Tranghese speaks - BE in trouble

[Dawson Rental]

I know that this has been brought up before but, if the Big East where to break up (which seems almost inevitable), is there a realistic chance that the Big East "leftovers" could poach the A-10 and create a basketball-centric Catholic University conference?

Hypothetical 10-team conference*...

Marquette
Notre Dame
Villanova
Georgetown
Seton Hall
St. John's
DePaul
Providence
Xavier
Dayton

It's obviously not as strong as the current Big East but it's an interesting mix and would have some good match-ups. That being said, it could end up being very top-heavy, not to mention it's risky for the bigger names schools to enter a conference with teams like DePaul and PC who are hovering near mid-major status.

(Depending on how things shake out, they could also add to the conf or replace teams who go elsewhere with St. Joe's, St. Bonnie, Siena, or even SLU or Creighton. That would weaken the conference though so it's probably not the best option.)

Anyway, maybe Chicos or someone else who's more "in the know" than I am could weigh in on this. Any realistic chance of something similar to this alignment happening?

"Any realistic chance of something similar to this alignment happening?"

No, nada.

I used to be enamored with this prospect too, but discovered that It was not gonna happen.  The reason?  The schools involved don't want to do it. The feeling is that an all Catholic school conference risks seeming too parochial to have a wide marketing appeal.  If that were true, the falloff of TV and other related revenue would doom the schools in the conference to mid-major status.  

If, (and this is a Huge if) football schools were to cast out basketball only schools from their conferences, look for a group of the above schools to fervently recruit non-Catholic private (Butler) and non-football playing* public schools (University of Northern Iowa?) to add to the mix to create a conference with a more universal appeal.  I'm not sure that I buy this line of thinking, but that's what it was as of a few years ago anyway.

Modification: *non-Division 1 football playing schools

[Dawson Rental]

"it doesn't seem like there are any proactive moves for the Big East to make on the football side unless they pulled a rabbit out of the hat and Notre Dame joined.....never going to happen."

Well, maybe, if we petitioned the Pope, a Papal edict might get them to do it.  Nah, they'd just tell him to xxxx off, too.

[Dawson Rental]

"....expanding to 96 can't happen quick enough if all this blows up"

Chicos, are you talking about expanding the NCCA b-ball tourney, or the Big East to 96 teams???

[BrewCity83]

I'm not sure what you are referring to when you say "as the $ continues to shift".  One of the results of these changes will be that the BCS conferences will be in an even more dominate position regarding raking in the revenues for "amateur" athletic contests.  Nothing attracts money like money.

That's exactly what I meant.  As the $ to the BCS conferences grows, the gap grows between the BCS football schools and everyone else.  Then we have to worry about more changes.  This will not take 50 years, it may happen in 5 years, or maybe less.

[GGGG]

The Sultan of South Wayne (may he forgive me for putting him in orange) is absolutely correct about this being entirely about TV markets.  Now that I think of it, this might very well explain Tranghese's comments.  As I stated above, the only LIKELY scenario out there is that the Big 10 picks up one team, and the affected conference replaces that one team.  In this situation, Memphis might very well lose out to Houston, in spite of its vaunted  basketball program.  Houston plays division I football (I'm not sure who's the better football program between them and Memphis right now) and they are in the fourth biggest TV market in the country.  That and concern over the residual seediness of the Calipari rein in Memphis may well put Houston ahead of Memphis for one open spot.

I'm fairly certain that UH's football program ranks about third in the mind of most Houstonites.  Texas and A&M probably have far more viewers than "Cougar High."  Houston is kind of like UWM with a football team.

It may help the BE a little...maybe even enough to justify splitting the pie another way...but it is hardly a game changer.

[MerrittsMustache]

"Any realistic chance of something similar to this alignment happening?"

No, nada.

I used to be enamored with this prospect too, but discovered that It was not gonna happen.  The reason?  The schools involved don't want to do it. The feeling is that an all Catholic school conference risks seeming too parochial to have a wide marketing appeal.  If that were true, the falloff of TV and other related revenue would doom the schools in the conference to mid-major status.  

That makes total sense. Hadn't really thought of it that way. Thanks, Little Murs!

[ChicosBailBonds]

I'm fairly certain that UH's football program ranks about third in the mind of most Houstonites.  Texas and A&M probably have far more viewers than "Cougar High."  Houston is kind of like UWM with a football team.

Maybe, but after beating Oklahoma State last year in Stillwater and then beating Texas Tech in Houston, they're trying to come back to prominence.  They have a long way to go from what they used to be in the 1970's when they were a national power, but they are making strides.

[GGGG]

Maybe, but after beating Oklahoma State last year in Stillwater and then beating Texas Tech in Houston, they're trying to come back to prominence.  They have a long way to go from what they used to be in the 1970's when they were a national power, but they are making strides.

Cmon...a couple upsets and a minor bowl game?  Please...the first good job offer their coach gets and he's gone.  This isn't Boise State, which is in many ways the "state university" of Iowa.  Houston, like many other of their ilk, are going to be decent...then terrible...then decent again.  They just don't have the resources to compete on a consistent basis - they're a half step above Rice, but about three floors below Texas.

There is a reason why the Big 12 overlooked them.

[Dawson Rental]

In the "An interesting job just opened up" thread there is a lot of detail about just how pathetic Houston's basketball facilities are.  And they ARE pathetic.  At some point Houston's AD admits "we don't really have the facilities to compete in CUSA.  Yikes!  Penders says that his son a High school coach in the Houston area had a better locker room.

[ChicosBailBonds]

In the "An interesting job just opened up" thread there is a lot of detail about just how pathetic Houston's basketball facilities are.  And they ARE pathetic.  At some point Houston's AD admits "we don't really have the facilities to compete in CUSA.  Yikes!  Penders says that his son a High school coach in the Houston area had a better locker room.

I'm very well aware of the issues there, trust me.  Mack has a tough job on his hands but he did wonders at Akron to get a new football stadium built there and he'll do wonders in Houston to get facilities done there as well.  


This is a school that has had Heisman Trophy winners, Final Fours, National Championships in multiple sports, Olympic Gold Medal Athletes, professional golfers, etc....a ton of tradition, in the 4th largest city in the US, if they can get it going they will do well.  They need a few breaks, especially with a conference but they've been there before and they can get there again if things break for them properly.

[marquette99]

Unfortunately, they are absolutely going to 14 teams, but I agree with the rest.  We will always be able to fill with great basketball teams, the whole question is whether or not the BE still has enough football to get renewed by the BCS in 2014. Unfortunately, hoops will suffer if we are no longer in the elite 6 conferences raking in BCS money.

[BuzzSucksSucks]

One thing to consider in this discussion is the viability of the school, period.  In a few years, the whole student credit system will likely be fundamentally altered, and this will affect the bottom line of the university, and not just the athletic department.  We will be unable to use play money like we've been doing, because it simply won't be an option anymore, regardless of public demand or political will.  There comes a point in every economy where the bubble bursts, reality sets in, and things like hunger dictate what things are necessities and what aren't.  All I'm saying is that whatever factors undermined the status of the Loyolas and the San Franciscos out there, pale in comparison to what's coming down the track.  A little off the topic of the Big East being in trouble, but something that definitely affects the whole picture. 

[hairy worthen]

I'm fairly certain that UH's football program ranks about third in the mind of most Houstonites.  Texas and A&M probably have far more viewers than "Cougar High."  Houston is kind of like UWM with a football team.

It may help the BE a little...maybe even enough to justify splitting the pie another way...but it is hardly a game changer.

I lived in Houston for 12 years. You are absolutely correct,  I would argue that UH football is behind A & M, UT, Texans, and any local high school team. I think the basketball team could gain some support, but the city as a whole is definitely a football city. The facilities and the area around the campus suck. There is a history of success there though so maybe if they get the right coaches and get in a better conference, they could turn it around. I still don't see UH football being important to the people in Houston.

[LON]

What's lost in all this is how bad and overrated of a product most college football is

[GGGG]

What's lost in all this is how bad and overrated of a product most college football is

In your eyes.  Clearly the marketplace doesn't agree.

[LON]

In your eyes.  Clearly the marketplace doesn't agree.

Sadly, this is fact.

[reinko]

What's lost in all this is how bad and overrated of a product most college football is

+1

[BrewCity83]

Cmon...a couple upsets and a minor bowl game?  Please...the first good job offer their coach gets and he's gone.  This isn't Boise State, which is in many ways the "state university" of Iowa.  Houston, like many other of their ilk, are going to be decent...then terrible...then decent again. 

Dude.  Boise is in Idaho.

[ChicosBailBonds]

One thing to consider in this discussion is the viability of the school, period.  In a few years, the whole student credit system will likely be fundamentally altered, and this will affect the bottom line of the university, and not just the athletic department.  We will be unable to use play money like we've been doing, because it simply won't be an option anymore, regardless of public demand or political will.  There comes a point in every economy where the bubble bursts, reality sets in, and things like hunger dictate what things are necessities and what aren't.  All I'm saying is that whatever factors undermined the status of the Loyolas and the San Franciscos out there, pale in comparison to what's coming down the track.  A little off the topic of the Big East being in trouble, but something that definitely affects the whole picture. 

Care to elaborate on what you mean by this?

[Dawson Rental]

Care to elaborate on what you mean by this?

+1

the whole student credit system will likely be fundamentally altered??????

We will be unable to use play money like we've been doing??????

[BuzzSucksSucks]

Sorry about the confusing post.  It was inappropriate to change the subject of the thread.  No need for that.  What I was getting at, was all the junk going on outside of the college hoops universe, that, in my opinion, will have major ramifications.  Here are my presuppositions:  Insolvency is a fact, our economy is just moving along now through the debasement of fiat paper, and we'll be facing the music shortly.  This means that not just the housing market will be affected like it was a year and a half ago, but everything will be affected, including multimillion dollar college sports programs.  Again, I'm sorry to hijack the thread in a superbar direction.  When I hear guys speculating about what's coming down the track in the way of realignment, I'm thinking to myself:  Fellas, do you guys watch the news?  There's a freight train coming from the other direction.  My intention was just to add that tidbit, and I didn't make my point very well.  (Plus, I could be wrong, as well.)