Brett Roseboro no longer attending Marquette?

[mu_hilltopper]

I don't mind "running guys off" if they aren't good enough to make an impact.  Pull the band-aid off the scab quick.

But I think we all mind recruiting and offering guys and regretting it ~9 months later.

(Reminds me of an old acronym we used at work .. That's guy is PURE.  Previously Undetected Recruiting Error.)

[GGGG]

Here's the article.....it definitely takes shots at our recruiting process with this kid.  Looks like we didn't do our homework very well and jumped the gun on the offer.  Who was the lead recruiter on Roseboro?

That's what worries me the most about this.  BR will be fine.  He'll get into a D1 school, get a free education, and will play basketball.  The bigger question is how we made such a big whiff after what seemingly was a whirlwind recruitment.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Ha!  Now we just need Murff and Chicos on board.

I can't read what Hayward says so it's going to be tough for me.   

[Nukem2]

Unfortunately, Marquette 84 is on target with his comments. sign of the times.  Just the way it is.  Hopefully Buzz can keep these to a minimum.  But, most schools are now plagued with this issue.  In this case, I suspect Brett is "at fault" as well as he apparently got in over his head.  Certainly Rosiak's blogs on the open gyms and BF's senior HS performance are evidence of that.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Unfortunately, Marquette 84 is on target with his comments. sign of the times.  Just the way it is.  Hopefully Buzz can keep these to a minimum.  But, most schools are now plagued with this issue.  In this case, I suspect Brett is "at fault" as well as he apparently got in over his head.  Certainly Rosiak's blogs on the open gyms and BF's senior HS performance are evidence of that.

I have a tough time blaming much if any of this on the player.  The guy is 17 years old.  When a Big East staff recruits you and offers you a scholarship to play in the Big East and tells you you're ready (or will be ready), what's the kid supposed to do?  Isn't the coaching staff supposed to be the expert evaluators?  The kid is going to hear these accolades and believe that the coaches see in him what they saw in other similar players in the past.  I have to think a 17 year old kid is going to listen to a recruiting expert with the recruiting chops Buzz has had over the years, tough to put much if any of this on the kid IMO.

[IAmMarquette]

Here's the article.....it definitely takes shots at our recruiting process with this kid.  Looks like we didn't do our homework very well and jumped the gun on the offer.  Who was the lead recruiter on Roseboro?

Or maybe it's a case of sour grapes/protecting his player on the coach's part. Do you really think the coach is going to tell a reporter, for example, "Yeah, Brett just wasn't cut out for Big East play."? Of course you don't (at least I certainly hope you don't).

I'd say the chances of that being the case are at least as good as the story the coach told that reporter.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Or maybe it's a case of sour grapes/protecting his player on the coach's part. Do you really think the coach is going to tell a reporter, for example, "Yeah, Brett just wasn't cut out for Big East play."? Of course you don't (at least I certainly hope you don't).

I'd say the chances of that being the case are at least as good as the story the coach told that reporter.

Perhaps, but when you look at who else offered him we're the ones that aren't like the others.  And actually, the article mentions two coaches saying this, not just one.  Yes, I'm sure they're protecting their player but the part about never seeing him play in a game seems odd to me.  If anything, in the paragraph below he seems to indicate that it was the MU coaching staff who thought he was a Big East player but the Quaker coaches weren't necessarily saying the same thing. 


"I don't see how you can recruit a kid and not watch his games," Anderson said.

"It's just mind boggling," Keeler said. "I don't think the guy that scouted him and recruited him did his homework. These guys were really cocky. They thought they had this great Division I player to come right off Quakertown High School and play for them right away. But I've seen Big East ball. I know what it's all about."

[rugbydrummer]

Some of you might say this isn't running someone off, I guess it's a matter of semantics.  In my opinion, I don't have a problem with it, but we need to stop the holier than though idea that Buzz or Crean or Jesus Christ doesn't do this stuff.

It's pretty clear from this article that the staff soured on Roseboro and "made him not wanted".  Happens all the time, but that's basically running off a kid.  At least that's how the kid took it, Buzz will have to tell his side of the story.  Either way, I don't have a problem with it, better to do it now but let's stop pretending that Buzz isn't capable of telling a kid you're better off going elsewhere (that's the same as running them off).

Here's the article.....it definitely takes shots at our recruiting process with this kid.  Looks like we didn't do our homework very well and jumped the gun on the offer.  Who was the lead recruiter on Roseboro?


http://www.phillyburbs.com/news/local/the_intelligencer/the_intelligencer_news_details/article/120/2009/august/23/roseboro-chooses-to-withdraw-from-marquette.html

Whoa, hey, easy now!! correct me if I am wrong, I am pretty sure Jesus takes allcomers!   

[rugbydrummer]

I, for one, would like to officially welcome all the new converts to the "Transfers are a Normal part of Big Time College Basketball" club.

Just a couple of years ago, a transfer like this would have elicited negative reactions ranging from "the coach is an ass for running a player off the team" to "the coach is a poor recruiter for ever thinking this guy could play in the first place." 

I said then and I say now, not every player pans out the way the coaching staff would like, thus every elite team has a significant number transfers--just look at teams like Duke, UConn, Kansas, etc.  We want to stay in the big time, as fans we have to get over our squeamishness over transfers. 

Good luck to Brett, who will hopefully join the ranks of prior transfers from Kevin Menard to Ryan Amoroso who have found success and an opportunity for meaningful contribution at a level more in line with their skills.

Good for Buzz for having the courage to make the tough calls like this--Now go out and find someone who will make our team better.

And congrats to many on the board, who sound like they're finally coming around to agreeing with what I've been saying for years.  

The way I see it, it's just a microcosm of college attrition rates in general.  This is just a very specific student demographic.  I mean, with 7 players coming in 1 class, odds are higher that not all 7 will stay!  I mean, not to pout, but Ous was the only person left from my year's original recruiting class (bye bye Dameon Mason, Amoroso, and?? ) by the time I graduated, so it definitely happens.  Obviously with 7 new faces, that is 6 new people he has to compete w/ for PT as well as whatever PT will go to the returning players.  It is just so much less clear cut versus joining a non rebuilding team (hence the last minute change up?? notice it happened right after our 2 internat'ls were approved....)  I am glad Brett was able to recognize (or was shown) the writing on the wall; no one wants someone here if they are not going to be happy and/or succeed. 

With weather like last week's . . . bring on October!

[77ncaachamps]

Well, two things come to mind:

1) a weird "win-win": Brett gets to keep his eligibility and we still have a scholly. At least, BR was kind in the newspaper and Buzz reciprocated and didn't play out the "holding onto the scholly" thing too long.

2) It may affect recruiting but to many recruits, I have a feeling that they'll look at it as "there's a slot open at a Big East school" rather than "I'm taking the place of a dude whose scholly was reclaimed". And this potential problem is a whole heckuva lot better than "Pitino's Pound Party at a Pasta Place."

[ChicosBailBonds]

Well, two things come to mind:

1) a weird "win-win": Brett gets to keep his eligibility and we still have a scholly. At least, BR was kind in the newspaper and Buzz reciprocated and didn't play out the "holding onto the scholly" thing too long.

2) It may affect recruiting but to many recruits, I have a feeling that they'll look at it as "there's a slot open at a Big East school" rather than "I'm taking the place of a dude whose scholly was reclaimed". And this potential problem is a whole heckuva lot better than "Pitino's Pound Party at a Pasta Place."

+1   That's exactly why it happened.  Buzz gets a scholarship for clearly a bad recruiting mistake.  The kid gets to go play somewhere else, hopefully Buzz is assisting in that process somehow. 

[Knight Commission]

+1   That's exactly why it happened.  Buzz gets a scholarship for clearly a bad recruiting mistake.  The kid gets to go play somewhere else, hopefully Buzz is assisting in that process somehow. 

+1   Buzz and particularly Collins who was the primary scout, better be working hard to find him a great spot.

[GGGG]

Perhaps, but when you look at who else offered him we're the ones that aren't like the others.  And actually, the article mentions two coaches saying this, not just one.  Yes, I'm sure they're protecting their player but the part about never seeing him play in a game seems odd to me.  If anything, in the paragraph below he seems to indicate that it was the MU coaching staff who thought he was a Big East player but the Quaker coaches weren't necessarily saying the same thing. 


"I don't see how you can recruit a kid and not watch his games," Anderson said.

"It's just mind boggling," Keeler said. "I don't think the guy that scouted him and recruited him did his homework. These guys were really cocky. They thought they had this great Division I player to come right off Quakertown High School and play for them right away. But I've seen Big East ball. I know what it's all about."

These quote are misleading.

They did see him play...in AAU ball.  Correct me if I am wrong, but it is pretty tough for a college coaching staff to watch a HS game in Pennsylvania when at the same time that the college team is playing in Wisconsin.  Furthermore by that time his HS season rolled around, he had already committed.  What point was there to seeing him then?

[oshkoshbgosh]

I actually think this worked out for the best. It would've been bad for the team and the kid if Roseboro sat around unhappy and sulking for a year, and then transferred. Wish him the best and move on.

[bma725]

These quote are misleading.

They did see him play...in AAU ball.  Correct me if I am wrong, but it is pretty tough for a college coaching staff to watch a HS game in Pennsylvania when at the same time that the college team is playing in Wisconsin.  Furthermore by that time his HS season rolled around, he had already committed.  What point was there to seeing him then?

They saw him briefly during the IS8 tournament in New York where Maymon was playing.  Roseboro's play prior to that hadn't really led anyone to think that he was ready for high major ball, and he committed soon after that.

[Brewtown Andy]

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/34377309.html

Buzz on Roseboro on signing day, the first day he can officially comment on recruits:

He doesn't know where he's at quite yet physically, and he's not quite sure what he needs to do on the court in a lot of ways.

"The reason we got Brett was not because he blew up. When he blew up, I asked Aki, 'Hey, Aki, what's going on with this kid?' And he said, 'Coach, I've been recruiting him for a month.' And I said, 'Well, why didn't you tell me?' And he said, 'Coach, I knew you were tired of wasting days.' Because obviously every time we leave campus, that counts as a day.

"We did a home visit with Brett right at the very end of the contact period in the fall, and then because of Aki's relationship with the coach, and the AAU coaches and the mom, and Brett most importantly, we were able to hold fim on that."

So, I'm seeing that Buzz & Collins did do their homework on BR & they knew his limitations at the get go.

I have to guess that they weren't seeing the development that they were expecting to see in the last 10 months.

[StillAWarrior]

My bet is that he's [Roseboro] the first Buzz recruit to transfer. 

Notice the date on the Sultan's prediction.

It seems unanimous among the people that matter that Buzz and staff made a recruiting mistake with Roseboro.  Buzz and staff seem to realize it, Roseboro seems to accept it, and Roseboro's HS coaches seem to agree.  I think that having recognized the mistake, the big question is what to do about it.  I think it is better for everyone involved to fix this early instead of late.  Like a lot of other people, my guess is that Buzz (or someone on the staff) had a frank conversation with Brett and told him that he faces a real uphill battle at MU.  I'm not sure that I would characterize this as "running him off" but I'd guess that they made it pretty clear to him that his career at MU probably wouldn't be all that he'd hoped for and his basketball aspirations would be better served somewhere else.  I'm hoping MU was willing to honor the scholarship and gave Brett the option to stay a year if he wanted, but everyone realized that there was no reason to drag things out.

I hope Brett finds a program that feels right to him and hope he has a great college career.

[GGGG]

Holy crap...I forgot I posted that.  I'm a flippin' genius! 

(But I remember I got roasted for that post now that I think about it.)

[ecompt]

MU did watch Roseboro play in AAU ball. There was no reason to ever watch him play on his Quakertown team because there is little if any talent in that league. Congrats to Brett for recognizing his limitations and the way it was handled.

[wesmat23]

I agree with you 100%. I don't think the coaching staff pushed him off at all, if they did he should of said something when the media interviewed him. Coach may have had talks and told him he needs to improve quite a bit on all areas of his game before he sees anything more than garbage minutes. He knows that he has no career in basketball after college and wants to play as soon and often as possble now. Kids don't want to sit on the bench for 2 years and develope before they see alot of gametime.

[Goatherder]

The way I see it, it's just a microcosm of college attrition rates in general.  This is just a very specific student demographic.  I mean, with 7 players coming in 1 class, odds are higher that not all 7 will stay!  I mean, not to pout, but Ous was the only person left from my year's original recruiting class (bye bye Dameon Mason, Amoroso, and?? ) by the time I graduated, so it definitely happens.  Obviously with 7 new faces, that is 6 new people he has to compete w/ for PT as well as whatever PT will go to the returning players.  It is just so much less clear cut versus joining a non rebuilding team (hence the last minute change up?? notice it happened right after our 2 internat'ls were approved....)  I am glad Brett was able to recognize (or was shown) the writing on the wall; no one wants someone here if they are not going to be happy and/or succeed. 

With weather like last week's . . . bring on October!

Hate to break it to you, but Dameon Mason was not in the recruiting class your freshman year.  He came in right after the Final Four in the fall of 2003.  In his class were James Matthews, Brandon Bell, and Carlton Christian.  All four were gone in two years, and two of them did not last a year.  That was a serious problem for the Crean staff.  Amoroso came in a year after that and left.  Matt Mortenson came in, red-shirted, had a problem with an NCAA rule, and was declared ineligible and transferred.  Niv Berkowicz came in at the semester, played in one game, and headed back to Israel.  Not a good period for Marquette recruiting. 

[rugbydrummer]

Hate to break it to you, but Dameon Mason was not in the recruiting class your freshman year.  He came in right after the Final Four in the fall of 2003.  In his class were James Matthews, Brandon Bell, and Carlton Christian.  All four were gone in two years, and two of them did not last a year.  That was a serious problem for the Crean staff.  Amoroso came in a year after that and left.  Matt Mortenson came in, red-shirted, had a problem with an NCAA rule, and was declared ineligible and transferred.  Niv Berkowicz came in at the semester, played in one game, and headed back to Israel.  Not a good period for Marquette recruiting. 

No hard feelings, I know that time was a little fuzzy for me (MU basketball was just so new and shiny for me back then!)  Also I hang out with alum a couple years my senior at the games (not that it's a valid excuse) and they had seen a James Matthews jersey at one of the games last season and they were like "WHERE did he get that??"  Certainly out of those 4 the only one i remember was Mason.  He was supposed to be the next solid player, but it looks like he fizzled out at LSU, what a shame.

so my class was Ous & Ammo originally ... then MM, Niv .... yeah there was a bit of revolving door action, good thing we landed those 3 amigos to stay!  I was wondering when someone was going to fill in the blanks on my post, thanks goatherder

[bma725]

so my class was Ous & Ammo originally ... then MM, Niv .... yeah there was a bit of revolving door action, good thing we landed those 3 amigos to stay!  I was wondering when someone was going to fill in the blanks on my post, thanks goatherder

Mort wasn't in that class.  Mort was with the Amigos, Burke and Lott.  During that era it went:

2003: MJax, Bell, Christian, Mason, James Matthews
2004: Ammo, Barro, Kinsella, Niv
2005: Amigos, Mortensen, Burke, Lott

[T-Bone]

I don't put in much stock with what most HS/Prep/AAU coaches say.  In this instance, the coach at Quakerstate is the one with the inflammatory quotes and Brett makes simple, professional statements. 

Looks like we're out of the Quakertown recruiting pipeline. 

Brett, best of luck.

[MU86NC]

Buzz is and will continue to recruit.  In the Charlotte Observer today a story on David Chadwick Jr. who signed to play at Wash. St. under Tony Benett.  When Bennett bolted to VA he left Chadwick in the dust.  Chadwick will play for Hargrave Military Academy this year but in the article he says Marquette had contacted him about pursuing a last minute scholarship for this school year....