If Cavs drop out...?

[Doctor V]

QFT!

Also, I agree, Lebron to Jersey (Brooklyn).

I have serious doubts that Lebron would end up in Chicago.  In fact I'd consider eating my shoe if he did.

I'll remember this...

How is Chicago all of a sudden considered a bad gig for any of these guys? Every athlete says they love to play there, whether you admit it or not. It is a huge market (maybe a step below only NYC and LA). It has produced a dynasty and can do it again. It has a solid core of young talent (Rose, Deng, Noah, Gibson, Hinrich)- much better than NY, NJ, or Miami. Lastly, Jesus loves it (FIBS!)

[MerrittsMustache]

I'd take Durant over Carmello

He's actually Carmelo now. He used to be Carmello, but then Wes and the Jazz beat the 'L' out of him.

Thank you! I'll be here all week!

[RawdogDX]

Anyone who thinks Bulls + lebron < lebron + cavs is crazy.
Noah and Rose are both better than the 2nd best player in cleavland.  Deng is easily good enough to be the 4th option on a championship team, not to mention better depth off the bench.

How do you think the best player in the league with a top 10 center and top 5 pg won't win a title is beyond me.

[wadesworld]

Anyone who thinks Bulls + lebron < lebron + cavs is crazy.
Noah and Rose are both better than the 2nd best player in cleavland.  Deng is easily good enough to be the 4th option on a championship team, not to mention better depth off the bench.

How do you think the best player in the league with a top 10 center and top 5 pg won't win a title is beyond me.

Please.  Top 5 point guards?  Take off the red and black glasses.

Point guards I would take before Derrick Rose WITHOUT A QUESTION:
Steve Nash (1), Rajon Rondo (2), Derron Williams (3), Chauncey Billups (4), Jameer Nelson (5), Chris Paul (6)
Point guards that I personally would take over Derrick Rose, but you can make a case for Rose over them:
Brandon Jennings (7), Russell Westbrook (8), Tyreke Evans (9), Tony Parker (10), Devin Harris (11) (would try to make a case for Baron Davis but he doesn't make his team much better)

Derrick Rose is a very good player, but you have to keep in mind that the league is full of unbelievably talented point guards.  In my opinion Derrick Rose is not nearly a top 5 point guard YET.  He most likely will become one, but he isn't there right now.

[LastWarrior]

If anyone gives either Boozer or Johnson max contracts, they will regret that within a year.  If you watched their teams get swept out of the playoffs, you'll see that neither is at that level.

I never said they'd be max contract guys with the Bulls and I hope the Bulls aren't that stupid.  That said, a lot of teams have cap space and will miss on the big guys and will feel the money burning a hole in the pocket.

Bosh is option 1, 2, & 3 for the Bulls... IF Lebron isn't leaving Cleveland.

[wojosdojo]

Please.  Top 5 point guards?  Take off the red and black glasses.

Point guards I would take before Derrick Rose WITHOUT A QUESTION:
Steve Nash (1), Rajon Rondo (2), Derron Williams (3), Chauncey Billups (4), Jameer Nelson (5), Chris Paul (6)
Point guards that I personally would take over Derrick Rose, but you can make a case for Rose over them:
Brandon Jennings (7), Russell Westbrook (8), Tyreke Evans (9), Tony Parker (10), Devin Harris (11) (would try to make a case for Baron Davis but he doesn't make his team much better)

Derrick Rose is a very good player, but you have to keep in mind that the league is full of unbelievably talented point guards.  In my opinion Derrick Rose is not nearly a top 5 point guard YET.  He most likely will become one, but he isn't there right now.

Woah woah woah, I'm not saying I agree that Rose is a top 5 pg but kmon, Jameer Nelson? He's a great shooter but if I'm sure majority of people are going to pick Rose over Nelson. As far as age wise id take Rose over Nash bc who knows how many rounds Steve has left in the tank. Same situation with BuBuBuBillups. Maybe because I'm a Bulls fan I'm gunna say id take Rose over Rondo because of how easily rose makes it look to get to the hoop. I also think Rose is a better shooter. Said that, D Will is the 2nd best pg in the league.

I'm not even going to get into the "personal" reasons. Rose IS NEAR the top 5 best pg in the league.

[🏀]

Please.  Top 5 point guards?  Take off the red and black glasses.

Point guards I would take before Derrick Rose WITHOUT A QUESTION:
Steve Nash (1), Rajon Rondo (2), Derron Williams (3), Chauncey Billups (4), Jameer Nelson (5), Chris Paul (6)
Point guards that I personally would take over Derrick Rose, but you can make a case for Rose over them:
Brandon Jennings (7), Russell Westbrook (8), Tyreke Evans (9), Tony Parker (10), Devin Harris (11) (would try to make a case for Baron Davis but he doesn't make his team much better)

Derrick Rose is a very good player, but you have to keep in mind that the league is full of unbelievably talented point guards.  In my opinion Derrick Rose is not nearly a top 5 point guard YET.  He most likely will become one, but he isn't there right now.

Rose isn't a top 5 PG right now, but will easily be a future top 5 PG. Also, Westbrook, Evans, Parker & Harris cannot hold a candle to Rose.

[wadesworld]

Woah woah woah, I'm not saying I agree that Rose is a top 5 pg but kmon, Jameer Nelson? He's a great shooter but if I'm sure majority of people are going to pick Rose over Nelson. As far as age wise id take Rose over Nash bc who knows how many rounds Steve has left in the tank. Same situation with BuBuBuBillups. Maybe because I'm a Bulls fan I'm gunna say id take Rose over Rondo because of how easily rose makes it look to get to the hoop. I also think Rose is a better shooter. Said that, D Will is the 2nd best pg in the league.

I'm not even going to get into the "personal" reasons. Rose IS NEAR the top 5 best pg in the league.

Like I said, he's close, but he's not there right now.  The potential is there, but at this time he is not.  Now, if I'm starting a brand new franchise then yes, he's a top 5 point guard pick because of age.  But there is no way if you look at next season alone that you would take Rose over Nash.  And there is NO way that you take Rose over Rondo, even if you take the long-term into consideration.  Rondo is THE reason the Celtics are having success in the post season.

Rose isn't a top 5 PG right now, but will easily be a future top 5 PG. Also, Westbrook, Evans, Parker & Harris cannot hold a candle to Rose.

Based on what?  Tyreke Evans put up VERY similar numbers to what Rose did this season and he's playing in the Western Conference.  Russell Westbrook put up slightly worse numbers but he's playing next to the NBA scoring champion in Kevin Durant to go along with Jeff Green and James Harden, so his opportunities to score will be less than a guy like Rose or Evans, who has an offense running through them, and he too is in the Western Conference.  Tony Parker put up slightly worse numbers but same story as Westbrook, plus he has proven he can lead a team deep into the playoffs (and to championships).  Harris slightly worse numbers, I'll say you're right for now, but I think if he was on a better team he may be one of the stars of the league.  He was on his way to that with Dallas (awful trade by them, by the way).

[MarkCharles]

Please.  Top 5 point guards?  Take off the red and black glasses.

Point guards I would take before Derrick Rose WITHOUT A QUESTION:
Steve Nash (1), Rajon Rondo (2), Derron Williams (3), Chauncey Billups (4), Jameer Nelson (5), Chris Paul (6)
Point guards that I personally would take over Derrick Rose, but you can make a case for Rose over them:
Brandon Jennings (7), Russell Westbrook (8), Tyreke Evans (9), Tony Parker (10), Devin Harris (11) (would try to make a case for Baron Davis but he doesn't make his team much better)

Derrick Rose is a very good player, but you have to keep in mind that the league is full of unbelievably talented point guards.  In my opinion Derrick Rose is not nearly a top 5 point guard YET.  He most likely will become one, but he isn't there right now.

Rose is definitely a top5 pg. No way Jameer Nelson is even top 10, let alone top5. And Billups declined big time this year, not quite top5 material anymore. Did you see Rose against the Cavs? He was unstoppable, clearly the most talented scoring pg in the league. Plus, hes only 21 and getting better by the game. I find it absurd that you would take Jennings, Westbrook, or Devin Harris right now over Rose. Jennings and Westbrook can't shoot at all, and Devin Harris is nothing more than a stat stuffer on a historically bad team.

My order:
1-Deron Williams
2-Chris Paul (when healthy)
3-Nash
4-Rondo
5-Rose

And watch out for steph Curry-hes a stud, he has hall of fame level shooting ability and court awareness.

[MarkCharles]

Like I said, he's close, but he's not there right now.  The potential is there, but at this time he is not.  Now, if I'm starting a brand new franchise then yes, he's a top 5 point guard pick because of age.  But there is no way if you look at next season alone that you would take Rose over Nash.  And there is NO way that you take Rose over Rondo, even if you take the long-term into consideration.  Rondo is THE reason the Celtics are having success in the post season.Based on what?  Tyreke Evans put up VERY similar numbers to what Rose did this season and he's playing in the Western Conference.  Russell Westbrook put up slightly worse numbers but he's playing next to the NBA scoring champion in Kevin Durant to go along with Jeff Green and James Harden, so his opportunities to score will be less than a guy like Rose or Evans, who has an offense running through them, and he too is in the Western Conference.  Tony Parker put up slightly worse numbers but same story as Westbrook, plus he has proven he can lead a team deep into the playoffs (and to championships).  Harris slightly worse numbers, I'll say you're right for now, but I think if he was on a better team he may be one of the stars of the league.  He was on his way to that with Dallas (awful trade by them, by the way).

Rose had SIGNIFICANTLY better numbers than Harris, Parker or Westbrook. they averaged 16.9, 16 and 16.1 ppg, respectively, while Rose was 20.8 shooting 49%. I like Westbrook a lot, but he has a long way to go offensively. Just look at his fg %. I know that they play different styles, but Rose is the focal point of the opponent's defense every night, which isn't the case for Westbrook or Parker.

On another note, did anyone notice how old Parker looked this playoffs? Maybe it was just the injuries, but he seems to have lost a step. Spurs were much more dangerous with George Hill running the point.

[copious1218]

Rose had SIGNIFICANTLY better numbers than Harris, Parker or Westbrook. they averaged 16.9, 16 and 16.1 ppg, respectively, while Rose was 20.8 shooting 49%. I like Westbrook a lot, but he has a long way to go offensively. Just look at his fg %. I know that they play different styles, but Rose is the focal point of the opponent's defense every night, which isn't the case for Westbrook or Parker.

On another note, did anyone notice how old Parker looked this playoffs? Maybe it was just the injuries, but he seems to have lost a step. Spurs were much more dangerous with George Hill running the point.

I guess it depends on what you want your PG to do - if you are talking purely about scoring PGs then Rose is in the top 5 (with the likes of deron williams and rajon rondo).  If you are talking an all-around PG, I would put him just outside the top 5 behind (in no particular order) williams, paul, rondo, nash, and billups.

And as an aside - I'm not sure why everyone is hating on Jameer Nelson - he's been a solid PG once he fully recovered.  I would put him in my top 10.

[mosarsour]

My order:
1-Deron Williams
2-Chris Paul (when healthy)
3-Nash
4-Rondo
5-Rose

This looks about right to me. Westbrook is a very close 6th.

[wadesworld]

I guess it depends on what you want your PG to do - if you are talking purely about scoring PGs then Rose is in the top 5 (with the likes of deron williams and rajon rondo).  If you are talking an all-around PG, I would put him just outside the top 5 behind (in no particular order) williams, paul, rondo, nash, and billups.

And as an aside - I'm not sure why everyone is hating on Jameer Nelson - he's been a solid PG once he fully recovered.  I would put him in my top 10.

I agree with this.  In terms of scoring point guards he's in the top 5, but in terms of point guards I want running my team he's somewhere between 6-11 CURRENTLY.  Again, if I'm starting a brand new team and am looking long term I would probably take Rose 4th, but as of today he's not in my top 5.

And I also agree about Jameer.  The Magic are a MUCH better team when Nelson is healthy, as he is right now.  He's had an absolute dominant playoffs so far, just like Rondo has.

[brewcity77]

For someone talking about what LeBron would look for in a teammate, Nash and Billups aren't worth mentioning. Never mind that neither of their teams will be in the running to sign him, but in Rose he would have a player who could help him win titles for the next 7-8 years. Can't say that about Nash or Billups, so don't bother putting them in the conversation.

As far as where he will end up, it depends on what he wants. If he wants the biggest contract, he'll stay in Cleveland. If he wants mass marketability he'll go to New York. And if he wants to win titles, he'll go to Chicago. No player, not Shaq, Jordan, Kobe, Magic, Kareem, Oscar Robertson, or Tim Duncan could win a title alone. You need at least 2 top level players and a solid supporting cast. Only the Bulls have that now. Well, he could also consider Miami, but would either LBJ or D-Wade want to share the spotlight?

[wadesworld]

I find it absurd that you would take Jennings, Westbrook, or Devin Harris right now over Rose. Jennings and Westbrook can't shoot at all, and Devin Harris is nothing more than a stat stuffer on a historically bad team.

I probably wouldn't take Harris over him, but I don't think Harris is far off.  I would take Westbrook and I would take Jennings.  Jennings shot 37% from 3 point range.  He can definitely shoot the ball, it's his shot selection that needs work.  If he can work on knocking down his mid-range jumpers this summer he is going to be absolutely lethal.  And if you want to look at 1 game see 55 points, 7 games into his NBA career (highest point total in the NBA this year as well).  Or at one series look at Jennings vs. the Hawks.  He absolutely CARRIED the Bucks to a 7 game series.

[wadesworld]

And if he wants to win titles, he'll go to Chicago. No player, not Shaq, Jordan, Kobe, Magic, Kareem, Oscar Robertson, or Tim Duncan could win a title alone. You need at least 2 top level players and a solid supporting cast. Only the Bulls have that now. Well, he could also consider Miami, but would either LBJ or D-Wade want to share the spotlight?

Here's a quote of a post I made earlier.  This could be a better lineup than one that the Bulls could put together with Lebron on the team.

A starting lineup of:
- PG Baron Davis
- SG Eric Gordon
- SF Lebron James
- PF Blake Griffin
- C Chris Kaman
With Butler and Gooden (if he's not a free agent) being the first two off the bench is REALLY good.  With Kobe getting up there in basketball years (a 31 year old with 13 years of experience is much different than a 31 year old with 9 years of experience), Lebron would have the opportunity to steal the spotlight that is Hollywood from Kobe and turn a perennial bottom feeder into a championship contender.  The only downside of this is that the Clippers play in the Western Conference, where every night is a grind, compared to the JV that is the Eastern Conference.

[LastWarrior]

Here's a quote of a post I made earlier.  This could be a better lineup than one that the Bulls could put together with Lebron on the team.

It's not better than...

PG: Rose > Davis
SG: Lebron
SF: Deng >= Gordon
PF: Bosh > Griffin
C: Noah > Kaman

[MarkCharles]

I probably wouldn't take Harris over him, but I don't think Harris is far off.  I would take Westbrook and I would take Jennings.  Jennings shot 37% from 3 point range.  He can definitely shoot the ball, it's his shot selection that needs work.  If he can work on knocking down his mid-range jumpers this summer he is going to be absolutely lethal.  And if you want to look at 1 game see 55 points, 7 games into his NBA career (highest point total in the NBA this year as well).  Or at one series look at Jennings vs. the Hawks.  He absolutely CARRIED the Bucks to a 7 game series.

I guess we just agree to disagree on Harris. I was never convinced he was the type to make a team better. If he was truly an elite pg, the Mavs never would've traded him so early, or the Nets wouldn't be looking to replace him. 

Agree on Jennings, long term its a toss up between him and Rose, maybe Jennings has more upside as a true pg. He just has more holes in his game than Rose right now.

[MarkCharles]

It's not better than...

PG: Rose > Davis
SG: Lebron
SF: Deng >= Gordon
PF: Bosh > Griffin
C: Noah > Kaman

I don't think the Bulls will look to sign 2 max guys. They would have to decimate the rest of their roster to do it, and that would make signing Rose to his next contract in a couple years almost impossible. I'm sure the Chi front office would prefer Rose over Bosh or Amare both long term and right now.

[wadesworld]

Agree on Jennings, long term its a toss up between him and Rose, maybe Jennings has more upside as a true pg. He just has more holes in his game than Rose right now.

I don't think the Bulls will look to sign 2 max guys. They would have to decimate the rest of their roster to do it, and that would make signing Rose to his next contract in a couple years almost impossible. I'm sure the Chi front office would prefer Rose over Bosh or Amare both long term and right now.

Agreed and agreed.  If Bosh is in Chicago (which he'll be in Miami anyway), then Lebron isn't in Chicago (which I don't think he will be anyway).  Also, I definitely do not think Noah>Kaman.

Noah: 11 ppg, 11 rpg, 50% fg, 74% ft, 1.5 blocks/gm, 2 turnovers/gm, 2 apg
Kaman: 19 ppg, 9 rpg, 49% fg, 75% ft, 1.2 blocks/gm, 3 turnovers/gm, 2 apg

Gimme Kaman.

[GGGG]

Agreed and agreed.  If Bosh is in Chicago (which he'll be in Miami anyway), then Lebron isn't in Chicago (which I don't think he will be anyway).  Also, I definitely do not think Noah>Kaman.

Noah: 11 ppg, 11 rpg, 50% fg, 74% ft, 1.5 blocks/gm, 2 turnovers/gm, 2 apg
Kaman: 19 ppg, 9 rpg, 49% fg, 75% ft, 1.2 blocks/gm, 3 turnovers/gm, 2 apg

Gimme Kaman.

If you were going to base your opinion solely on scoring, why did you post their entire stat line?  Noah has better stats across the board with the exception of scoring, and the Bulls don't ask Noah to do a lot of scoring. 

Noah's younger and IMO would be a much better role player playing along a couple of "studs" than Kaman would.  I will also add, I was completely wrong about Noah.  I thought for sure he would be a bust.

[wadesworld]

If you were going to base your opinion solely on scoring, why did you post their entire stat line?  Noah has better stats across the board with the exception of scoring, and the Bulls don't ask Noah to do a lot of scoring. 

Noah's younger and IMO would be a much better role player playing along a couple of "studs" than Kaman would.  I will also add, I was completely wrong about Noah.  I thought for sure he would be a bust.

I'm looking at it overall.  Kaman scores 8 more ppg, Noah gets 2 more rpg, they shoot almost identical numbers, they get almost identical blocks and assists, and Kaman has 1 more turnover per game.  Even if you take those 2 extra rebounds and 1 less turnover and turn them into a field goal each, that's 6 points, still not covering the difference in points per game.  And not all those turnovers and rebounds turn into a field goal.  Overall Kaman  has better numbers.

[🏀]

I'm looking at it overall.  Kaman scores 8 more ppg, Noah gets 2 more rpg, they shoot almost identical numbers, they get almost identical blocks and assists, and Kaman has 1 more turnover per game.  Even if you take those 2 extra rebounds and 1 less turnover and turn them into a field goal each, that's 6 points, still not covering the difference in points per game.  And not all those turnovers and rebounds turn into a field goal.  Overall Kaman  has better numbers.

How large is your boner for everything against Chicago?

Not a single NBA expert would take Kaman over Noah right now.

[GGGG]

I'm looking at it overall.  Kaman scores 8 more ppg, Noah gets 2 more rpg, they shoot almost identical numbers, they get almost identical blocks and assists, and Kaman has 1 more turnover per game.  Even if you take those 2 extra rebounds and 1 less turnover and turn them into a field goal each, that's 6 points, still not covering the difference in points per game.  And not all those turnovers and rebounds turn into a field goal.  Overall Kaman  has better numbers.

But it's not just numbers.  Its about fit and the role they play within the team.  If you have Bosh, Kaman I don't think makes much sense clogging up the middle.  Noah IMO would fit much better on a front line that includes Bosh or even James.

[nyg]

Change the title of thread from "IF".  I believe he will leave now after the Cavs unless there are significant changes with personnel.  Start with the coach.