Buzz Spoke In Chicago Today (September 17)

[Pakuni]

MU hit 72.8 percent of its free throws last year.
Better than 2007-08 (70.6), 2006-07 (66.9) and 2004-5 (71.0). It was just a tad behind 2005-6 (73.2), a year when Novak nailed 98 percent from the line.

Nationally, MU's 72.8 ranked them 55th out of 330 programs. Guess who also shot 72.8 percent?
Duke, which apparently does shoot free throws as part of formal practice time.

It seems to me the lack of formal free throw practice isn't making much of a difference.

[Daniel]

MU hit 72.8 percent of its free throws last year.
Better than 2007-08 (70.6), 2006-07 (66.9) and 2004-5 (71.0). It was just a tad behind 2005-6 (73.2), a year when Novak nailed 98 percent from the line.

Nationally, MU's 72.8 ranked them 55th out of 330 programs. Guess who also shot 72.8 percent?
Duke, which apparently does shoot free throws as part of formal practice time.

It seems to me the lack of formal free throw practice isn't making much of a difference.

There are a zillion ways to look at it.  E.G., If we achieved 72. 8% w/o the practice and Duke did[ with the practice, one might argue, imagine if we practiced!  For me, I think Buzz is right to demand that they practice on their own.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Did these programs have a higher FT% than the rest of the country?

Duke shot 72.8%, but I do know they are 3 of the coaches that go on the Mount Rushmore of coaching and they believe free throw shooting is important enough to be part of their practice routine.

I totally get where Buzz is coming from.  At the same time, sometimes when you send messages to players like "do it on your own", then maybe players view it as not as important.  Pakuni brings up a good point about free throw percentage of MU last year vs years prior, of course we don't know if Crean practiced free throws either....according to Buzz, he didn't (said he never worked for a coach that had free throws practiced).  If that's the case, the control group that Pakuni is using is not proper.

The other way to look at it is what would we have shot if we did practice?  Would it be better?  One would think so.  I mean, why practice putting by professional golfers, they all know how to putt.  Why practice chipping.  Or from a basketball perspective, why practice dunks or layups....at this level, aren't those converted at 99%? 

So we'll never know.  We won't know if Duke didn't practice free throws if they would be worse than 72.8%.  We don't know if MU practiced free throws if they would be better than 72.8%.  So Pakuni's numbers comparing against each other is a stretch because there is no control group to compare to.


I just use common sense on this one.  Free throw points account for about 24.4% of your total offensive output per game at MU.  Nearly 1 in every 4 points is attributable to a free throw. In the last 3 minutes of a game, the percentage goes up to 62% of your points scored are at the free throw line. When that many points are tied to one function, seems like practicing them and making them an emphasis would be smart.  Coach K, Wooden and Knight thought so. 

Don't get me wrong, MOST coaches do not emphasize free throws at the college level so Buzz is no different.  I'm just old school and like how Wooden, Knight and K do it.


Here's an article you might enjoy Pakuni   

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/04/sports/basketball/04freethrow.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1

It argues that nothing has changed in 50 years in free throws.  Of course, it also talks about how most coaches don't spend a lick of time practicing it which is probably why it hasn't improved.

[Tugg Speedman]

Good article Chicos

By my reading this article supports Buzz view that practicing FT's is a waste of time.

The article says their has been no improvement in FT% in the last 50 years.  It stays pretty much the same league wide every year.  Most coaches do not practice it.  Statisticians cannot find evidence that those coaches that do practice it consistently do better than those that do not.  So, why bother?

[ChicosBailBonds]

Good article Chicos

By my reading this article supports Buzz view that practicing FT's is a waste of time.

The article says their has been no improvement in FT% in the last 50 years.  It stays pretty much the same league wide every year.  Most coaches do not practice it.  Statisticians cannot find evidence that those coaches that do practice it consistently do better than those that do not.  So, why bother?

I think the article supports both positions to some extent.  The coach from Southern Utah forces his guys to practice and feels it pays off.  In this day and age when players are all about dunks and high flyers, seems much of the fundamentals (like shooting a free throw) are not as important to them.  I'm old school I guess....teach the fundamentals.

[77ncaachamps]

I know in my heart of hearts it's mechanics, mechanics, mechanics.

But has anyone played 40 minutes of basketball and tried to hit a free throw? No matter how good the mechanics, it's still tough.

But the mechanics is what the player can lean on during those tough times...and it (as well as) practice builds the confidence to hit that FT.

I'd like to equate shooting free throws with practicing handwriting in school in the sense that you only have so much time of the day with the student and spending 10 minutes with each child to practice something some of them probably didn't practice before is kind of a waste of time.

[Daniel]

In general, as with most things in life, experience and practice makes a big diffference.  But I think Buzz is right to demand they practice FTs on their own.

[Tugg Speedman]

In 2007 Gilbert Arenas' made a $20,000 bet with teammate DeShawn Stevenson:

Arenas said that he could make a higher percentage of one handed college three pointers than Stevenson could make of NBA three pointers shot with both hands. Arenas shot 73/100, while Stevenson made 68/96 shots (he quit when he could not catch Arenas).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bn6O42a5vl8

In 2007 Stevenson was 27th in the NBA in 3-Point % at 38.3%.
Gilbert Arenas was not even in the top 50 with a 28.2% rate.

Care to guess how many the 26 ahead of Stevenson hit in practice?

Remind me again why practicing these things helps?

For the idea of "mechanics, mechanics, mechanics,"  these are not 10 year kids.  These are elite athletes.  They know how to make free throws and could all probably hit 50 in a row in practice (Shaq often did).  Game situations are nothing like practice.  Ask Shaq.

Buzz is correct to drill offensive and defensive sets in practice.  If he has a top 100 kid that needs special practice with a coach on the mechanics of FT shooting, I have news for you, that is not a top 100 kid!

[Jay Bee]

Remind me again why practicing these things helps?

For the idea of "mechanics, mechanics, mechanics,"  these are not 10 year kids.  These are elite athletes.  They know how to make free throws and could all probably hit 50 in a row in practice (Shaq often did).  

  Sounds cute, but this is an absolute lie.  Shaq did not often make 50 free throws in a row... in fact, not many have.  You're lying and out of your mind.

[Tugg Speedman]

"He says O'Neal shoots 300 to 500 free throws a day in practice and makes 84-87% of them. He says Shaq can even make 50% of them blindfolded."

http://www.freethrowmaster.com/news

I remember Phil Jackson saying the 50 in a row number years ago.  Looking at these numbers, it should not be that surprising.

---

and reagarding the idea that "not many have", try this quote ...

http://www.slate.com/id/105348/

Shaq makes free throws in practice. Why can't he make them in games? Everyone shoots a higher percentage in practice: Karl Malone, a career 76-percent free-throw shooter, doesn't end his warm-up until he sinks 30 in a row. Yet in 16 seasons Malone has never sunk 30 straight in league competition.


Let me underscore that Malone makes 30 straight EVERYDAY!  Not just once in his life.
---

Fact of the matter is most players in the NBA can make 50 straight in practice.  See the video above, Arenas hit 73 of 100 threes with ONE HAND and is not even in the top 50 in Three %.

This is why the mechanics and practice comments make no sense.  These are not 10 year olds so stop offering the solutions for a 10 year old to elite athletes.

[Jay Bee]

Fact of the matter is most players in the NBA can make 50 straight in practice.

  No, that is not fact.  You are lying and delusional.  The fact of the matter is that you are wrong.

[Tugg Speedman]

  No, that is not fact.  You are lying and delusional.  The fact of the matter is that you are wrong.

I guess you don't understand the skill level of NBA players.

[Murffieus]

Lets not forget that DJ regressed significantly last year in FTs.

For a pure shooter practicing FTs may not improve things much-----but for a marginal shooter-----he needs the reps at the FT line. Those reps however shouldn't be of the see how many one can make out of 25 in a row variety (Shaq)-----but should be assimilated to game conditions with
the lane filled with players and taking no more than two at a time.

Not practicing FTs is like a FG kicker not practicing FGs-----or a punter not practicing punting short of the end zone-----or a batter not practicing bunting----or a QB not practicing throwing while rolling out. Any skill need to be worked on in most cases.

[Marquette84]

Not practicing FTs is like a FG kicker not practicing FGs-----or a punter not practicing punting short of the end zone-----

Really?  Does basketball have a FT shooting specialist similar to a kicker or punter, where all he does is shoot free throws on behalf of the rest of the team?

Here's a better example:  Not practicing FTs is like a band or symphony member coming to rehearsal unprepared.  They're expected to practice the material on their own--and when they come to rehearsal they should know the material and practiced it on their own.

They don't work on basics like scales or fingering DURING the group rehearsal--they work that out BEFORE rehearsal.  When you have everyone together, you reserve that time for practice which requires the full ensemble.

Similarly, team practice in basketball should be reserved for team activities--not individual ones. FT practice is homework.

[Tugg Speedman]

Excellent analogy 84.  It's not that players should not practice FTs.  I'm sure they do, ON THEIR OWN TIME.

Cottingham told me (Thursday in Chicago) that they are currently limited to 20 hours of organized practices a week.  If they need to set aside part of those 20 hours to practice, FTs, 3-pointers, bounce passes, chest passes, dunks, hook shots and jumpers, they will have to time for anything else.  Then we might as well be a D3 team.

[Murffieus]

Really?  Does basketball have a FT shooting specialist similar to a kicker or punter, where all he does is shoot free throws on behalf of the rest of the team?

Here's a better example:  Not practicing FTs is like a band or symphony member coming to rehearsal unprepared.  They're expected to practice the material on their own--and when they come to rehearsal they should know the material and practiced it on their own.

They don't work on basics like scales or fingering DURING the group rehearsal--they work that out BEFORE rehearsal.  When you have everyone together, you reserve that time for practice which requires the full ensemble.

Similarly, team practice in basketball should be reserved for team activities--not individual ones. FT practice is homework.

You raise a good point-----i think every BB team should have a shooting coach (include FTs) barring the HC's expertise in that area!

[Murffieus]

Excellent analogy 84.  It's not that players should not practice FTs.  I'm sure they do, ON THEIR OWN TIME.

Cottingham told me (Thursday in Chicago) that they are currently limited to 20 hours of organized practices a week.  If they need to set aside part of those 20 hours to practice, FTs, 3-pointers, bounce passes, chest passes, dunks, hook shots and jumpers, they will have to time for anything else.  Then we might as well be a D3 team.

Three hours per day of practice is more than sufficient to teach all facits of the game (including shooting and other fundamentals)------in fact after Feb 1st practices shouldn't have to be more than 1.5-2 hrs/day

[DaCoach]

The reason that most college coaches don't allot any practice time to FTs is simply because of limited times available for all activities. However, ever coach worth his weight expects his players to use their own free time to stay proficient. The ones that do use team time for FT shooting usually do it at the end of practice when the players are more tired.

And while the positive mental image is very important in all shooting, FG and FT, the essentials of a good shooter begin with good form. Whether it's shooting a BB, pitching a baseball, hitting a golf ball, throwing or kicking a football, the best athletes have a consistent form.

We all saw DJ struggle at the line last year. What we also saw was an inconsistent stroke. I would contend that if Dom's form had been consistently developed, he would have improved his 46% rate. I'd suggest his head wasn't positively focused simply because he didn't have that stroke he could fall back on at the line. No one can expect good numbers at the line when he's falling back on his release and that was too often the case last year.

As an aside, I'd be willing to throw down some serious money against the proposition that most NBA players can drown 50 in a row in practice.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

The reason that most college coaches don't allot any practice time to FTs is simply because of limited times available for all activities. However, ever coach worth his weight expects his players to use their own free time to stay proficient. The ones that do use team time for FT shooting usually do it at the end of practice when the players are more tired.

Bingo.

Try this scenario:

Practicing 3 ft putts with make you a better golfer.

However, do you really want to pay to have a pro to watch you try and sink 100 3 footers? Isn't that a waste of money?

Couldn't you work on something that the pro could actually help you with (bunker shots, wedge game, long irons, etc)?

Surely you could get a lesson, and then finish up with your short putting practice afterward. The pro could help you work on your stroke for a few minutes, but then leave you to practice on your own.

Short putts are important, but there isn't a lot of value to paying a pro to stand there and watch you hit them. They are something that can be practiced alone, thus allowing you to allocate more money towards other lessons that would help you more.

Now, take this exact same scenario, but replace "money" with "time" (both limited resources), and "putts" with "free throws" (something that really good players hit 85-90% of).

Free throws are important, but the coaching staff has limited time with the players.

[jaygall31]

back to Buzz and the first day LOI's can be signed....if he thinks it's "a PLACE we've never been before"  what does this mean? or what do we think it means?

[4everwarriors]

I've never been to Paris.

[ChicosBailBonds]

In 2007 Gilbert Arenas' made a $20,000 bet with teammate DeShawn Stevenson:

Arenas said that he could make a higher percentage of one handed college three pointers than Stevenson could make of NBA three pointers shot with both hands. Arenas shot 73/100, while Stevenson made 68/96 shots (he quit when he could not catch Arenas).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bn6O42a5vl8

In 2007 Stevenson was 27th in the NBA in 3-Point % at 38.3%.
Gilbert Arenas was not even in the top 50 with a 28.2% rate.

Care to guess how many the 26 ahead of Stevenson hit in practice?

Remind me again why practicing these things helps?

For the idea of "mechanics, mechanics, mechanics,"  these are not 10 year kids.  These are elite athletes.  They know how to make free throws and could all probably hit 50 in a row in practice (Shaq often did).  Game situations are nothing like practice.  Ask Shaq.

Buzz is correct to drill offensive and defensive sets in practice.  If he has a top 100 kid that needs special practice with a coach on the mechanics of FT shooting, I have news for you, that is not a top 100 kid!

Completely different.  Shooting 3 pointers in practice vs game are totally different.  In the game, you have someone coming at you, trying to alter the shot, you're having to bust your ass to get open, coming off multiple screens, etc, etc.  You can't compare the two....especially when you're shooting 3's just a jump shot (or set shot) vs a real game, totally different.

That's not the case for a free throw.  No one is flying at you, no one is trying to block a shot, it's still 15 feet from the basket.  Yes, there is the issue of how tired you are in the game vs practice, but that's also why some coaches force players to take free throws in practice when they are dead tired, to simulate.

I don't see how comparing a 3 point shot in practice with no one trying to guard you comes close to replicating 3 point shooting in a game.  They are two, totally different things.  But free throws in practice vs game are much more similar because it's just you and the rim, nothing else.

[lurch91]

Ok, just read this thread and my question is, Buzz mentioned he cut practice short on Sept 17th because the guys were horrible.  I thought they couldn't practice until Oct 16th?????

What kind of practices are coaches allowed prior to Oct 16th?

[ChicosBailBonds]

Ok, just read this thread and my question is, Buzz mentioned he cut practice short on Sept 17th because the guys were horrible.  I thought they couldn't practice until Oct 16th?????

What kind of practices are coaches allowed prior to Oct 16th?

Buzz has a special NCAA rule book that the other schools don't have

[MUfan12]

Ok, just read this thread and my question is, Buzz mentioned he cut practice short on Sept 17th because the guys were horrible.  I thought they couldn't practice until Oct 16th?????

What kind of practices are coaches allowed prior to Oct 16th?

To seriously answer your question, I believe the NCAA allows 2 hours per week for the coaches to be with the team. When the amigos were freshman, TC took those two hours for the Katrina scrimmage.