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Author Topic: What is Going on?  (Read 18873 times)

willie warrior

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What is Going on?
« on: September 22, 2009, 10:37:22 AM »
Too much bad news in the last week or so to remain positive:
  • Bowen de-commits
    Clark becomes a big time rapist
    Cadougan out for the year
    DJO out for a while
    Cameron Clark announces for OU
    DeRosiers eliminates us?
    Acker will likely be a starter---OMG
    We are picked about 12-13 in BEast
    Is there anything to be positive about?

Boone

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Re: What is Going on?
« Reply #1 on: September 22, 2009, 10:40:35 AM »
You missed a few. We're out w/Moore and Young and Walker is reportedly a Pitt lean. What are we down to Plans C and D for recruits? Not good.

sellit07

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Re: What is Going on?
« Reply #2 on: September 22, 2009, 10:43:17 AM »
How about 24 days until MU Madness or that we are still on Vander Blue. However, it has been a rough summer to say the least. There is no confirmed statement that Carson Desrosiers is out on us yet.

wyoMUfan

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Re: What is Going on?
« Reply #3 on: September 22, 2009, 10:49:43 AM »
It's a bummer 3 weeks ago I was sooooo pumped.
MU gonna have a good year, recruit great for next year, now I don't know what to think!

UGH!

nyg

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Re: What is Going on?
« Reply #4 on: September 22, 2009, 10:52:07 AM »
You missed a few. We're out w/Moore and Young and Walker is reportedly a Pitt lean. What are we down to Plans C and D for recruits? Not good.

If Plan C and D happens with three scholarships, something is really wrong.  Please don't even think JUCO time again.  Plenty of time left in the recruiting season though. 

Canned Goods n Ammo

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Re: What is Going on?
« Reply #5 on: September 22, 2009, 10:54:31 AM »
The silver lining is that most of the recruits Buzz has landed seemed to have "come from out of nowhere".

We'll see if that happens again. Maybe he is in good with a recruit we don't even know about.

Blackhat

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Re: What is Going on?
« Reply #6 on: September 22, 2009, 11:47:48 AM »
Jamail Jones is a helluva player at least according to the Xavier board and most of the other info I could get on him.   I really think he' s being undersold because he's not local.   That's my positive, we've got a great G/F in the bag and looking for more. 

GGGG

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Re: What is Going on?
« Reply #7 on: September 22, 2009, 12:00:52 PM »
Jamail Jones is a helluva player at least according to the Xavier board and most of the other info I could get on him.   I really think he' s being undersold because he's not local.   That's my positive, we've got a great G/F in the bag and looking for more. 


I think we get too hung up over a "top 40 guy" v. a "top 80 guy" anyway.  So much of what they accomplish here will be due to coaching, effort and injuries anyway.

Marquette84

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Re: What is Going on?
« Reply #8 on: September 22, 2009, 12:26:28 PM »
The silver lining is that most of the recruits Buzz has landed seemed to have "come from out of nowhere".

We'll see if that happens again. Maybe he is in good with a recruit we don't even know about.




The problem with "come out of nowhere" recruits is that the league doesn't respect them, which leads to pre-season predictions of 12th or 13th place, which lead to no TV appearances, which lead to big-time recruits looking elsewhere.  

Then, to make matters worse, let's say these guys really are a 12th or 13th place team this year.  What happens next year?  

We'll be a 13th place team that will lose its best player in Hayward and only experienced PG in Acker.   Our new PG will be a redshirt freshman coming off a serious injury.  We won't be reloading with instant-impact guys, but rather "come out of nowhere" unknowns. 13th place this year means we'll be a pre-season 14th to 16th place pick in 2010-11.  

Frankly, we needed a blockbuster recruit to come in next fall to give MU some ammunition when lobbying for our share of marquee TV matchups in the 2010-11 season.

Of course, it might help if we had someone lobbying for that exposure.  For some reason, when our previous coach worked to get MU on TV it was regarded as a character flaw under the specious argument that he ALSO got TV coverage.  

Well, now we're paying the price of Buzz's "brutal honesty."  Making public statements that your team deserves to be picked 16th at the very time the league is determining the TV schedule gives the league a perfect excuse to give MU the barest minimum of coverage.  

I can just imagine the league discussions with ESPN.  "How about Marquette/Notre Dame Big Monday game?"  "Nah--not even Buzz Williams thinks they're better than last place.  Give 'em their minimum 3 games."
 
Frankly, my fear isn't for this year--we're already stuck without marquee TV coverage this season.  My biggest fear is that next season we'll STILL be stuck with the same low pre-season expectations--driving the same lack of TV exposure--driving the same lack of success with top-level recruits.  



Chili

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Re: What is Going on?
« Reply #9 on: September 22, 2009, 12:30:08 PM »
Recruiting is what wins in college basketball. This is supposed to Buzz's MO. He needs to close something here or he will end up like Crean with one great class followed up by duds.
But I like to throw handfuls...

MU_Iceman

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Re: What is Going on?
« Reply #10 on: September 22, 2009, 12:38:53 PM »
Everyone needs to put down the kool-aid here...

Did you really expect Buzz to follow up a Top-Rated '09 recruiting class with four ESPN Top 100's in '10!?!?

Don't get me wrong, I was very hopeful.  But we're not UNC or KU, we don't reload with All-Americans every year.

The real positive that everyone seems to be missing is that Buzz and his staff got us IN on so many top talents.  I really don't recall a year where MU had so many highly regarded players listing us in their FINAL 3...that's a big deal!

Part of the reason Buzz was able to attract the talent he did this year was BECAUSE there was a great deal of playing time available.  The fact that he got top talents to consider us again this year is a small feat in and of itself. 

The national signing day is still over a month out...so let's all keep our fingers crossed and see how everything pans out...

Canned Goods n Ammo

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Re: What is Going on?
« Reply #11 on: September 22, 2009, 12:41:25 PM »


The problem with "come out of nowhere" recruits is that the league doesn't respect them, which leads to pre-season predictions of 12th or 13th place, which lead to no TV appearances, which lead to big-time recruits looking elsewhere.  

Then, to make matters worse, let's say these guys really are a 12th or 13th place team this year.  What happens next year?  

We'll be a 13th place team that will lose its best player in Hayward and only experienced PG in Acker.   Our new PG will be a redshirt freshman coming off a serious injury.  We won't be reloading with instant-impact guys, but rather "come out of nowhere" unknowns. 13th place this year means we'll be a pre-season 14th to 16th place pick in 2010-11.  

Frankly, we needed a blockbuster recruit to come in next fall to give MU some ammunition when lobbying for our share of marquee TV matchups in the 2010-11 season.

Of course, it might help if we had someone lobbying for that exposure.  For some reason, when our previous coach worked to get MU on TV it was regarded as a character flaw under the specious argument that he ALSO got TV coverage.  

Well, now we're paying the price of Buzz's "brutal honesty."  Making public statements that your team deserves to be picked 16th at the very time the league is determining the TV schedule gives the league a perfect excuse to give MU the barest minimum of coverage.  

I can just imagine the league discussions with ESPN.  "How about Marquette/Notre Dame Big Monday game?"  "Nah--not even Buzz Williams thinks they're better than last place.  Give 'em their minimum 3 games."
 
Frankly, my fear isn't for this year--we're already stuck without marquee TV coverage this season.  My biggest fear is that next season we'll STILL be stuck with the same low pre-season expectations--driving the same lack of TV exposure--driving the same lack of success with top-level recruits.  




I don't necessarily disagree, but if Buzz brings in talented players and wins, I don't care what the recruits were ranked.

Obviously we'd all love to have a top recruiting class... but I don't want to freak out if some high school scout ranked a guy at #80 rather than #50.

Chili, I thought playing great basketball won games. And yes, I realize you need to have talented players to do that... but let's not start chalking losses in 2012 in the fall of 09.

Ready2Fly

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Re: What is Going on?
« Reply #12 on: September 22, 2009, 12:46:19 PM »
You can effectively move Cadougan to the 2010 class now.  I'm assuming he will be medically red shirted, so his eligibility begins along with Jamail Jones.

That leaves a class of Maymon, Williams, DJO and Buycks

followed by Cadougan, Jones, and ...

One more top 100 for the 2010 class, and that will give MU a year with seven top 100 level players, followed by a year with six.  The sky is not falling.

Chili

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Re: What is Going on?
« Reply #13 on: September 22, 2009, 12:48:10 PM »
I don't necessarily disagree, but if Buzz brings in talented players and wins, I don't care what the recruits were ranked.

Obviously we'd all love to have a top recruiting class... but I don't want to freak out if some high school scout ranked a guy at #80 rather than #50.

Chili, I thought playing great basketball won games. And yes, I realize you need to have talented players to do that... but let's not start chalking losses in 2012 in the fall of 09.

Well so far the one man class isn't going to win a ton of games. This was an issue the Bronze One had, Buzz needs to improve on it. This was also a time to start building on HS or Prep players instead of going into the JC well all the time so you can have kids on campus longer.
But I like to throw handfuls...

MR.HAYWARD

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Re: What is Going on?
« Reply #14 on: September 22, 2009, 12:51:42 PM »


The problem with "come out of nowhere" recruits is that the league doesn't respect them, which leads to pre-season predictions of 12th or 13th place, which lead to no TV appearances, which lead to big-time recruits looking elsewhere.  

Then, to make matters worse, let's say these guys really are a 12th or 13th place team this year.  What happens next year?  

We'll be a 13th place team that will lose its best player in Hayward and only experienced PG in Acker.   Our new PG will be a redshirt freshman coming off a serious injury.  We won't be reloading with instant-impact guys, but rather "come out of nowhere" unknowns. 13th place this year means we'll be a pre-season 14th to 16th place pick in 2010-11.  

Frankly, we needed a blockbuster recruit to come in next fall to give MU some ammunition when lobbying for our share of marquee TV matchups in the 2010-11 season.

Of course, it might help if we had someone lobbying for that exposure.  For some reason, when our previous coach worked to get MU on TV it was regarded as a character flaw under the specious argument that he ALSO got TV coverage.  

Well, now we're paying the price of Buzz's "brutal honesty."  Making public statements that your team deserves to be picked 16th at the very time the league is determining the TV schedule gives the league a perfect excuse to give MU the barest minimum of coverage.  

I can just imagine the league discussions with ESPN.  "How about Marquette/Notre Dame Big Monday game?"  "Nah--not even Buzz Williams thinks they're better than last place.  Give 'em their minimum 3 games."
 
Frankly, my fear isn't for this year--we're already stuck without marquee TV coverage this season.  My biggest fear is that next season we'll STILL be stuck with the same low pre-season expectations--driving the same lack of TV exposure--driving the same lack of success with top-level recruits.  





Maquette84 you truly are a fool....

With our great coach doing all his wonderous marketing how many nationally televised and Big Monday games did we have 5 years ago when we were picked to finish 12th in the conference....answer about the same...you ding bat.  We did get the game with Uconn, it did not hurt for that to be our first BE game and Ucon rated #1 in the country before the season.     Wow

conversely maybe Buzz was a great marketer last year and that is why we got somany antional games?  or d you think there was a direct correlation to our prejcted finish and it really had little to nothing to do with the coach?!

Also if you think MU will be picked for 13th next year you are really dumb....our newcomers will impress and the additon of two top 75 recruits in Jones and Junior will create some hype.  Meanwhile your lover in Bloominton has a 2 star recruit signed up and a 3 star recruit that scored 7 points agame last year as a junior.  and par for the course he not only whiffed on his only big time recruit he was dumped about as hard as one can be in this business.  Told after his in home that Iu was not longer being considered.  Only a jack ass like your boyfriend could do that.

Canned Goods n Ammo

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Re: What is Going on?
« Reply #15 on: September 22, 2009, 12:53:41 PM »
Well so far the one man class isn't going to win a ton of games. This was an issue the Bronze One had, Buzz needs to improve on it. This was also a time to start building on HS or Prep players instead of going into the JC well all the time so you can have kids on campus longer.

I agree with all of that.

I'm just not ready to sound any alarms. The recruiting world is a turbulent place. A lot can happen, and a lot is happening that we don't even know about.

Sept. is not the only time to find quality players.

Canned Goods n Ammo

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Re: What is Going on?
« Reply #16 on: September 22, 2009, 12:56:15 PM »

Maquette84 you truly are a fool....

With our great coach doing all his wonderous marketing how many nationally televised and Big Monday games did we have 5 years ago when we were picked to finish 12th in the conference....answer about the same...you ding bat.  We did get the game with Uconn, it did not hurt for that to be our first BE game and Ucon rated #1 in the country before the season.     Wow

conversely maybe Buzz was a great marketer last year and that is why we got somany antional games?  or d you think there was a direct correlation to our prejcted finish and it really had little to nothing to do with the coach?!

Also if you think MU will be picked for 13th next year you are really dumb....our newcomers will impress and the additon of two top 75 recruits in Jones and Junior will create some hype.  Meanwhile your lover in Bloominton has a 2 star recruit signed up and a 3 star recruit that scored 7 points agame last year as a junior.  and par for the course he not only whiffed on his only big time recruit he was dumped about as hard as one can be in this business.  Told after his in home that Iu was not longer being considered.  Only a jack ass like your boyfriend could do that.

Straw Man.

Stay on topic young man.

GGGG

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Re: What is Going on?
« Reply #17 on: September 22, 2009, 12:57:30 PM »
You can effectively move Cadougan to the 2010 class now.  I'm assuming he will be medically red shirted, so his eligibility begins along with Jamail Jones.

That leaves a class of Maymon, Williams, DJO and Buycks

followed by Cadougan, Jones, and ...

One more top 100 for the 2010 class, and that will give MU a year with seven top 100 level players, followed by a year with six.  The sky is not falling.


Buycks and DJO are not "top 100" recruits.  They certainly weren't coming out of high school.

MUfan2

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Re: What is Going on?
« Reply #18 on: September 22, 2009, 01:16:57 PM »
Too much bad news in the last week or so to remain positive:
  • Bowen de-commits
    Clark becomes a big time rapist
    Cadougan out for the year
    DJO out for a while
    Cameron Clark announces for OU
    DeRosiers eliminates us?
    Acker will likely be a starter---OMG
    We are picked about 12-13 in BEast
    Is there anything to be positive about?

Where is this Acker will start nonsense coming from?  I keep hearing this all over.  Unless Buzz thinks he needs to move Buckys to the 2, there is no way in hell Acker is going to start over him.  And correct me if I'm wrong, but do you really think Buzz is going to start someone who wasn't even on the team a month ago?  Highly doubtful.
"If you are making your decision based on climate, you're probably not tough enough to play here." - Buzz Williams

GOO

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Re: What is Going on?
« Reply #19 on: September 22, 2009, 01:20:21 PM »
We have a top 100 commit already.  That is the great news.  The staff seemed to make him a very high priority from what I've read.  In the not too distant past, one top 100 guy would have been a good get.  Now, it is a good start.  We have made progress as a program.

 I hope we can get another top 100 this fall and maybe a top 50.  This would be a really nice class coming off an already solid class.  We've had trouble following up "anchor" classes  in the past, and Buzz seems to have us heading in the right direction with the one top 100, and I think we get another top 100 and maybe a top 50 guy.

 Yes, we all would have liked 4 top 50 guys.  That isn't going to happen this year, but we can still have a nice class and have things looking way up for next year.  Buckys and DJO probably would have been rated higher if they were qualified and being seriously recruited by top schools out of high school.  I think they are top 100 quality coming in and may have been if fully qualified directly from high school.

I have no insider info, but my guess is Blue is UW bound.  Hope I'm wrong, but I just have a feeling as the UW crowd seems to think the UW staff feels good about Blue.  Certain UW posters seems to have their smug posting ways when discussing Blue, which means they feel confident.  If they start posting how, player Y, is actually better than Blue or as good, then I will feel better about Blue and MU (unless he is Florida bound).  

Pinkston would be a really nice get.  Add a quality point guard or combo to start or play with or back up Junior and the class would be really solid to good.  Maybe keep a scholi for spring or a transfer.
« Last Edit: September 22, 2009, 01:23:06 PM by GOO »

lurch91

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Re: What is Going on?
« Reply #20 on: September 22, 2009, 01:29:20 PM »
Well so far the one man class isn't going to win a ton of games. This was an issue the Bronze One had, Buzz needs to improve on it. This was also a time to start building on HS or Prep players instead of going into the JC well all the time so you can have kids on campus longer.
Sweet Jebus!!!

How many times do we have to say it, Juco's were part of the plan to help distribute the classes.  Without class balance he'd be handcuffed for YEARS by needing to recruit 7 one year, then 1 or 2 the other 3.

Chili

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Re: What is Going on?
« Reply #21 on: September 22, 2009, 01:43:20 PM »
Sweet Jebus!!!

How many times do we have to say it, Juco's were part of the plan to help distribute the classes.  Without class balance he'd be handcuffed for YEARS by needing to recruit 7 one year, then 1 or 2 the other 3.

Sweet Jebus you need read what I said before flying off the handle.

I did not say a thing about JC’s that are currently part of the team that were used to redistribute the classes. The hope is here that the class of 2010 would be one where everything could settle down and we could stop the JC pipeline and get back to HS and Prep players who are around for 4 years.

You need read what people actually write and realize they were not attacking past actions but rather hoping future ones might be different. Every time someone mentions JC players they are not crushing them.
But I like to throw handfuls...

lurch91

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Re: What is Going on?
« Reply #22 on: September 22, 2009, 02:09:15 PM »
It would NOT surprise me that one of the 2010 recruit is a JUCO, as Clark was part of the redistribution process.

NCMUFan

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Re: What is Going on?
« Reply #23 on: September 22, 2009, 02:19:37 PM »
Adversity- so what.  We haven't even played a single game and some are crying the blues.  Keep the faith and enjoy the season. Stop the whining.  As much as I didn’t want Junior to be injured, it will give Erik Williams (a stud in the making) more minutes.

Marquette84

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Re: What is Going on?
« Reply #24 on: September 22, 2009, 02:34:26 PM »

Also if you think MU will be picked for 13th next year you are really dumb....our newcomers will impress and the additon of two top 75 recruits in Jones and Junior will create some hype.  

How impressive will our newcomers be if they don't manage to finish better than 12th or 13th THIS year, when paired with Lazar Hayward?  

Rutger's newcomers were impressive last year--yet the team finished near the basement.  Anyone picking them to move up this year?  I don't think so.  And they didn't lose anyone on par with Hayward.  

And we've already been down the road that newcomers can't be counted on to generate hype.  Junior's hype THIS year--when 100% healthy and paired with Hayward--has led to projections of 12th or 13th place.  

Yet you think NEXT year--when Junior hasn't played competitively for a year and coming off a VERY serious injury -- AND we lose one of MU's top five all time scorers in Hayward -- well at that point expectations will be much higher, even though the core of the returning team will be coming off a 12th or 13th place finish?

Here's what I think:  when you only return 3 starters (and lose your best player) from a 12th or 13th place team, and don't have any instant impact recruits, then very very few people will think that you are improving.  

Lets face it, Jones might be a nice player--eventually--but he's certainly not going to be any more highly regarded than this year's recruits.

The only way we'd move up in the pre-season expectations next year is if we land a player like Derosiers, Blue or Cameron Clark.