The future of this team

[tower912]

I cannot begin to express how thrilled I am with the play of this team so far.   Watching us upset both Xavier and UM was awesome.  Buycks and DJO are living up to their hype and not down to the typical JUCO expectations.   Acker and Cubi have gotten better and are playing solidly and under control.   Lazar and JB are who we thought they were. (Does Dennis Green have to be paid every time somebody uses that phrase?)  But I see clouds on the horizon.    How much better can this team be with the rotation it currently has?    We may have peaked.   Now, our peak is a helluva lot better than my pessimism led me to believe.    But if we continue to get very little from Fulce, Jeronne, and EWill (anything from Yous this season is a bonus), how much better can we be than what we have already shown?    We have played two nearly flawless games against good teams.  And while there is now hope and optimism and relief that (A) we don't suck and (B) Buzz can coach, the conference is going to be brutal.       

[mu_hilltopper]

Wow.  Peaked 6 games in to the season?  Heck, one could argue the first 4 games were just exhibitions, so the only ones that count were the last two.  So we peaked about 26 hours into the season.  A new record.

I don't think we've peaked.   Lazar and Acker, they've probably peaked.   Fulce may have peaked too, but that's not definite.  EWill, DJO, Buycks have plenty of growth ahead.  Butler is playing at a high level, but he has some additional upside.   Cubi's trend is up as well.  Mbao .. can only get better.

The only downside of what just happened in the last 2 days is that we will no longer sneak up on anyone.

Edit: Maymon!  I forgot him.  Tons of growth in the next 3 months.

[Marquette84]

I cannot begin to express how thrilled I am with the play of this team so far.   Watching us upset both Xavier and UM was awesome.  Buycks and DJO are living up to their hype and not down to the typical JUCO expectations.   Acker and Cubi have gotten better and are playing solidly and under control.   Lazar and JB are who we thought they were. (Does Dennis Green have to be paid every time somebody uses that phrase?)  But I see clouds on the horizon.    How much better can this team be with the rotation it currently has?    We may have peaked.   Now, our peak is a helluva lot better than my pessimism led me to believe.    But if we continue to get very little from Fulce, Jeronne, and EWill (anything from Yous this season is a bonus), how much better can we be than what we have already shown?    We have played two nearly flawless games against good teams.  And while there is now hope and optimism and relief that (A) we don't suck and (B) Buzz can coach, the conference is going to be brutal.       

I'm just wondering if you apply the same logic to everyone else.

Is Georgetown's peak only one point better than Temple?  Is UConn really only 9 points better than Wililam & Mary or Hofstra (or only 11 points better than Colgate)?  Is ND's ceiling below Northwestern?  Is Villanova pretty much on par with George Mason based on their one point win?

Outside of Syracuse and WVU, I think we're the only other team in conference that has both won its serious non-conference tests and has not struggled with a cupcake.  Usually that's a sign of strength--not weakness.

Struggling against the weak sisters of the poor is a sign of clouds forming.  Going on the road and handing the #15 team in the country a double-digit loss is not.

[ecompt]

I would just hope we don't get caught up with what's happened so far. We will have nights where we get our butts kicked by a bigger, more physical team. There will be other nights where we just simply outhustle more talented teams and steal a victory. I don't think many of us expected this, so let's enjoy the ride.

[duanewade]

The chronic negative talk on this board is really getting old. Of course half the board never expected this because they are negative about everything...now we are doing well and they are somewhat happy and very surprised yet are still claiming the sky will be falling very soon.

I for one know we'll probably have some losses but love Buzz Williams and love what he has done this far and think great days are ahead of us for both this year and after.

My glass is half full and I'm not conceding any losses until they happen! 

[NCMUFan]

Peaked?  How crazy is that.  Buycks, DJO, Maymon and Fulce have effectively two major games under their belt.  Coobey and Acker just starting to get consistent major minutes.  Butler is still refining his game.

[LA]

Peaked?  How crazy is that.  Buycks, DJO, Maymon and Fulce have effectively two major games under their belt.  Coobey and Acker just starting to get consistent major minutes.  Butler is still refining his game.

+1

Give Maymon, Fulce and Ewill a break; they are TWO significant games into their college careers. Outside of top 15 recruits you don't see to many players dominating in their first couple games.

[ozmetal71]

Can't we just enjoy the fact that, as of six games into the season, this team is playing a lot better than just about anyone anticipated?  Yes, we are going to get beaten badly at times, and yes, we are going to surprise some people at times too.  That is what young teams do.  I am very impressed with how the team seems to be coming together and playing better with each game.

Also, the talk of the team 'peaking' is, to be frank, stupid.  I don't understand the mentality of fans who are always looking for the negative, or who are always cautioning against some phantom worry.  Some posters need to grow man parts and quit shivering in a corner.

Marquette may be a lot better than people thought at the beginning of the year, and is playing well right now.  We are going to take our lumps in the conference, but I think that those calling for a 12th place finish should probably adjust that prediction. 

If we beat FSU tomorrow, I expect to see posts calling for us to worry about overlooking Presbyterian, or how we will get rolled in Madison, yadda yadda yadda.

We're 6-0 right now with two really nice quality wins already.  Enjoy it.

[JakeBarnes]

Can't we just enjoy the fact that, as of six games into the season, this team is playing a lot better than just about anyone anticipated?  Yes, we are going to get beaten badly at times, and yes, we are going to surprise some people at times too.  That is what young teams do.  I am very impressed with how the team seems to be coming together and playing better with each game.

Also, the talk of the team 'peaking' is, to be frank, stupid.  I don't understand the mentality of fans who are always looking for the negative, or who are always cautioning against some phantom worry.  Some posters need to grow man parts and quit shivering in a corner.

Marquette may be a lot better than people thought at the beginning of the year, and is playing well right now.  We are going to take our lumps in the conference, but I think that those calling for a 12th place finish should probably adjust that prediction. 

If we beat FSU tomorrow, I expect to see posts calling for us to worry about overlooking Presbyterian, or how we will get rolled in Madison, yadda yadda yadda.

We're 6-0 right now with two really nice quality wins already.  Enjoy it.

Agreed.  I'm joining the Buzz theory of things and just taking it one game at a time.  Right now, just happy for the wins the team has put up so far, and look forward to seeing how they fare in Big East play down the road.  But for now... take each non conference one game at a time.

[downtown85]

I actually think this is a worthwhile topic.  I would say last year's veteran team had less room for improvement throughout the season than this year's team.  JB was the only player to truly develop throughout last season.  I would say that most of this team has room to develop during the season and they can really be special in February and March.  The areas where I see development possible in each of the players is as follows:

Maymon: he can be ALOT better at both ends of the court as the season wears on. 

Butler:  Despite how good he is, I still feel he has areas of his game that can explode.  For example, I think if Buzz unleashes him and allows him to shoot it from anywhere on the court, he will be as difficult to guard as Hayward.

Buycks: He still looks tenative.  He will get better on both offense and defense as he gets more comfortable in the system. 

DJO:  I feel he is just getting started.  He could be averaging 17 ppg by the end of the season. He truly adds the extra dimension:  a penetrating guard who can pass but also hit the 3.  He may not still be at 100% health and conditioning-wise yet!

EWill:  I still think he will come around and bring some valuable minutes the second half of the season.  I just hope he give 110% in practice and gets a chance to get on the floor. 

Hayward, Acker, Fulce, and Cubillan will all contribute but I do not see much more improvement from their current, albiet productive, level.  Mbao will improve no doubt throughout the season but I do not think we will be at the level to contribute meaningful minutes.

[jtsanto]

The chronic negative talk on this board is really getting old. Of course half the board never expected this because they are negative about everything.

There is no way that you thought this team was going to win two in Orlando( more importantly the way they did). I for one thought this was a rebuilding year, and thought we were NIT bound. I don't think that makes me negative it makes me a realist. We lost three of the best players in our teams history, that is a lot to overcome. Yes there are negative people on here but at times it is important to discount them and look pat their posts. Have fun with this entire season cause next year we go back to being hunted!!! GO MU!!!!!

[MarquetteDano]

I guess I am playing Switzerland but I agree with everyone here.  There can be a negativity taken from the question "have we peaked?"

However, one of my frustrations over the last 3 years, other the Lazar and Jimmy, is that we have not had a player improve as the season progresses.  We have players improve year over year but not during the season.  Thus, what we see in December is not that different from what we see in March.  On the other hand, the powerhouse teams always seem to have 2-3 players improve during the season (Looeyville comes to mind as a perfect example).

This year and next I really think we will be much better in March than December.  I am confident Maymon will be much better by March and we will probably see various newbies get better as well (Buycks, DJO, EWill, etc.).  That is awesome.  We will have bumps in the road but this team WILL be better in March than it is right now (caveat:  barring injury!).

[Murffieus]

We certainly appear to be in mid to late season form-----I don't see how we can play any better than the last two games. Going back to Creans' era we always did very well in November tournaments----but underachieved in the last couple months (from Feb 15th though March).

[Benny B]

By definition, to say this team has peaked is tantamount to saying that it won't get any better and by extension, the players have nowhere to go but down.

With the amount of inexperienced talent on this team, such a statement comes across more pessimistic than cautious. It's ok to express hope or caution, but to come out and basically say that these kids have no potential from here is just plain ignorant. Of course, I don't think this is what Tower meant to say, but it bears repeating - although be it at the risk of sounding cliche - it's waaaaaay too early to effectively judge where this team is at and where they're going.

[tower912]

Pretty sure I said that for us to get better, we need more out of Fulce, EWill and JMay.   I think Lazar, Cubi and Acker are playing at their peak.   Butler, Buycks and DJO still can get better but they are also playing at a high level.   We have played near perfect basketball the last two games.   A thrill to watch.    To expect each player to play each game at their peak is unrealistic.    Ergo, to maintain this level, which is very, very good, we need improvement from JMay, Fulce, and EWill.   This isn't negative at all.   

[Benny B]

My apologies... I wasn't being critical. My response was meant to be critical. I completely agree that add'l contribution is necessary for the team to get better. That being said, it gives reason for hope because I fully expect Joe, JMay, EWill or someone else to step up their game as the season goes on and I don't suspect any of the current contributers to drop off one bit. Therefore, barring injuries, the team will improve and I wholeheartedly disagree with the "peaked" assessment.  However, the team can still improve, but if the competition improves more, then the results won't be any better, so from that perspective, I fully understand the peak sentiment.

[Marquette84]

However, one of my frustrations over the last 3 years, other the Lazar and Jimmy, is that we have not had a player improve as the season progresses.

My initial thought is that you missed McNeal.  Early his freshman year he was a turnover waiting to happen--he was much improved toward the end of the season.  Plus, he clearly stepped up the last six or eight games of his junior season, which appeared to give him confidence going into his senior year.  Of all the players over the past several years, I think he showed the most in-season improvement.

But as I think about it, an expectation of improvment flies in the face of a lot of other trends.

First, It is is awfully hard to tell if players are improving or not when the competition gets a lot tougher.  Is a player who looks like an all-American against Maryland Eastern Shore really deteriorating if he doesn't "improve" in conference play? 

Next, not only is the competition stronger, it is going to be better prepared with each and every game.  Early on there isn't a lot of tape available for other team to scout.

Then, you have to consider the impact of injuries. An early- or mid-season injury means a player is not going to show improvement during the year--he'll be lucky to get back to his beginning of the season form.  Each of the Amigos was injured during some point of the season during their careers.  Matthews missed a number of games his freshman year.  McNeal was out at the end of his soph year.  James was out at the end of this senior year.  Would those guys have shown improvement?  Who knows--but being injured, we know they wouldn't. 

Also hidden among the effects of an injury is how defenses react to it. I think there is a valid case that Butlers numbers went up late in the season because with James out, teams focused more on containing Matthews and McNeal.  They ignored Butler, which gave him an opening.  I think that's clearly what happened when Jimmy scored 19 vs. Villanova in the BET--his defender was late getting back on coverage, putting him on the line nearly every time.

Then, there is the issue of focus on preparing for an opponent as opposed to self-improvement.  During the season, at least some of the team's limited practice hours is spent preparing a game plan for a specific opponent rather than improving one's own level of play.   Off-season, 100% of the time can be on improvement.  When you have two game days a week, plus a travel day, how much time are you going to have to get better?

Finally, there is the matter of wear and tear on the body over the course of the season.  From January through the first week in March (about 10 weeks) you're playing two games a week on average, disrupting schedules to travel to half of them.  Again--is the expectation that you're going to improve significantly?  Or is the expectation that you can simply maintain an even keel with a number of issues that suggest that deterioration over the season should be expected.

Its an interesting topic.

I think its probably more realistic to expect that the TEAM will get better rather than any individual player. 

[MarquetteDano]

My initial thought is that you missed McNeal.  Early his freshman year he was a turnover waiting to happen--he was much improved toward the end of the season.  Plus, he clearly stepped up the last six or eight games of his junior season, which appeared to give him confidence going into his senior year.  Of all the players over the past several years, I think he showed the most in-season improvement.

I would agree on McNeal.  However, I mentioned the last three seasons so his freshmen year didn't count in my timeframe (only the Junior year improvement).  Injury has played some role but not all for players. I think the main reason we didn't get a lot of in season improvement was because of the recuiting classes and transfers.    Some guys might have improved but they probably knew they were gone or didn't have the talent to improve in any noticeable way (again, in season).

The bottom line is that succesful teams are better in March than they are in December.  It seemed lately that we did peak and didn't improve too much over the past several seasons.  While other teams got better.  With good recruiting freshman classes this year and next hopefully individuals will improve as the season progresses.