Trevor Powell---Where is he now?

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

I would gladly shake Jimmy Carter's hand.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

I think Bob Knight's not the greatest of human beings.  But, if he were coaching MU, and my son wanted to go to his camp at the AL, get instruction from what I assume is a variety of coaches, meet and talk with MU players, I would pay for him to go in a heartbeat.  It's not like Hayward was sending his kid for one-on-one basketball instruction with TC at a local playground.  Quite an over-exaggeration on your part to blast him, all in your support for TC (whom I neither like or dislike).

I'm inclined to agree with you...

however...

Hayward's clearly demonstrated a pattern of anti-crean postings. I bet he has a few hundred that somehow reference his dislike for TC.

Posting a few hundred times how much you dislike the guy, and then sending your kid to his camp is a little hypocritical.

If Tom Crean is bad enough that you feel the need to post about him a few hundred times, he's probably bad enough that you could/should send your kids to another camp so you don't add more $ to his pockets.

In my opinion, saying you don't like a guy, but sending your kid anyways is different than 300-400 internet postings ripping a guy and sending your kid anyways.

[Lennys Tap]

This just in....it's called being a parent.  My son may want to go to a rated R movie, too, because it looks cool.  But at his age I'm going to say no.   If my son wanted to go to a baseball camp where the guy is a complete jerk, a turd, doesn't know what he's doing, etc, etc....I'm going to likely say no and put him in a camp where the coach knows what he is doing, where he's going to learn and not be exposed to someone I would feel is a terrible person that is going to harm him in some way as a mentor, etc.

Or, maybe, just maybe the father in this case has overstated just how poor of a coach he is and how descipable a person he is over the last few years.  Just maybe.     More than likely the case because I can't imagine sending someone I love (my child) to a man that is such a douche, such a terrible coach, such a terrible human being, such a poor representative of the human race whether my kid wanted to go or not.   

If you really think your son's first R rated movie (or first anything of consequence, including but not limited to cigarettes, alchohol, pot and Playboy) will occur with your knowledge and consent you are delusional. Just as it's every parent's job to set limits, it's every healty kid's job to test them.

[PE8983]

A few things:
1) It's not like he's going - hypocritical would be if he was going for himself.  It's for his son who wanted to go.
2) I assume there is the whole MU coaching staff there - maybe others?  Why is the whole reason for him not to go all about TC all in protest of him?  Maybe the other benefits of the camp for his son outweigh his own personal dislike for TC.  Playing at the AL, other coach's instruction, interaction with MU players, living in the dorms (?), etc... 
3) I would think the $ go to MU, not into TC's pocket.

[lurch91]

If you REALLy think Crean spent all that much time at his own camp, I got news for you.

These camps are great money makers for the coaches, but most coaches barely appear at these camps that bear their names.  Asst coaches, coaches from smaller programs and former players are the ones who really run the camps and give all the instruction.

I'd be willing to bet that at the awards program at the end of camp was the most those kids had seen of Crean at one stretch the entire week (where he gave all those awards to his own son).

[MR.HAYWARD]

I'm inclined to agree with you...

however...

Hayward's clearly demonstrated a pattern of anti-crean postings. I bet he has a few hundred that somehow reference his dislike for TC.

Posting a few hundred times how much you dislike the guy, and then sending your kid to his camp is a little hypocritical.

If Tom Crean is bad enough that you feel the need to post about him a few hundred times, he's probably bad enough that you could/should send your kids to another camp so you don't add more $ to his pockets.

In my opinion, saying you don't like a guy, but sending your kid anyways is different than 300-400 internet postings ripping a guy and sending your kid anyways.

they go to 4-5 camps each summer.  they are all elite camps very intense high energy camps for "non-beginners".  They go to the MU camp to mingle and associate with their heroes and it is their favorite camp for that reason.  I am bigger than that to not send them there due to personal reasons.  Crean was there 5 minutes a day and maybe 15 on the last day.  Any parent who would not send them to something they wanted to go to and would cause them no harm is petty and immature. 

[StillAWarrior]

I'd be willing to bet that at the awards program at the end of camp was the most those kids had seen of Crean at one stretch the entire week (where he gave all those awards to his own son).

I would also be willing to bet that Crean did not select who would receive the awards.

I'm not excusing him though, because he should have made sure that this didn't happen.  I remember this coming up in a prior thread on this point and I agree with whoever said that Crean should have told the camp staff to not give any awards to his kid -- or at most give him one award.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Perhaps you're exaggerating the situation a little to fit your aggenda.  Sure, Hayward may not like the guy, but you insinuating that he thinks TC's a: 1) "despicable human being" and a 2) "poor representative of the human race" - that's quite a reach.

Why is it a reach....he only has about 250 posts in the last 24 months verifying that's exactly how he feels and even uses those exact words.

If anyone's agenda has been cooked, it's been Hayward's with this revelation.  A classic step in a big, steamy pile of crap on his part.

[ChicosBailBonds]

If you really think your son's first R rated movie (or first anything of consequence, including but not limited to cigarettes, alchohol, pot and Playboy) will occur with your knowledge and consent you are delusional. Just as it's every parent's job to set limits, it's every healty kid's job to test them.

Where did I ever say I don't expect him to push the limits, do his own thing?  Of course he will.  But at his current age, without transportation, without money, he's not going to be able to go to a rated R movie, a baseball camp, a basketball camp, or anything else that requires $$$ and/or transportation without his parents knowing.  Period.   

He needs not only my tacit approval but more. 


You guys are all missing the greater point.  Hayward has shitcanned Crean for 2 straight years calling him a horrible human being, a descipable human being, an unethical human being, a horrible coach, a terrible coach, a coach who couldn't coach himself out of a wet paper bag, etc (I could go on, but those are just a few of his words) and he turns around and sends his own kid to a Tom Crean basketball camp.

I'm sorry, but that's just PRICELESS.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

they go to 4-5 camps each summer.  they are all elite camps very intense high energy camps for "non-beginners".  They go to the MU camp to mingle and associate with their heroes and it is their favorite camp for that reason.  I am bigger than that to not send them there due to personal reasons.  Crean was there 5 minutes a day and maybe 15 on the last day.  Any parent who would not send them to something they wanted to go to and would cause them no harm is petty and immature.  

Hmmm... I really want to drop this discussion... but I do have 1 more question:

If Crean was only there for 20 minutes total, why are you blasting him for the awards? Don't you think he had somebody else "evaluate" the kids and just give him the list of award winners?

I'm not trying to make an excuse for the guy, but you seem to only blame him for what when wrong with the awards when he wasn't even there.

If you want to be critical of anything, be critical that he wasn't there enough. Don't complain about the awards, TC probably didn't even do them (just read them).

[ChicosBailBonds]

I think Bob Knight's not the greatest of human beings.  But, if he were coaching MU, and my son wanted to go to his camp at the AL, get instruction from what I assume is a variety of coaches, meet and talk with MU players, I would pay for him to go in a heartbeat.  It's not like Hayward was sending his kid for one-on-one basketball instruction with TC at a local playground.  Quite an over-exaggeration on your part to blast him, all in your support for TC (whom I neither like or dislike).

It has nothing to do with support of Crean.  Hey, I applaud Crean for what he did at MU, the second best coach in MU history.  That's all.  I just chime in when people say really stupid things that are factually untrue, basically 85% of Hayward's comments.  Big difference.   Hayward can do whatever he wants with his kids, but the irony of him send his own kids to a Tom Crean camp is PRICELESS. 

[StillAWarrior]

Hmmm... I really want to drop this discussion... but I do have 1 more question:

If Crean was only there for 20 minutes total, why are you blasting him for the awards? Don't you think he had somebody else "evaluate" the kids and just give him the list of award winners?

I'm not trying to make an excuse for the guy, but you seem to only blame him for what when wrong with the awards when he wasn't even there.

If you want to be critical of anything, be critical that he wasn't there enough. Don't complain about the awards, TC probably didn't even do them (just read them).

This is the point I addressed above, so I'll venture a guess as to what is answer is going to be.  Crean should have told those who selected the recipients of the awards to not give them to his son.  Or, at the very least, should have limited it.  That's what I'd like to think I'd do if I were in Crean's shoes.

This does raise the possibility that Crean might have been mortified by all the awards.  He might have awarded what was written to avoid embarassing his staff and coaches, but he might have ripped them a new one behind closed doors.  Did this ever happen again in subsequent camps?

Edited to add:  I'm not saiying that this happened.  I have no idea .   But I wonder if this was a one-time thing (one time too many) or if it has happened at multiple camps.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

This is the point I addressed above, so I'll venture a guess as to what is answer is going to be.  Crean should have told those who selected the recipients of the awards to not give them to his son.  Or, at the very least, should have limited it.  That's what I'd like to think I'd do if I were in Crean's shoes.

This does raise the possibility that Crean might have been mortified by all the awards.  He might have awarded what was written to avoid embarassing his staff and coaches, but he might have ripped them a new one behind closed doors.  Did this ever happen again in subsequent camps?

Edited to add:  I'm not saiying that this happened.  I have no idea .   But I wonder if this was a one-time thing (one time too many) or if it has happened at multiple camps.

Agreed.

I'll go 1 step backwards, and just say, "How can you hold the guy responsible for everything when he's only there for 20min.?"

The answer is really, "Then he should be there for more of the camp." (which I agree with).

BUT, I want to point out that maybe the Riley thing is probably just a symptom that Tom Crean isn't at his basketball camp enough to ensure that the entire camp runs well (including the awards). It's not a symptom that he is a horrible human being that gives his son everything.

[Lennys Tap]

I would also be willing to bet that Crean did not select who would receive the awards.

I'm not excusing him though, because he should have made sure that this didn't happen.  I remember this coming up in a prior thread on this point and I agree with whoever said that Crean should have told the camp staff to not give any awards to his kid -- or at most give him one award.

TC is notoriously hard on his assistants. If they selected the award winners, I'd bet someone in advance gave them the "It's Riley, It's Riley" speech. Wonder who?

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

TC is notoriously hard on his assistants. If they selected the award winners, I'd bet someone in advance gave them the "It's Riley, It's Riley" speech. Wonder who?

You're absolutely right.

Part of Crean's 20min at the camp was to make sure that Riley won everything. He is notoriously hard on everybody who works for him (so hard that they run off for other jobs), but he doesn't push his son, Riley at all. He hands everything to him, including all of the camper awards.

This isn't surprising, I've seen this 1000 times before.

[MR.HAYWARD]

please guys it is not that hard...it was the third camp of the year.  If riley is so good he sweeps the awards dont you think that my have been an issue in the first 2 camps ( yes the coaches kids go to all the camps)  or an issue in the years past?  

Or if not dont you ( i darn well know i would HAve) the second or third time you sons name comes up quickly turn off the mic and bring over a counselor and say " who was your best...." turn the mic back on and say that kids name?  Please lets not be so dense.

How about doing what most fathers would do and make it known ... "no awards for my kid"  

simple ...dont make it so hard  

[4everwarriors]

Maybe we should just twitter the SOB douche bag and ax him WTF he was thinking about?

[Lennys Tap]

You're absolutely right.

Part of Crean's 20min at the camp was to make sure that Riley won everything. He is notoriously hard on everybody who works for him (so hard that they run off for other jobs), but he doesn't push his son, Riley at all. He hands everything to him, including all of the camper awards.

This isn't surprising, I've seen this 1000 times before.

+1. FYI, you accidently hit the teal button.