NL Central Pissing Match - 2010

[SaintPaulWarrior]

Very funny.

Does Alfonso Soriano have any options left?

I’m serious. The Cubs’ best hope of getting anything close to their money’s worth for the remaining five years and $90 million left on Soriano’s contract is to send him to the minor leagues and teach him how to play baseball.

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/cubs/2162672,chicago-cubs-alfonso-soriano-15.article

[Rollout-the-Barrel]

Couldn't have happened to a nicer guy....LaTroy, your table is ready.

Hawkins could never handle the pressure at Wrigley?

[jmayer1]

That's how it goes with set-up guys.  Very few people remember anything but your blow-ups as there aren't many tangible stats to measure you by, unlike closers (you don't hear casual baseball fans mention how many holds a guys has).  But, the fact of the matter is that Hawkins has been a very good bullpen guy for a lot of years and still looks to have good life in his fastball and a few more miles on his arm left.  The Brewers bullpen still looks to be very solid despite a few early season hiccups.

[TallTitan34]

Very few people remember anything but your blow-ups as there aren't many tangible stats to measure you by

Holds

[Benny B]

Very few people remember anything but your blow-ups as there aren't many tangible stats to measure you by...

Holds

AL Record for Most Holds in a Season by a RHP: LaTroy Hawkins

[🏀]

I find this topic appalling. Why would ANYONE try to defend LaTroy Hawkins?

Career ERA: 4.29
Career WHIP: 1.438

Just because the Brewers rented his crappy arm for the season, doesn't mean you have to slooge over his Topps card and try to make him sounds serviceable.

AL Record for Most Holds in a Season by a RHP: LaTroy Hawkins

Can I get some proof on this? Not calling you out, but holds hasn't been recorded all that long.

[MerrittsMustache]

AL Record for Most Holds in a Season by a RHP: LaTroy Hawkins

Incorrect. Another ex-Cub, Tom Gordon, holds the record with 36 for the Yankees in 2004. LaTroy's career high is 28, set in 2003 (and he actually finished behind Brendan Donnelly for most holds by a RHP in the AL that season).

http://mlb.mlb.com/stats/historical/leaders.jsp?statType=2&timeFrame=3&timeSubFrame2=4&sortByStat=HLD&baseballScope=AL&timeSubFrame=4

[jmayer1]

Holds

(you don't hear casual baseball fans mention how many holds a guys has)

I find this topic appalling. Why would ANYONE try to defend LaTroy Hawkins?

Career ERA: 4.29
Career WHIP: 1.438

Just because the Brewers rented his crappy arm for the season, doesn't mean you have to slooge over his Topps card and try to make him sounds serviceable.

Can I get some proof on this? Not calling you out, but holds hasn't been recorded all that long.

Career ERA+
Hawkins - 104
Dempster - 99
Samardzija - 80
Gorzelanny - 91
Silva - 93
Marshall - 92
Grabow - 106

Are the Cubs currently trying to replace 75% of their pitching staff, because it is unfathomable for a team as great as the Cubs to have a bunch of pitchers that are this appallling.

Nobody said Hawkins is an all-star, just that he's a pretty solid set-up guy; which he is.  To say otherwise, would be innaccurate.

[MerrittsMustache]

Career ERA+
Hawkins - 104
Dempster - 99
Samardzija - 80
Gorzelanny - 91
Silva - 93
Marshall - 92
Grabow - 106

Are the Cubs currently trying to replace 75% of their pitching staff, because it is unfathomable for a team as great as the Cubs to have a bunch of pitchers that are this appallling.

What does LaTroy Hawkins' current pitching ability have to do with the Cubs' 2010 pitching staff?

[GGGG]

So the Brewers signed Hawkins for two years?   

[wadesworld]

So the Brewers signed Hawkins for two years?   

Alfonso Soriano's 8 year contract is superb.

[NavinRJohnson]

Despite the early nightmare, I still think the Brewers bullpen, at least in the late innings, will end up being pretty solid. Of course, the starting pitching certainly stands a good chance of ravaging the relief corp with consistent 4.2 inning outings.

[Rollout-the-Barrel]

Alfonso Soriano's 8 year contract is superb.

Contract is just awful now, but Cubs did make the playoffs two years in a row with his help.  That's the problem with the must win now approach to spending lots of cash.  The money runs out at some time.
Maybe Soriano can blow leads out of the bullpen instead.

[damuts222]

 Baseball IMO more than most sports requires constant building from the draft and the minor leagues. You can sign free agents but the majority
of your players should come from your minor league system, unless your the Yankees, BoSox, etc (See Tampa Bay).

 There will always be teams that give players big contracts after one or two years, because baseball players tend to be guilty of playing harder
during their contract year and getting a payday after one good year (see Adrian Beltre). Yet bullpen's tend to shift on a year by year basis
because of bullpen pitcher inconsistency. As a Cubs fan I was happy they got Hawkins, and he didn't pan out. Yet look at most any pitcher
that comes out of the bullpen that has been in the league for 10 or so years and see how many teams he has been on.

[NavinRJohnson]

Contract is just awful now, but Cubs did make the playoffs two years in a row with his help. 

THe contract was awful whne they signed it. There was no reason to give him 8 years/

[Rollout-the-Barrel]

THe contract was awful when they signed it. There was no reason to give him 8 years/

If the Cubs had won the world series the fans wouldn't care and management would do it again.  If he averages 30+ homers and 100 rbi's the fans wouldn't care.  The ifs have not happened and the contract will continue to put limitations on making changes to the cubs roster.  Looking at the contract in the past, present, and likely future it appears a big gamble that did not pay off, but as a fan I can respect a team for going after a big time free agent trying to win the series.  (Except the yankees of course. ) It's just too convenient for me to say that contract was awful from the beginning 3-4 years later.

[MUBurrow]

Baseball IMO more than most sports requires constant building from the draft and the minor leagues. You can sign free agents but the majority of your players should come from your minor league system, unless your the Yankees, BoSox, etc (See Tampa Bay).

Agreed. The catch-22 though, is that nothing gets GMs fired quite like prospects with a ton of potential. 

[reinko]

Red Sox have one of the best farm systems in baseball.

-Lester
-Pedroia
-Youklis
-Papelbon
-Ellsbury

[Benny B]

Incorrect. Another ex-Cub, Tom Gordon, holds the record with 36 for the Yankees in 2004. LaTroy's career high is 28, set in 2003 (and he actually finished behind Brendan Donnelly for most holds by a RHP in the AL that season).

http://mlb.mlb.com/stats/historical/leaders.jsp?statType=2&timeFrame=3&timeSubFrame2=4&sortByStat=HLD&baseballScope=AL&timeSubFrame=4

My bad... I did a Google search and the first link returned was:

http://www.baseball-almanac.com/recbooks/hold_records.shtml

Evidently, that page was updated last in 2003.  I didn't notice it that until I went back.  Nevertheless, it doesn't diminish the irony that LaTroy was a league leader in holds at one point in time.

[SaintPaulWarrior]

This was a hot topics last year in Chicago because Sox fans were complaining a ton.

Let the complaining begin again.  So far this year......

"Toronto's Ricky Romero, Cleveland's Mitch Talbot and Tampa's Wade Davis have allowed three runs on nine hits in 23 innings in their first games against the Sox."

But then again they cannot hit any pitching so far this year.

[🏀]

Let the complaining begin again.  So far this year......

"Toronto's Ricky Romero, Cleveland's Mitch Talbot and Tampa's Wade Davis have allowed three runs on nine hits in 23 innings in their first games against the Sox."

But then again they cannot hit any pitching so far this year.

Nice!

[wadesworld]

Great, the Brewers put up 20 runs today.  I would not be surprised to see them not score a run this weekend.

[jmayer1]

The Pirates are perennial doormants but anytime a team wins a 3 games series with a combined score of 36-1, they have to feel pretty decent about themselves.  Of course, I wouldn't be surprised to see the Crew lose or even get swept this weekend, as their lineup and pitching is still very inconsistent.

[Rollout-the-Barrel]

Zambrano to the bullpen? Really?!

[wadesworld]

Great, the Brewers put up 20 runs today.  I would not be surprised to see them not score a run this weekend.

Can't say I didn't call this.  Unbelievable.  The Brewers are always the same.  21 straight years of the same stuff.  Go off for a series and you can be sure a sweep is coming in the next one.