NY Post: Roberts to Be Fired At St. John's

[Tom Crean's Tanning Bed]

http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/college/basketball/sources_roberts_will_be_out_at_st_FlDAcnbK6Ky5bo3UVmXqHI

[chapman]

The past couple years I thought they were insane for keeping him due to poor play, a slew of transfers, etc.  Though there were a couple articles out there talking about the lack of investment in the program and things like that, which really is unfortunate when you're in NYC and have the Garden handed to you.  Roberts got the team to play hard this year, but doesn't look like much was in the recruiting pipeline, and when you're still 13th after getting the team to play hard it which makes the move easier.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Seth Greenburg mention would be interesting. 

[GuamanianTerror]

This is an unjust move. Roberts is starting to deliver the goods. I have to wonder what else is part of this decision?

[TallTitan34]

Was Cubillan's three and Lazar's steal the DAGGER for Norm?

[NavinRJohnson]

St. John's and DePaul...two sleeping giants in two of the largest markets in the country. They have both been half-a$$ing it for years, and they both are at a point where they need to decide what they want to be. They can continue down the road they have been on, or they can learn from schools like MU, Villanova, etc., and make the decisions and investments necessary to turn themselves back into real programs. If they choose the former, they might as well leave the Big East. If they choose the latter, they could both become pretty good, pretty quickly.

[ChicosBailBonds]

St. John's and DePaul...two sleeping giants in two of the largest markets in the country. They have both been half-a$$ing it for years, and they both are at a point where they need to decide what they want to be. They can continue down the road they have been on, or they can learn from schools like MU, Villanova, etc., and make the decisions and investments necessary to turn themselves back into real programs. If they choose the former, they might as well leave the Big East. If they choose the latter, they could both become pretty good, pretty quickly.

I was just going to post the same thing.  If they truly step up and want to play with the big boys, this conference gets even more crazy.  On the flip side, who knows what is going on at UCONN with Calhoun's extension.  You could see that program take a step back if he retires and the right hire not made there.

[NavinRJohnson]

This is an unjust move. Roberts is starting to deliver the goods. I have to wonder what else is part of this decision?

He's a good guy, but he has delivered no results in six years. They are in the bets conference in the world in the biggest city in the world, and the have stunk out loud as long as he's been there. With a very Junior filled team, I assume they are thinking they could be ok next year and will not be able to fire him, because once those guys are gone, it looks as if they could be right back to terrible.

Its kind of like the Mike Deane situation. He had done a decent job, but recruiting wasn't adequate, and the pipeline behind the guys like Henry and Nnamak wasn't there, and it was clear they were headed in the wrong direction. Whomever SJU hires will probably have a decent season next year, but they need to start recruiting immediately.

[bma725]

This is an unjust move. Roberts is starting to deliver the goods. I have to wonder what else is part of this decision?

Unjust?  You must be kidding.  The guy has had 6 years, that's a life time in college basketball.  He's had 1 winning season(barely) and never finished higher than 11th in the Big East.  Despite all the talk of improvement this year, they finished 13th.  His recruiting is abysmal.  He brought in 1 consensus Top 100 player since he's been there and shows no signs of turning it around on that front. St. John's has truly become an after thought among the deepest talent base in the country.  The time to go is now, before he screws it up any worse.

[GuamanianTerror]

Why does anyone put UConn in the elite category? They were sheet until two things happened: 1. BE 2. Calhoun. The BE is a constant but Calhoun is not coming back. Much will depend on the successor.

I feel the same way about Duke, too. They were sheet until K came along. Same with Zona. Personally I hope Sean Miller craps in is cheerios down there and Zona goes back to being a middle of the pack program in a mediocre conference.

[chapman]

This is an unjust move. Roberts is starting to deliver the goods. I have to wonder what else is part of this decision?

Their record and if lucky CBI bid is hardly delivering.  They replace Mason Jr. with a three star forward next year.  Then with TEN Juniors on the roster, all he has so far in the pipeline for 2011 is a 2-star point guard.  With that roster imbalance and his history of having guys transfer, has he really done enough to earn the right to "start over", especially when he put himself in that position?  And given this year's results, do you really trust Roberts to be the one to make the "all or nothing" run next year with the ten seniors?

[StillWarriors]

Why does anyone put UConn in the elite category? They were sheet until two things happened: 1. BE 2. Calhoun. The BE is a constant but Calhoun is not coming back. Much will depend on the successor.

I feel the same way about Duke, too. They were sheet until K came along. Same with Zona. Personally I hope Sean Miller craps in is cheerios down there and Zona goes back to being a middle of the pack program in a mediocre conference.

Miller will get the job done at AZ. I'd be shocked if he doesn't. The track record for the young coaches from Xavier moving on is pretty darn good.

[The Lens]

It would be great for MU if St John's became a player.  When the Big East splits we're going to need marquee non football schools.  I'm worried Nova will go the football route, maybe even Georgetown.

I worry about a conf if we're the best team in it.

[GuamanianTerror]

It would be great for MU if St John's became a player.  When the Big East splits we're going to need marquee non football schools.  I'm worried Nova will go the football route, maybe even Georgetown.

I worry about a conf if we're the best team in it.

We keep hearing about the football schools going their own way but let's get real here. BE football is an afterthought, an also ran, a  non player, a non entity, a greased pig, a red haired step child. They cannot be serious. I think MAC football is better than BE. They should take stock before ruining what is  actually the nation's best program, college hoops.

[bma725]

I feel the same way about Duke, too. They were sheet until K came along.

If you feel that way, then you don't know much about basketball.  Duke was already a great program before Coach K got there.  They'd been to 4 Final Fours, won multiple conference championships in the ACC and Southern Conference, had multiple National Player of the Year winners and Hall of Fame coaches.

[goodgreatgrand]

We keep hearing about the football schools going their own way but let's get real here. BE football is an afterthought, an also ran, a  non player, a non entity, a greased pig, a red haired step child. They cannot be serious. I think MAC football is better than BE. They should take stock before ruining what is  actually the nation's best program, college hoops.

Well, money talks. Besides, if there was a split in the BE, the football side would consist of Pitt, WV, Cuse, UConn, Rutgers, USF, Lou, Cincy. That lineup looks solid to me.

[M@RQUETTEW@RRIORS]

What happens if the rumblings of ND joining the Big Ten come to fruition.  They werent in the Big East in Football anyway.  So the Big East football stays as it is.  What would this mean for Big East basketball?  Anything?

[GuamanianTerror]

Show me the money BM. No rings. They had success but were not elite. Providence and SHU have been to Final Fours. Does that make them elite?

[mug644]

Its kind of like the Mike Deane situation. He had done a decent job, but recruiting wasn't adequate, and the pipeline behind the guys like Henry and Nnamak wasn't there, and it was clear they were headed in the wrong direction. Whomever SJU hires will probably have a decent season next year, but they need to start recruiting immediately.

Good comparison.

[dwaderoy2004]

If you feel that way, then you don't know much about basketball.  Duke was already a great program before Coach K got there.  They'd been to 4 Final Fours, won multiple conference championships in the ACC and Southern Conference, had multiple National Player of the Year winners and Hall of Fame coaches.

Funny you should cast stones BMA, because you thought Norm Roberts was a GREAT recruiter not too long ago.  And now you think his recruiting has been abysmal for all 6 years?  interesting.

http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=9286.msg79252#msg79252

[GuamanianTerror]

Funny you should cast stones BMA, because you thought Norm Roberts was a GREAT recruiter not too long ago.  And now you think his recruiting has been abysmal for all 6 years?  interesting.

http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=9286.msg79252#msg79252

How dare you challenge BM! He is a true insider, unlike you! Let him tell you so!

[chapman]

Well, money talks. Besides, if there was a split in the BE, the football side would consist of Pitt, WV, Cuse, UConn, Rutgers, USF, Lou, Cincy. That lineup looks solid to me.

That's what football consists of now as well.  I trust that there is enough history, intelligence, and maturity that they can work out the money issue as they've been able to for 5 years running.  What would the basketball side consist of for the football schools?  No longer the best conference in the land without us, Nova, Georgetown, Notre Dame, and a few doormats that give those schools enough wins to make the NCAAs year in and year out.  And as far as the doormats, are Rutgers and USF, possibly even Cincy going to be willing to cast their basketball programs into the depths because they won't be able to compete with the powerhouses that remain?  Who are they going to draw besides MAC or worse teams to make the football conference 10-12 teams and not be inferior to the Big Ten in basketball (and still remain so in football)?  Even if Nova or even Georgetown decided to play football, are we really that useless that we wouldn't be able to work out an arrangement to remain in the conference without playing football?  I doubt it.

[bma725]

Funny you should cast stones BMA, because you thought Norm Roberts was a GREAT recruiter not too long ago.  And now you think his recruiting has been abysmal for all 6 years?  interesting.

http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=9286.msg79252#msg79252

Did I say his recruiting was abysmal for all 6 years?  No, I didn't.   His recruiting for his first few years was good.  He couldn't get most of the talented kids he brought in to perform, or in some cases even stay at St. John's, but he was able to bring them in.  

The last few years(since I wrote that post 2 years ago) have been a very different story.  He devoted a lot of time and energy to Lance Stephenson, then whiffed.  He devoted a lot of time to Kevin Parrom, then whiffed.  His 2009 class hasn't performed up to expectations.  His 2010 class only includes one guy and he isn't a high level good prospect.  Then there's his nearly non-existant 2011 class.  He's got 10 juniors on his roster right now, so he'll have a boatload of scholarships available.  Instead of realizing that and focusing on the 2011 class so they don't fall off a cliff, he's only made limited inroads in the class, and gotten 1 commit.

[bma725]

Show me the money BM. No rings. They had success but were not elite. Providence and SHU have been to Final Fours. Does that make them elite?

You said they were crap.  They very clearly weren't.  Big difference between success and crap.

[GuamanianTerror]

You said they were crap.  They very clearly weren't.  Big difference between success and crap.

So is Providence College an elite program? Wisconsin must be better than Duke since the won it all back before there was a Berlin Wall.