't do) in the playoffs.  All it takes is ONE bad series in SEVEN years.  Now THAT is delusional.

[brewcity77]

Wadesworld, if you spent as much time reading posts as you do attacking them, you might understand why people think your responses are a bit ridiculous. No one is saying the Bulls will sign everyone on the market, only that LeBron and another max guy via a sign and trade is possible. And no one said 7 straight Finals appearances, only that he likely wouldn't be satisfied with one or two titles.

Please calm down and realize that while we may be optimistic about our chances of landing LBJ6, we don't think he will come from on high with Jesus signing on to play the  2.

[wadesworld]

Wadesworld, if you spent as much time reading posts as you do attacking them, you might understand why people think your responses are a bit ridiculous. No one is saying the Bulls will sign everyone on the market, only that LeBron and another max guy via a sign and trade is possible. And no one said 7 straight Finals appearances, only that he likely wouldn't be satisfied with one or two titles.

Please calm down and realize that while we may be optimistic about our chances of landing LBJ6, we don't think he will come from on high with Jesus signing on to play the  2.

Delusional would be for a Bucks fan to believe they could make the finals in the next 5-7 yrs if this does happen (or any other eastern conference fan for that matter).

My reading comprehension may be off on this, but to me that looks to be saying that it is delusional to think that the Bulls WOULD NOT make the NBA Finals 7 straight years.  Otherwise I'm not sure why he would say that any Eastern Conference fan would be delusional for thinking their team DID have a shot to make the NBA Finals.

My reading comprehension may be wrong on that, though.

[brewcity77]

Hmm...looking at that I would agree with you. MUDimitri is being more than a bit over-optimistic. Reading this on my phone and missed his parenthetical.

Regardless, getting LeBron and one other significant player (Allen, Johnson, even Bosh) is not out of the realm of possibility and if it happens, the Bulls would certainly be labeled a contender every year. Winning 4-5 titles in the next 7 years would not be an impossible dream. However, any Bulls fan that thinks LeBron will automatically sign up for the max 5 year deal may be delusional. If he leaves Cleveland, I think he'll sign a 3-year so he can sign a max deal under the Larry Bird rule that much sooner.

[MUCrew]

I'm not saying that they aren't a good destination for Lebron James.  I am saying that they aren't going to get every player that they think they can.  Let's be honest here, we've heard numerous combination of what players the Bulls will get.  To think they will get Lebron and Bosh, now that is idiocy.  According to people on here, they will get Lebron and Bosh, Boozer and Johnson, Wade, Lebron, Bosh, AND Ray Allen, etc.  Would I be shocked to see the Bulls get Lebron?  Nope.  Would I be shocked to see the Bulls get Lebron, Bosh, and Ray Allen?  HELL YEAH!  Again, at that point, why not throw in Kevin Durant and Dwight Howard?  In fact, let's just make this the entire Eastern Conference All-Star Team.Again, wouldn't be shocked to see him in Chicago.  I still do not think it's the most likely, or even 2nd most likely, option there is, but wouldn't be shocked by it.  I WOULD be shocked by him, Bosh, and Ray Allen, or even him and Bosh, both being in Chicago.

Not saying that it will happen, but it is possible.  See the 2000 Orlando Magic, 2008 Boston Celtics, 2004 LA Lakers.  Those teams brought in major talent in one offseason.  2 of them made the Finals that year and 1 obviously won it all.  

It's a pipe dream, sure...but it's not out of the realm of possibility that Chicago takes on 2 star players on top of having Rose and Noah.  I take all of this LeBron, Bosh, Wade, JJ, etc talk with a grain of salt.  I mean, remember when Kobe was supposed to be a Bull?  It's the same thing to me and I'm not going to be delusional about what possible scenarios could take place this NBA offseason.  

[RawdogDX]

Please.  Top 5 point guards?  Take off the red and black glasses.

Point guards I would take before Derrick Rose WITHOUT A QUESTION:
Steve Nash (1), Rajon Rondo (2), Derron Williams (3), Chauncey Billups (4), Jameer Nelson (5), Chris Paul (6)
Point guards that I personally would take over Derrick Rose, but you can make a case for Rose over them:
Brandon Jennings (7), Russell Westbrook (8), Tyreke Evans (9), Tony Parker (10), Devin Harris (11) (would try to make a case for Baron Davis but he doesn't make his team much better)

Derrick Rose is a very good player, but you have to keep in mind that the league is full of unbelievably talented point guards.  In my opinion Derrick Rose is not nearly a top 5 point guard YET.  He most likely will become one, but he isn't there right now.

Brandon Jennings and I'm wearing glasses?
If you were having a pg draft Nash and billops wouldn't be there due to age.  Chris paul is an injury risk.  You are overrating Nelson.  Brandon Jennings was pedestrian the 2nd half of the season, lets see him make the all star team in his 2nd year before we get impressed.  I'm not even going ot address Tyreke Evans who isn't in roses league. 
We aren't talking about 1 game tomorrow.  If you were going to pick a pg to play with for the next 8 years rose is easily top 5.

[reinko]

Hmm...looking at that I would agree with you. MUDimitri is being more than a bit over-optimistic. Reading this on my phone and missed his parenthetical.

Hey Wades, could you try to put in a space in between what you have quoted and your own posts?  They are impossible to read on a mobile browser.

THHHHHHAAAAAAAANNNNNNNNKKKKKKKSSSSS

[GoldenWarrior]

Just gotta say a few things... I grew up in Cleveland and subsequently have been a Cleveland sports fan all my life, yes even before LeBron.  Last night's game was such a disappointment because the Cavs gave up and the effort was not there.  Complete lack of urgency or need/desire to win.

That said, I really think LBJ will stay in Cleveland, but Chicago would be the only other option if you ask me.  They have a good young core, but also they haven't been able to hire the right coach and maintain the past few years, so what makes you think LBJ wants to work for that type of front office?  That said, Cleveland will have to fire Mike Brown and make a push for a substantial head coach to not just bow down to LeBron.  In press conferences, etc you always just hear Mike Brown kissing LeBron's a$$ and saying how great he was, but you'll never hear that from Phil Jackson on Kobe. The Cavs actually have some strong young talent as well that I think people nationally are overlooking as well (Delonte West, Mo Williams, JJ Hickson, Anderson Varejou) [NOTE:  Yes some of those young "talents" have struggled in the playoffs *Mo Williams in particular* but it's a learning process for them as well to get that kill or be killed mentality just like LBJ is learning]

[KipsBayEagle]

Just gotta say a few things... I grew up in Cleveland and subsequently have been a Cleveland sports fan all my life, yes even before LeBron.  Last night's game was such a disappointment because the Cavs gave up and the effort was not there.  Complete lack of urgency or need/desire to win.

That said, I really think LBJ will stay in Cleveland, but Chicago would be the only other option if you ask me.  They have a good young core, but also they haven't been able to hire the right coach and maintain the past few years, so what makes you think LBJ wants to work for that type of front office?  That said, Cleveland will have to fire Mike Brown and make a push for a substantial head coach to not just bow down to LeBron.  In press conferences, etc you always just hear Mike Brown kissing LeBron's a$$ and saying how great he was, but you'll never hear that from Phil Jackson on Kobe. The Cavs actually have some strong young talent as well that I think people nationally are overlooking as well (Delonte West, Mo Williams, JJ Hickson, Anderson Varejou) [NOTE:  Yes some of those young "talents" have struggled in the playoffs *Mo Williams in particular* but it's a learning process for them as well to get that kill or be killed mentality just like LBJ is learning]

I am scared about the kill or be killed mentality.  I don't feel like thats something you learn, i feel like its something you have or don't have.  Two things stood out to me last night.  The first was that on4 or 5 half court breaks, lebron had the ball and instead of taking it down the court, he literally threw the ball across the court to mo williams.  The passed even looked odd, it was like an underhand flip that travel 90 miles per hour across the court.  The other thing that has to stand out was when they didn't foul in the last minute and just dribbled the ball up non chalantly weith 40 secionds left.  Kobe or MJ, or any coach that values his job would have been screaming bloody murder, and at least tried to win the game.  It almost seemed that not just lebron, but the whole cavaliers franchise just gave up in the last minute.

[wadesworld]

Brandon Jennings and I'm wearing glasses?
If you were having a pg draft Nash and billops wouldn't be there due to age.  Chris paul is an injury risk.  You are overrating Nelson.  Brandon Jennings was pedestrian the 2nd half of the season, lets see him make the all star team in his 2nd year before we get impressed.  I'm not even going ot address Tyreke Evans who isn't in roses league. 
We aren't talking about 1 game tomorrow.  If you were going to pick a pg to play with for the next 8 years rose is easily top 5.

I agree with this.  Like I said, if I'm drafting a point guard for the future Rose comes up at 4 to me.  I'd take Williams, Rondo, and Paul (too good to pass up despite some injuries) over him.  I was just pointing out that as of today Rose was not a top 5 point guard.

And Jennings had an unbelievable year and is only going to get better with maturity, which will lead to better shot selection.  In my opinion, with proper work, he has the potential to be a better all-around point guard than Derrick Rose.  As of right now, Rose is more proven, but if Jennings can consistently knock down mid-range jump shots, he's going to be lethal.  He gets to the paint at will and shot 37% from 3 point range this year.  He's quicker than just about anybody in the game and can create for his teammates.

[GoldenWarrior]

I am scared about the kill or be killed mentality.  I don't feel like thats something you learn, i feel like its something you have or don't have.  Two things stood out to me last night.  The first was that on4 or 5 half court breaks, lebron had the ball and instead of taking it down the court, he literally threw the ball across the court to mo williams.  The passed even looked odd, it was like an underhand flip that travel 90 miles per hour across the court.  The other thing that has to stand out was when they didn't foul in the last minute and just dribbled the ball up non chalantly weith 40 secionds left.  Kobe or MJ, or any coach that values his job would have been screaming bloody murder, and at least tried to win the game.  It almost seemed that not just lebron, but the whole cavaliers franchise just gave up in the last minute.

Unfortunately I totally agree.  It was completely degrading to see my team just give up and not even care enough to foul in the end.  LBJ clearly wasn't right for 5 of those 6 games... I have not a clue as to why, but he wasn't right.

I disagree though with the kill or be killed mentality.  I think it takes a few bad losses to build that hunger and to almost humble you and create that hunger to want to reach the peak of a champion even more.  To some degree I see what you're saying, but even Kobe needed time to develop into the cold blooded killer he is regarded as today... also a good consistent jump shot might help 

[Benny B]

If for no other reason than because I really dislike the NBA, I'm going to throw this little nugget out there.

To paraphrase Scott Boras: "You don't pay for an elite player, an elite player pays for himself."

The marginal revenue gain of signing an elite player is greater in a city like Milwaukee and Indianapolis than it is in Cleveland, Chicago, Miami, NY or LA.  How many more tickets will the Bulls sell if they sign D-Wade when most of their games are pretty much sold-out already?  Same question for the other "elite" cities.

Cleveland stands to lose the most with the departure of LeBron, but cities like Milwaukee, Indianapolis, etc. have the most to gain.  You put a D-Wade or LeBron-type player in Milwaukee or Indianapolis, and you might very well double last year's revenue before the season even starts.

At the end of the day, it's all about the money.  Players and owners want more of it, period.  They all could give a rat's behind about winning a championship as long as they're getting paid.

[GoldenWarrior]

If for no other reason than because I really dislike the NBA, I'm going to throw this little nugget out there.

To paraphrase Scott Boras: "You don't pay for an elite player, an elite player pays for himself."

The marginal revenue gain of signing an elite player is greater in a city like Milwaukee and Indianapolis than it is in Cleveland, Chicago, Miami, NY or LA.  How many more tickets will the Bulls sell if they sign D-Wade when most of their games are pretty much sold-out already?  Same question for the other "elite" cities.

Cleveland stands to lose the most with the departure of LeBron, but cities like Milwaukee, Indianapolis, etc. have the most to gain.  You put a D-Wade or LeBron-type player in Milwaukee or Indianapolis, and you might very well double last year's revenue before the season even starts.

At the end of the day, it's all about the money.  Players and owners want more of it, period.  They all could give a rat's behind about winning a championship as long as they're getting paid.

It is all about the money and the owners' investment, but there's also salary cap rules and restrictions.  Milwaukee and Indianapolis and about 24 other teams do not have the money or space to add a LeBron or D Wade.  I see what you are getting at, but there's just too many reasons why that won't and can't happen.