BIG EAST: To Split or Not to Split

[Tugg Speedman]

Have not seen this posted before ...

http://news.collegesportsinfo.com/2009/05/big-east-to-split-or-not-to-split.html

Lengthy article, die hards into the subject will like it.  The rest will find it too detailed.

[GGGG]

Really good article.  A split really would not be in the best interests of the basketball schools.  We'd become the A10.

[MR.HAYWARD]

same old tired arguments ... boring  what if i'fs and buts were candy and nuts

[TJ]

Not to split.  Speaking from a Marquette point of view, it does us absolutely no good.  Only potential harm could come from a split.

[79Warrior]

This conference will realign. just like the old WAC, 16 teams is to many. The rumblings have already begun. it is a matter of time.

[JTBMU7]

Has there been any thought given to splitting the Big East into 2 Divisions instead of totally remaking it? Why not have 8 in the BE north and 8 in the BE South and align it that way? I'm sure there are 6 million reasons that wouldn't work but it sounds simple enough.

I also wouldn't mind if this split did occur and it was MU, Depaul, GTown, Nova, St Johns, SH, PC, and ND with Xavier and SLU rounding it out at 10. I think that would be a cool balance between north east schools and midwest schools.

Not like any of this will happen anytime soon, the BE super conference is too big a money maker to mess with I think.

[GGGG]

Has there been any thought given to splitting the Big East into 2 Divisions instead of totally remaking it? Why not have 8 in the BE north and 8 in the BE South and align it that way? I'm sure there are 6 million reasons that wouldn't work but it sounds simple enough.

I also wouldn't mind if this split did occur and it was MU, Depaul, GTown, Nova, St Johns, SH, PC, and ND with Xavier and SLU rounding it out at 10. I think that would be a cool balance between north east schools and midwest schools.

Not like any of this will happen anytime soon, the BE super conference is too big a money maker to mess with I think.

It's a money maker overall, but the bigger it gets, the per school share is likely to drop.  I think 79Warrior is right - a split will happen.  It may not be for ten years, but I think the disparities between football and basketball will continue to grow.

[Avenue Commons]

I also wouldn't mind if this split did occur and it was MU, Depaul, GTown, Nova, St Johns, SH, PC, and ND with Xavier and SLU rounding it out at 10. I think that would be a cool balance between north east schools and midwest schools.

Agreed, except we'd want Dayton instead of SLU. SLU is too far west. That is problematic for the non-revenue sports.

[jaybilaswho?]

Agreed, except we'd want Dayton instead of SLU. SLU is too far west. That is problematic for the non-revenue sports.

I didnt read the article but...

SLU is too far west? you go west about 70 miles then go south 300 miles.

[Ellenson Guerrero]

I dont think it will happen. If they can figure out a way for the football schools to keep more of the football tv and bowl money I don't think its in anyone's interest to split.

[GGGG]

I didnt read the article but...

SLU is too far west? you go west about 70 miles then go south 300 miles.

I was about to say the same thing, but he means too far west for the east coast schools in such a conference.  However, a quick mapquest shows that a bus ride from New York to St. Louis is about the same as a bus ride from New York to Milwaukee.

[GGGG]

I dont think it will happen. If they can figure out a way for the football schools to keep more of the football tv and bowl money I don't think its in anyone's interest to split.

The football schools already get all of the football television and bowl money.

[MR.HAYWARD]

Agreed, except we'd want Dayton instead of SLU. SLU is too far west. That is problematic for the non-revenue sports.

actually significantly chaeper to get to SLu than Dayton...the small town schools are expensive to get into.  That is why schools in the b11 and big 12 all have school owned planes...too damn expensive to fly into places like bllomington, stillwatyer, manhattan, champaign etc.  dayton same deal .... slu is a hub. 

[Ellenson Guerrero]

The football schools already get all of the football television and bowl money.

The article didn't seem to insinuate that.

"Instinct is to look at the basic math: If the total contract is for X dollars, and its being split by 16 teams, then cutting the total number of teams to 8 would double the revenue. It's not that easy. The current TV contract which expires in 2013 is based on the 16 teams and the existing markets."

It appeared to me as the whole reasoning as to why the football schools would like to split. Other than that I see no real incentive for them.

[sailwi]

Cheap airfares is a non-issue most BE teams charter which is based on miles, time not how big the location is.

[79Warrior]

I dont think it will happen. If they can figure out a way for the football schools to keep more of the football tv and bowl money I don't think its in anyone's interest to split.

It is not about football money. Only the football teams share that cash. The football schools want a higher profile. they would prefer a couple of more football programs.

In addition, some of the bball coaches have expressed displeasure numerous times with the hoops setup. 16 teams is just too large. We may not like it, but that is the reality. The old WAC went to 16 teams and fell apart for the many of the same reasons.

[Nukem2]

It is not about football money. Only the football teams share that cash. The football schools want a higher profile. they would prefer a couple of more football programs.

In addition, some of the bball coaches have expressed displeasure numerous times with the hoops setup. 16 teams is just too large. We may not like it, but that is the reality. The old WAC went to 16 teams and fell apart for the many of the same reasons.

The WAC had a lot of other issues including logistics, name recognition, no TV and the like.

[chapman]

It is not about football money. Only the football teams share that cash. The football schools want a higher profile. they would prefer a couple of more football programs.

This is the key thing with the football argument---where are 8 teams going to go?  Form their own conference, which leaves them with a tiny basketball conference?  Rally some MAC teams to join them?  They don't exactly have the upper hand, they're holding on for dear life if the Big Ten would steal even Rutgers.  The football teams play 7 conference games and 5 non-conference games already.  If anything, it would be preferable if the whole football/non-football "balance" shifted towards more football programs.  The size of the league does not allow easy addition, so that means subtraction may need to happen.  But 8 schools aren't going anywhere alone.  Being in the same conference as Xavier or SLU will be a mid-major no matter how you slice it.

The WAC had a lot of other issues including logistics, name recognition, no TV and the like.

Agreed.  Using a sample size of one that compares in size only to the curent Big East isn't a good comparison.  The 16-team WAC was never called the best conference ever assembled and never an ESPN staple like the current Big East, never penetrated several of the largest media markets, and all the things that make a league work.

[ecompt]

Maybe the football schools would have a higher profile if they didn't suck so badly. Louisville had one great year, Cincy is mediocre, Syracuse is a joke, UConn is just getting started, Pitt has an idiot of a head coach, and the good football schools (BC, Va. Tech and Miami) told them sayonara.

[GGGG]

This is the key thing with the football argument---where are 8 teams going to go?  Form their own conference, which leaves them with a tiny basketball conference?  Rally some MAC teams to join them?  They don't exactly have the upper hand, they're holding on for dear life if the Big Ten would steal even Rutgers.  The football teams play 7 conference games and 5 non-conference games already.  If anything, it would be preferable if the whole football/non-football "balance" shifted towards more football programs.  The size of the league does not allow easy addition, so that means subtraction may need to happen.  But 8 schools aren't going anywhere alone.  Being in the same conference as Xavier or SLU will be a mid-major no matter how you slice it.

The problem that the BE football schools have is that 8 teams is too small a conference and also requires an unbalanced schedule.  If they could get just one more team to join, that wouldn't water down the revenue, my guess is that's a solution that might satisfy all parties.  But the problem is, who is that team?  Memphis, East Carolina and the like certainly don't help from a revenue perspective.  Notre Dame won't join.  Neither will anyone else.