Brewers To Erect Bud Selig Statue

[Chili]

if it wasn't for bud selling the brewers I wouldn't want baseball in Milwaukee

all you bud apologists are delusional. He f-d Milwaukee for years.

He also saved baseball in Milwaukee. Was a minority owner of the Braves and fought to keep them. When Frederick Miller died in the 50's (don't remember the year) Milwaukee was without a steward to lead the sports community. Bud tried to get the White Sox to relocate to Milwaukee but was denied. He then tried for an expansion franchise, MLB said pound sand. So he bought the Pilots and moved them here so we could have a team. He was the driving force of baseball in Milwaukee for 30 years.

Most you detractors don't know the full scope what he did. Yeah, his recent schtick might not be the best. But Bud Selig is the single most important person baseball in Wisconsin in the last 100 years, over Robin Yount and Hank Aaron.

[reinko]

If the MLBPU doesn't want to negotiate, then Selig needed to stop being such a kitten. Instead, he knew baseball was growing, and decided he didn't need the make a big fuss about it, and he had put forth his effort.

What else? You have yet to defend Bud except trying to make yourself almighty because you know so much? Did baseball prosper underneath Selig? Yes! Did steriods play a huge role in that? YES, reference 1998. Did the largest economic boom in American History help? YES!

Get serious and lay some facts on the table. What do all of us 'stupid' baseball fans need to know that you know? I came up with 12 points very easily that show Selig as the moron/scumbag that he is.

Well actually you came up with a bunch of opinions, conjecture. and 1 or 2 facts...

1994 Strike. (Coming anyway, but he oversaw it.)
~Not his fault, your own admission.
Allowed replacement players.
~Agreed, dumb.
Interleague Play (IMO).
~Opinion, not fact.  Actually saavy business-wise, and avg. fan likes it.
Pushed playoffs into November and way too late into the night.
~BFD.  And it was corrected this year.
Formed a group that ousted Fay Vincent to make him the Commish.
~Yup, along with 5 other owners who thought he was doing a crappy job, nothing illegal about it.
Allowed the Brewers to move to the NL after the 1998 expansion, making his former team considering amounts of money.
~Your point?
Pete Rose is still suspended.
~Your own opinion
Reinstated George Steinbrenner.
~Your own opinion
Commissioned the Mitchell Report, an utter failure.
~Finally, yes this was stupid, especially naming Mitchell to do it, a guy with ties to the Sox.
Couldn't keep a secret list of players, secret.
~So, your point that steroids ruined baseball for 10 years, but you then coming back and blaming Selig for the leak of said players who used this stuff that ruined a generation of baseball.  Just seems a bit off to me.
2002 All Start Game.
~Your solution?  Position players pitching?  Asking for debacle and injury.  Plus, it's an effin' exhibition game, really this makes him a scum bag?
Remember when he was charged with racketeering? Expos & Twins fans do.
~He was never charged, he was accused.  Big difference.  And that suit went where.....

[mu_hilltopper]

The Commissioner of Baseball is hired by the owners.  It's highly doubtful the owners were all up in arms because their players were hitting more doubles, triples, homers .. running faster, throwing harder.    Doubtful the owners were that concerned about the long term health of their players.  The MLBPA didn't want it, nor did the owners. 

It's amazing that there are rules against steroids TODAY, working in that environment.  Bud loves the game of baseball more than any of those turkeys.  No surprise it took a decade+.

[TallTitan34]

Drug testing must be collectively bargained! If one side (Union) does not want to negotiate it into the CBA, there is nothing the other side (Owners) can do about it.

And people act like steroid use started in 1993 when he took over. Steroid use went back well into the 80's, and no one in baseball took a stand. This is an issue overblown by people who want something to bitch about.

Bud could have put a stop to steroids whenever he wanted.  In baseball, the commish has a "best interest of baseball" clause where he can essentially do whatever needs to be done.

Bud could have, at any time, enforced drug and steroid testing.  Instead he waited until Congress got involved to begin testing, and then when they did HE TOOK CREDIT FOR IT!

SIDE NOTE:  I hate interleague play.  It ruined the All-Star game and takes away from the World Series.

[jmayer1]

Bud could have put a stop to steroids whenever he wanted.  In baseball, the commish has a "best interest of baseball" clause where he can essentially do whatever needs to be done.

Bud could have, at any time, enforced drug and steroid testing.  Instead he waited until Congress got involved to begin testing, and then when they did HE TOOK CREDIT FOR IT!

SIDE NOTE:  I hate interleague play.  It ruined the All-Star game and takes away from the World Series.

Haha, if you really believe that you need to rethink your opinions.  If Bud would have enforced drug and steroid testing without it being collectively bargained, it would have took the players about 1 second to strike.  I agree that drug testing took way too long but Bud was a driving force behind the tough testing today.  Did it take 5-10 years too long? Yes, but to lay that all at the feet of Selig is ridiculous, especially when he has done so many other great things for the game, and especially for the Brewers.

[GOMU1104]

If the MLBPU doesn't want to negotiate, then Selig needed to stop being such a kitten. Instead, he knew baseball was growing, and decided he didn't need the make a big fuss about it, and he had put forth his effort.

What else? You have yet to defend Bud except trying to make yourself almighty because you know so much? Did baseball prosper underneath Selig? Yes! Did steriods play a huge role in that? YES, reference 1998. Did the largest economic boom in American History help? YES!

Get serious and lay some facts on the table. What do all of us 'stupid' baseball fans need to know that you know? I came up with 12 points very easily that show Selig as the moron/scumbag that he is.

I am not calling ALL baseball fans stupid. I am calling you (and other fans) stupid for not acknowledging that the Union exists, and alot of the things you bitch about Bud not doing, had to be collectively bargained. Those problems cannot be solved simply by Bud "not being such a kitten."  

You dont like him, you're emotional about it, I get it. Reiko already addressed your other points, but here are some things for you to suck on.

All have happened under his watch...
-Most importantly...UNPRECEDENTED labor peace since 1995.
-Increasing revenues every single year...pretty much have doubled since 200
-Revenue sharing, including the implementation and growth of MLB's Central Fund.
-MLBAM - Worth about $450 million annually, had an IPO value of more than $2 billion...not including their recent partnership with Bloomberg.
-MLB Network
-Wild Card
-From 2000-2009...8 different world series championships ...23 of the 30 teams have made the playoffs.
-Toughest drug testing in all of professional sports.

Yes, Bud has made some mistakes...but you cant ignore the good either. And you cannot ignore the fact that the MLBPA is one of the strongest unions in pro sports, and Bud cannot just do most things without collective bargaining.

[RJax55]

And you cannot ignore the fact that the MLBPA is one of the strongest unions in pro sports, and Bud cannot just do most things without collective bargaining.

Forget pro sports... The MLBPA is one of the strongest unions, period.

Bud big problem is that he's just terrible at PR. Compare his PR skills to that of David Stern's.... There's no comparison.

[GOMU1104]

Forget pro sports... The MLBPA is one of the strongest unions, period.

Bud big problem is that he's just terrible at PR. Compare his PR skills to that of David Stern's.... There's no comparison.

Great point. Bud's public persona, and his manersims (arms up in the air at the All Star Game) can be seen as off putting, and cause him to be criticized.

[TallTitan34]

You're completly right the players would strike.  But it would be different than in 1994.  In 1994 everyone became disgusted because it was rich owners vs rich players trying to become richer.

The MLBPA would look like total horse sh*t if they completly dismissed any form of drug testing.  I'm not saying that Bud should have used his clause to enforce whatever policy he wanted, but he should have used it to make some form of testing mandatory.  The details of the testing could be worked out between the two.  

EDIT:  All he had to put on thetable was urine testing.  I don't think the unon would strike over something as basic as that.  Blood testing they would definately strike over.  While urine testing isn't a complete answer, it at least would have shown he was trying.  Instead he waited until Congress made him.

Bud didn't even try, however. He didn't acknowledge steroids as a problem even once.

Everyone knew 1998, was a complete joke yet Bud didn't do a damn thing to investigate steroids because MLB was bringing in loads of cash.  In doing so Bud tarnished the game of baseball forever.

[TallTitan34]

All have happened under his watch...
-Toughest drug testing in all of professional sports.

Because Congress made Bud do it!   But Bud will be the first to take all the credit for it.

[Chili]

You're completly right the players would strike.  But it would be different than in 1994.  In 1994 everyone became disgusted because it was rich owners vs rich players trying to become richer.

The MLBPA would look like total horse sh*t if they completly dismissed any form of drug testing.  I'm not saying that Bud should have used his clause to enforce whatever policy he wanted, but he should have used it to make some form of testing mandatory.  The details of the testing could be worked out between the two. 

Bud didn't even try, however. He didn't acknowledge steroids as a problem even once.

Everyone knew 1998, was a complete joke yet Bud didn't do a damn thing to investigate steroids because MLB was bringing in loads of cash.  In doing so Bud tarnished the game of baseball forever.

Why didn't the clean players then bitch? They were getting contracts taken. When you make this an all owner issue it just shows how you have a bone to pick. Just saying.

[TallTitan34]

Why didn't the clean players then bitch? They were getting contracts taken. When you make this an all owner issue it just shows how you have a bone to pick. Just saying.

Owners and players share the blame as well.  Bud is the guy running things though.  Whatever happens on his watch falls on him.

[Ari Gold]

For those that think revenue sharing was a good implementation, it actually isn't as great as people thing. Even if it sounds good.

The tigers and rockies are examples of teams and their owners that used the revenue sharing for the competitiveness of the league and were successful but many revenue sharing recipient teams don't improve.  Sharing doesn't attract free agents or help home grow talent. Because of how vague the rules are on revenue sharing, I believe the exact wording of the revenue sharing rules are "to increase the product on the field", the money that teams receive can go just about anywhere. This is how bad owners of cellar dwelling teams consistent turn a profit with an ever decreasingly competitive club. Examples being the Marlin's (and their mid 2000s) fire sales and Rays a team that for quite awhile averaged 70 wins but turned a huge profit. Because the Marlins cut their payroll to pennies got huge chunks of the revenue sharing and pocketed the profit. The Royals are in that mix too. All those teams have cut salaries, and have seen a decline in ticket sales while their profits and overall club value have gone up.

The Commissioners Blue Ribbon Panel on Baseball Economic's math is way over my head but the effects of revenue sharing haven't been as great as people believe.

[Chili]

Owners and players share the blame as well.  Bud is the guy running things though.  Whatever happens on his watch falls on him.

Bud doesn't work for the players, Donald Fier did. Bud works for the owners.

[GOMU1104]

Owners and players share the blame as well.  Bud is the guy running things though.  Whatever happens on his watch falls on him.

Will you then acknowledge the good, as well?

[GOMU1104]

For those that think revenue sharing was a good implementation, it actually isn't as great as people thing. Even if it sounds good.

The tigers and rockies are examples of teams and their owners that used the revenue sharing for the competitiveness of the league and were successful but many revenue sharing recipient teams don't improve.  Sharing doesn't attract free agents or help home grow talent. Because of how vague the rules are on revenue sharing, I believe the exact wording of the revenue sharing rules are "to increase the product on the field", the money that teams receive can go just about anywhere. This is how bad owners of cellar dwelling teams consistent turn a profit with an ever decreasingly competitive club. Examples being the Marlin's (and their mid 2000s) fire sales and Rays a team that for quite awhile averaged 70 wins but turned a huge profit. Because the Marlins cut their payroll to pennies got huge chunks of the revenue sharing and pocketed the profit. The Royals are in that mix too. All those teams have cut salaries, and have seen a decline in ticket sales while their profits and overall club value have gone up.

The Commissioners Blue Ribbon Panel on Baseball Economic's math is way over my head but the effects of revenue sharing haven't been as great as people believe.

While there are flaws to the system, it did transfer over $400 million to the low revenue teams after last season. One glaring flaw, as you refer to, is that teams are not required to spend those transfers directly on payroll.

It used to be more vague, but the the 2007 CBA, addressed it. The wording in the CBA (Article XXIV(B)(5)(a)):

"(a) A principal objective of the Revenue sharing plan is to promote the growth of the Game and the industry on a individual club and on an aggregate basis. Accordingly, each Club shall use its revenue sharing receipts (from the Base Plan, the Central Fund Component and the Commissioner’s Discretionary Fund) in an effort to improve its performance on the field Each Payee Club, no later than April 1, shall report on the performance-related uses to which it put its revenue sharing receipts in the preceding Revenue Sharing Year. Consistent with his authority under the Major League Constitution, the Commissioner may impose penalties on any club that violates this obligation."



The MLBPA went after the Marlins last fall, and won...and there are rumors that they will go after other teams that seem to be trying to keep payroll down. The Marlins had to agree to dedicate more money to payroll...a couple weeks later they signed Josh Johnson.  The Owners are not pocketing it, but rather using the "improving performance on the field" phrase to work in the gray area.

Take the Pirates...17 consecutive losing seasons, but still making a profit.  Well, instead of dedicating their $ directly to payroll, they built a new complex in the Dominican Republic ($5.4 million) and spent more money on draft pick signing bonuses over the past two years, than any other team (almost $19 million). They are dedicating money to improving performance, just not spending it directly on payroll.

You cant necessary require that teams spend a certain amount of money on payroll, in fact...the UNION has rejected such proposals. In 2003 and 2007, the Owners proposed a minimum salary floor, but it was the UNION who rejected it...as they are in favor of a completely free market, and see a floor as one more step towards a cap.


In the end, it's probably all Bud's fault

[TallTitan34]

Will you then acknowledge the good, as well?

I will acknowledge the good, but the way he tarnished the game makes the bad outweigh the good by a great margin.

[GOMU1104]

I will acknowledge the good, but the way he tarnished the game makes the bad outweigh the good by a great margin.

Thats right, I forgot...Bud actually injected the players himself.

[Chili]

Thats right, I forgot...Bud actually injected the players himself.

Actually, he was the one pushing the stuff. I also heard he is the missing person from the Balco case.

[TallTitan34]

You guys are outta your mind if you think Bud played no role in the steroids era.

[GOMU1104]

You guys are outta your mind if you think Bud played no role in the steroids era.

I heard he invented steroids.

[copious1218]

I heard he invented steroids.

I thought that was common knowledge?

[reinko]

If Bud only would have sent out this fax to all the teams.

Dear steriod users,
Knock it off.  I really mean it.  It's bad, I swear.  Pretty please?

Best regards,
Al Selig

[TallTitan34]

Instead of your smart ass comments just answer this question.  Yes or No.

Does any blame fall on Bud Selig for the advancement of steroids in Major League Baseball?

[GOMU1104]

Instead of your smart ass comments just answer this question.  Yes or No.

Does any blame fall on Bud Selig for the advancement of steroids in Major League Baseball?

Yes.

Now you answer this question, Yes or No:

Does any blame fall on Don Fehr for the advancement of steroids in Major League Baseball?