Loyola Maryland beats IU on a 4 point play at the end.

[4everwarriors]

I, for one, have ripped Rick a new one for both the way he left and the timing of his departure on several occasions. Furthermore, I know Rick on more than just a fan/coach level. What he did to MU was both ill-timed and self-centered.

[Fullodds]

Indiana has too much talent on the team to lose, AT HOME, to a team like Loyola Maryland.  Either TC's kids are not as good originally thought or he is not doing a good job preparing them for games and coaching in the game. 

[Benny B]

It's hard to take joy in IU losing these days... first off, they've been doing a lot of that recently, and secondly they're just not that good.  I understand the whole wanting TC to fall on his face and IU should have one that game, but when a mediocre team loses to another mediocre team, is that really worth gloating about?

If TC was coaching at Radford, would you be talking about that barn-burning loss to William & Mary last night?

[Lennys Tap]

It's hard to take joy in IU losing these days... first off, they've been doing a lot of that recently, and secondly they're just not that good.  I understand the whole wanting TC to fall on his face and IU should have one that game, but when a mediocre team loses to another mediocre team, is that really worth gloating about?

If TC was coaching at Radford, would you be talking about that barn-burning loss to William & Mary last night?

When was the last time Radford had a top 10 recruiting class or a McDonald's AA like this years IU team? Sorry, losing to the Loyola Marylands and the Boston Universitys of the world this far into Crean's tenure is an embarassment to Indiana. The natives are getting restless.

[4everwarriors]

As is now crystal clear, Crean can only walk on water if it's frozen or DWade is pulling him along.

[Chicago_inferiority_complexes]

Chico

I have no idea as to the stories of him being a supreme prick but I am still dismayed at the utter lack of class or respect he demonstrated in leaving MU. In particular, the lack of courtesy to HIS players is mind boggling. What is so difficult about asking IU to sit on the news for 24 hours so he could properly debrief his players and his employer. It is outrageous the team members had to hear about his departure from ESPN. I live in a world that demands team work so the stories I have heard regarding his self-centered behavior sickens me. If the manner in which he handled his departure from MU is indicative there is probably credence to the many stories about his ego.

I think this pretty much sums it up. No one who is NOT associated with the Athletic Department should be that bitter, except for the tangential connection of having graduated from the same school that Crean coached. A person is properly bitter if he was personally screwed, I think. (And the players were most definitely screwed in having to hear about his departure from ESPN while he called Marquette's recruits from a Marquette telephone to tell them he wished to recruit them from Indiana.) What anyone should/could be, even people who have no connection to Marquette, is utterly disgusted at the personality that is Tom Crean.

And, hence, enjoy when a egotistical maniac falls on his face. The same way we would and do enjoy it when Bo Ryan falls on his face. (Or fill-in-the-blank politician.)

[Benny B]

When was the last time Radford had a top 10 recruiting class or a McDonald's AA like this years IU team? Sorry, losing to the Loyola Marylands and the Boston Universitys of the world this far into Crean's tenure is an embarrassment to Indiana. The natives are getting restless.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I would suspect that this isn't the first time an AA has been on a poor team and it probably won't be the last time that a nationally-ranked recruiting class fails to live up to expectations.  I'm not buying the hype... IU just plain sucks.

Also, IU started embarrassing itself years before TC arrived... I have enough IU grads amongst my in-laws and friends to start my own Hoosier Alumni Association, and I can tell you, most of the natives stopped caring a long time ago.

It's just a matter of time before the legend that is TC is lost into oblivion.  There's no need to chronicle every step of the downfall, just sit back and enjoy the view.

[rocky_warrior]

Again...we should have NO TROUBLE BEATING PITTSBURGH THIS YEAR!!  ZERO!  

Gee Chicos, if we lose to Pitt does that mean we're a worse team than IU?

Or does it mean Buzz is a worse coach than TC?

You're setting this up so much, I'm just trying to figure out what preposterous statement you'll make if we do happen to lose.

The fact that you can't see your own overly pessimistic views of Buzz is kinda' funny.  Yes, you're "just being honest", and you think you're evaluating him without prejudices, but it's apparent to about everyone that you're not.  Sure Lenny and Hayward seem to have a personal vendetta against you, but some of what they say is actually accurate.

[muwarrior87]

Gee Chicos, if we lose to Pitt does that mean we're a worse team than IU?

Or does it mean Buzz is a worse coach than TC?

Well, UW-GB is better than Duke by that logic so I'd say yes. 

[Hards Alumni]

Gee Chicos, if we lose to Pitt does that mean we're a worse team than IU?

Or does it mean Buzz is a worse coach than TC?

You're setting this up so much, I'm just trying to figure out what preposterous statement you'll make if we do happen to lose.

The fact that you can't see your own overly pessimistic views of Buzz is kinda' funny.  Yes, you're "just being honest", and you think you're evaluating him without prejudices, but it's apparent to about everyone that you're not.  Sure Lenny and Hayward seem to have a personal vendetta against you, but some of what they say is actually accurate.

I'll boil it down.

Chicos is the "I told you so" guy on this board.  Every board has one, and Chicos is ours.

We have other "I told you so" guys on this board, but few are as correct as often as Chicos (see HAYWARD, MR., and Tap, Lenny's)

[CTWarrior]

I will always take an extreme amount of pleasure in watching Tom Crean fail, as I wish him nothing but total misery in life.  I admit I'm a bitter person.  I can hold a grudge forever.  Today was a great Christmas gift for me. 

+1

I know I shouldn't care and I liked Crean fine while he was here, but I sure like to see him lose now.  And I can't tell you why I don't feel the same way about Majerus or O'Neill, which would, as Chico points out, be perfectly logical.  I actually root for O'Neill (probably because I feel like he is the guy who actually rescued Marquette from basketball oblivion) and I am ambivalent about Majerus.

[MR.HAYWARD]

Ive said this before Iu's recruiting class is not very good.  the fact the it was top 10 or top 15 or whatever had to do with a few different things.  One of which was sheer size and the other being that it was feel good story of Tommy naismith resurrecting a once proud fallen giant.  that boosted their ranking more than a few notches.

However, when one looks at the class they have two very solid players in Creek and Watford, those two could play for anyone and will be good for 4 years ala a Wesley or Jerel.  the rest of the class is made up of the very same type of players that infuriated people at MU.  that stiff Capobianco would probably have signed with MU had TC stayed.  Hulls and the rest of that class are no different than guys like Acker, Lott, Hazel, Menard and Kinsella 

[ChicosBailBonds]

Chico

I have no idea as to the stories of him being a supreme prick but I am still dismayed at the utter lack of class or respect he demonstrated in leaving MU. In particular, the lack of courtesy to HIS players is mind boggling. What is so difficult about asking IU to sit on the news for 24 hours so he could properly debrief his players and his employer. It is outrageous the team members had to hear about his departure from ESPN. I live in a world that demands team work so the stories I have heard regarding his self-centered behavior sickens me. If the manner in which he handled his departure from MU is indicative there is probably credence to the many stories about his ego.

I don't disagree with you....but I ask you, was Kevin O'Neill's departure less PRICKISH?  When he's wearing a Tennessee sweatshirt among MU fans and rubbing it their faces?  How do you think New Orleans fans felt about Buzz Williams leaving and the way he did it?

Most coaching departures leave fans jilted, bitter, resentful, etc.

Very few come off as, what a great guy.  Whether it was Brian Kelly last week, Tom Crean, Ben Howland, Sean Miller, Tony Bennett, etc.....fans will criticize to the nth degree how it was done.     And if people already had a burr up their ass for the coach, then they will find even more reason to hate how it was done.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Indiana has too much talent on the team to lose, AT HOME, to a team like Loyola Maryland.  Either TC's kids are not as good originally thought or he is not doing a good job preparing them for games and coaching in the game. 

Florida has too much talent on that team to lose, AT HOME, to a team like South Alabama last night.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Gee Chicos, if we lose to Pitt does that mean we're a worse team than IU?

Or does it mean Buzz is a worse coach than TC?

You're setting this up so much, I'm just trying to figure out what preposterous statement you'll make if we do happen to lose.

The fact that you can't see your own overly pessimistic views of Buzz is kinda' funny.  Yes, you're "just being honest", and you think you're evaluating him without prejudices, but it's apparent to about everyone that you're not.  Sure Lenny and Hayward seem to have a personal vendetta against you, but some of what they say is actually accurate.

Rocky, I'm just playing the same game everyone else is.


If Crean sucked as a coach, human being and recruiter....than the guy we have now should yiield BETTER results than Crean did since he's a better coach, better human being and better recruiter.  Simple logic.   


If really crappy coach and recruiter can beat Pitt on a neutral court, then by all means great coach and great recruiter should have ZERO PROBLEM beating PITT AT HOME!

[ChicosBailBonds]

+1

I know I shouldn't care and I liked Crean fine while he was here, but I sure like to see him lose now.  And I can't tell you why I don't feel the same way about Majerus or O'Neill, which would, as Chico points out, be perfectly logical.  I actually root for O'Neill (probably because I feel like he is the guy who actually rescued Marquette from basketball oblivion) and I am ambivalent about Majerus.

That's what I find so interesting from a psychological point of view.

O'Neill...complete dick in public, represented the university poorly, two losing seasons, took us to the Sweet 16, only stayed 5 years and crapped on alums and the university constantly.  Left for a WOMEN'S COLLEGE BASKETBALL SCHOOL.  No bitterness from fans.  (hey, he drank with them and played golf)

Majerus...had his own issues, never even made the NCAAs, left MU high and dry in the Summer where MU could get no real good coach.  Coached a whopping 3 years.  LEFT TO BECOME AN ASSISTANT WITH THE #$^# BUCKS.  No bitterness

Crean....dick in private but mostly vanilla in public (didn't drink, didn't publicly cheat on his wife, etc), stayed 9 years (longer than anyone since McGuire), took MU to Final Four, got MU in Big East, never a losing season, 98% graduation rate, got MU more publicity than ANYONE has ever at MU not named McGuire, Al McGuire Center takes in 70% of building donations during Final Four year, etc, etc.  LEFT TO GO TO ONE OF THE FIVE GREATEST PROGRAMS IN NCAA HISTORY.  Actually HIRED Buzz Williams (who those so bitter about Crean ironically love) to MU and pushed Buzz to be head coach at MU.   COMPLETE BITTERNESS

I find it fascinating.

Makes for an interesting psychological case study. 

[79Warrior]

That's what I find so interesting from a psychological point of view.

O'Neill...complete dick in public, represented the university poorly, two losing seasons, took us to the Sweet 16, only stayed 5 years and crapped on alums and the university constantly.  Left for a WOMEN'S COLLEGE BASKETBALL SCHOOL.  No bitterness from fans.  (hey, he drank with them and played golf)

Majerus...had his own issues, never even made the NCAAs, left MU high and dry in the Summer where MU could get no real good coach.  Coached a whopping 3 years.  LEFT TO BECOME AN ASSISTANT WITH THE #$^# BUCKS.  No bitterness

Crean....dick in private but mostly vanilla in public (didn't drink, didn't publicly cheat on his wife, etc), stayed 9 years (longer than anyone since McGuire), took MU to Final Four, got MU in Big East, never a losing season, 98% graduation rate, got MU more publicity than ANYONE has ever at MU not named McGuire, Al McGuire Center takes in 70% of building donations during Final Four year, etc, etc.  LEFT TO GO TO ONE OF THE FIVE GREATEST PROGRAMS IN NCAA HISTORY.  Actually HIRED Buzz Williams (who those so bitter about Crean ironically love) to MU and pushed Buzz to be head coach at MU.   COMPLETE BITTERNESS

I find it fascinating.

Makes for an interesting psychological case study. 

Completely agree with your points.

[Skatastrophy]

And now Chicos delivers the rare quadruple-post.  Nice.

[jmayer1]

Florida has too much talent on that team to lose, AT HOME, to a team like South Alabama last night.

Upsets happen.  However, Indiana isn't getting upset.  They are just bad, plain and simple. IU should not be losing to teams like this on a regular basis given their "stellar" recruiting classes (which you have trumpeted over and over as being better than Buzz's)

Yes, most fans feel "jilted, bitter, resentful, etc." after a coach leaves but that doesn't mean that all coaching departures are handled the same way.  Brian Kelly was honest with his players, telling them that he was going to meet with ND and listen to what they had to say.  TC took off in the middle of the night like a p*ssy and only talked to his players after they found out the surprising news on the TV (O'Neil & Majerus also handled their leavings like bit$hes).  I thank Crean for what he did when he was here, but it is becoming more and more obvious that the guy is a total prick who got extremely lucky with Wade and is only a good recruiter when there is a lot of pt to sell.  If TC ever makes another final four, I would be far beyond surprised.  In 10 years, TC will be either be the coach at a mid-major or an assistant at an NBA or major college team.

If Buzz does not exceed what Crean did, sans Wade (congrats to TC for that, but let's be honest, that was lightning in a bottle), I would say that will be a huge disappointment.

[4everwarriors]

That's what I find so interesting from a psychological point of view.

O'Neill...complete dick in public, represented the university poorly, two losing seasons, took us to the Sweet 16, only stayed 5 years and crapped on alums and the university constantly.  Left for a WOMEN'S COLLEGE BASKETBALL SCHOOL.  No bitterness from fans.  (hey, he drank






 with them and played golf)









Please add:
Was lucky enough to serve as coach while DWade, whowas only offered by DePaul and Illinois State, fell into his lap.

Majerus...had his own issues, never even made the NCAAs, left MU high and dry in the Summer where MU could get no real good coach.  Coached a whopping 3 years.  LEFT TO BECOME AN ASSISTANT WITH THE #$^# BUCKS.  No bitterness

Crean....dick in private but mostly vanilla in public (didn't drink, didn't publicly cheat on his wife, etc), stayed 9 years (longer than anyone since McGuire), took MU to Final Four, got MU in Big East, never a losing season, 98% graduation rate, got MU more publicity than ANYONE has ever at MU not named McGuire, Al McGuire Center takes in 70% of building donations during Final Four year, etc, etc.  LEFT TO GO TO ONE OF THE FIVE GREATEST PROGRAMS IN NCAA HISTORY.  Actually HIRED Buzz Williams (who those so bitter about Crean ironically love) to MU and pushed Buzz to be head coach at MU.   COMPLETE BITTERNESS

I find it fascinating.

Makes for an interesting psychological case study. 

[ChicosBailBonds]

Upsets happen.  However, Indiana isn't getting upset.  They are just bad, plain and simple. IU should not be losing to teams like this on a regular basis given their "stellar" recruiting classes (which you have trumpeted over and over as being better than Buzz's)

Yes, most fans feel "jilted, bitter, resentful, etc." after a coach leaves but that doesn't mean that all coaching departures are handled the same way.  Brian Kelly was honest with his players, telling them that he was going to meet with ND and listen to what they had to say.  TC took off in the middle of the night like a p*ssy and only talked to his players after they found out the surprising news on the TV (O'Neil & Majerus also handled their leavings like bit$hes).  I thank Crean for what he did when he was here, but it is becoming more and more obvious that the guy is a total prick who got extremely lucky with Wade and is only a good recruiter when there is a lot of pt to sell.  If TC ever makes another final four, I would be far beyond surprised.  In 10 years, TC will be either be the coach at a mid-major or an assistant at an NBA or major college team.

If Buzz does not exceed what Crean did, sans Wade (congrats to TC for that, but let's be honest, that was lightning in a bottle), I would say that will be a huge disappointment.

No, actually I haven't.  They've had ONE stellar recruiting class, not classes.  Secondly, they had NO ONE ON THEIR team, other than that class....they didn't have a Big East 1st Conference pre season pick, for example.

This is why you guys make zero sense when you compare the two.  It's one thing to have a top 15 recruiting class that also has juniors and seniors already there to show them the way, take up the leadership role, etc.

It's quite another to have a top 15 recruiting class and have no one else on the team that has ever started a game in their life.

So when you guys roll out the top recruiting class nonsense without those essential nuggets of information, you're being disingenious.   

IU might as well had the death penalty, their roster last year returned ONE PLAYER with 29 minutes logged total in the season.  Contemplate that for a second.   It's going to take more than 1 top 15 recruiting class, it's going to take MANY because no one else was there, no seniors, no juniors, no starters, nothing.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

That's what I find so interesting from a psychological point of view.

O'Neill...complete dick in public, represented the university poorly, two losing seasons, took us to the Sweet 16, only stayed 5 years and crapped on alums and the university constantly.  Left for a WOMEN'S COLLEGE BASKETBALL SCHOOL.  No bitterness from fans.  (hey, he drank with them and played golf)

Majerus...had his own issues, never even made the NCAAs, left MU high and dry in the Summer where MU could get no real good coach.  Coached a whopping 3 years.  LEFT TO BECOME AN ASSISTANT WITH THE #$^# BUCKS.  No bitterness

Crean....dick in private but mostly vanilla in public (didn't drink, didn't publicly cheat on his wife, etc), stayed 9 years (longer than anyone since McGuire), took MU to Final Four, got MU in Big East, never a losing season, 98% graduation rate, got MU more publicity than ANYONE has ever at MU not named McGuire, Al McGuire Center takes in 70% of building donations during Final Four year, etc, etc.  LEFT TO GO TO ONE OF THE FIVE GREATEST PROGRAMS IN NCAA HISTORY.  Actually HIRED Buzz Williams (who those so bitter about Crean ironically love) to MU and pushed Buzz to be head coach at MU.   COMPLETE BITTERNESS

I find it fascinating.

Makes for an interesting psychological case study. 

I think time is a big factor here.

In 10 years, you will probably see a softening on Crean, especially if MU struggles.

The real haters will always hate, but the average poster who just has a bad taste in his mouth with wear out over time.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I love the "lucky enough to have Dwade" comments as well.  Funny, Dwade doesn't seem to have all this bitterness about the guy that you guys do.

He's the one that got him, plain and simple.  Great players make great coaches.  Always been that way.  If bad human being, bad recruiter, bad coach can land that type of talent, then I sure hope great human being, great coach, great recruiter can get lucky a few times, too.

Whether you guys like it or not, Crean and Wade are a package deal.  I know some of you would ilke to put white out on your television screen and pretend that didn't happen, but it did.  Along with Novak, Diener, etc.  They came to play for Crean.  So did Tyshawn Taylor.

I, too, will be very disappointed if Buzz doesn't equal what Crean did once the program was reestablished....that is, post season EVERY year (mostly NCAA), 95% + graduation rates, upper half of the Big East finishes, kids representing the school well, etc.  I think Buzz can do it, I have every confidence he will.

[Cooby Snacks]

I think time is a big factor here.

In 10 years, you will probably see a softening on Crean, especially if MU struggles.

The real haters will always hate, but the average poster who just has a bad taste in his mouth with wear out over time.

We'll see.  This is by no means a perfect analogy, but I think Crean is a coaching equivalent to the corporate stoolie who is able to brown nose his way up the ladder despite his somewhat limited professional acumen, for whom the word "relationship" signifies only a means of leverage.  (Of course, when a person is no longer useful, the relationship ends.  Note how Crean's trumpeting of his friendship with Kelvin Sampson mysteriously ended on April 1, 2008.)

Everything with him comes off as plastic--the hairplugs, tanning, the personality drawn from self-help and bulls--- management theory books.    Cetainly some of it is jealousy, but people hate to see a guy like that succeed.

[Lennys Tap]

I'll boil it down.

Chicos is the "I told you so" guy on this board.  Every board has one, and Chicos is ours.

We have other "I told you so" guys on this board, but few are as correct as often as Chicos (see HAYWARD, MR., and Tap, Lenny's)

So every board has ONE "I told you so guy". Except for the other "I told you so guys". Can't "boil it down" any better than that.