High graduation rate OR basketball success

[ChicosBailBonds]

it is a tier 3 school.

Depends on what service you use. 

The Center For Measuring Research Performance ranks UC in the top 25 in the nation.

http://mup.asu.edu/research.html

These are people that do this for a living, not a magazine that decided to self proclaim itself the guru of school rankings once each year.  Kudos to US News and World report for filling a void, but I always found it quite hilarious how much stock people put into their ratings when it's not even remotely at the core of what they do.  There are organizations and research entities that all they do is this type of thing.  The Gourman Reports as an example. 

[Tugg Speedman]

These are people that do this for a living, not a magazine that decided to self proclaim itself the guru of school rankings once each year.  Kudos to US News and World report for filling a void, but I always found it quite hilarious how much stock people put into their ratings when it's not even remotely at the core of what they do.  There are organizations and research entities that all they do is this type of thing.  The Gourman Reports as an example. 

http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/college/items/3125

Tier 3 - it's a four year community college. 

[ChicosBailBonds]

http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/college/items/3125

Tier 3 - it's a four year community college. 

You just proved my point, people putting stock into USNews, a magazine that does this vs real research entities that truly evaluate schools.

Just look at the major CEOs in this country from UC compared to say....MU.

I never understood why people put stock in the US News report except for the fact that it's in the mainstream.  They are not "experts" on college and universities but because they publish a once a year publication on this, they have become the de facto publication that people reference. 

Why people don't reference organizations that do this 24/7/365 I never understood, but that's how it works in America apparently. 

[Pakuni]

You just proved my point, people putting stock into USNews, a magazine that does this vs real research entities that truly evaluate schools.

Just look at the major CEOs in this country from UC compared to say....MU.

I never understood why people put stock in the US News report except for the fact that it's in the mainstream.  They are not "experts" on college and universities but because they publish a once a year publication on this, they have become the de facto publication that people reference. 

Why people don't reference organizations that do this 24/7/365 I never understood, but that's how it works in America apparently. 

I'm not a huge fan of the US News rankings, mainly because, IMO, they heavily favor of larger, public universities than smaller, private schools.
That said, the most important factor in their calculations is peer rating, i.e. what academicians at other schools think of your school.
So it's a good bet that, because Cincy is ranked a Tier 3 institution, professors and administrators elsewhere don't think terribly highly of the school.
Again, I don't love their rankings, but let's not act as if they somehow have less expertise than some think tank.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I'm not a huge fan of the US News rankings, mainly because, IMO, they heavily favor of larger, public universities than smaller, private schools.
That said, the most important factor in their calculations is peer rating, i.e. what academicians at other schools think of your school.
So it's a good bet that, because Cincy is ranked a Tier 3 institution, professors and administrators elsewhere don't think terribly highly of the school.
Again, I don't love their rankings, but let's not act as if they somehow have less expertise than some think tank.

True, but it only represents 25% of the total ranking.  Besides, I'm not sure I'd want a rival to judge how good another school is potentially.  It may work, it may not.  Hard to say.  But 75% of the score comes from outside of the peer review process.




http://www.usnews.com/articles/education/best-colleges/2008/08/21/how-we-calculate-the-rankings.html?PageNr=2

[Tugg Speedman]

Let's get back to the question at hand ...

Does/can a "criminal" FB or BB program change the academic reputation of a university.  I say no. 

We have cited many examples above where well respected academic reputations were not affected by "criminal behavior."  Further, when a university gets defined by its FB or BB program's bad bahavior it is because their were existing questions about its reputation and the FB or BB programs action only reinforces it.  It does not create it.

Anyone disagree and want the make the case that one's diploma can be tarnished by too many weed smokin', gun totin', illegitimate baby makin', power forwards?

[ChicosBailBonds]

Let's get back to the question at hand ...

Does/can a "criminal" FB or BB program change the academic reputation of a university.  I say no. 

We have cited many examples above where well respected academic reputations were not affected by "criminal behavior."  Further, when a university gets defined by its FB or BB program's bad bahavior it is because their were existing questions about its reputation and the FB or BB programs action only reinforces it.  It does not create it.

Anyone disagree and want the make the case that one's diploma can be tarnished by too many weed smokin', gun totin', illegitimate baby makin', power forwards?

Sure it can, a reputation is often not based in facts.  Miami (FL) is a good school, but has a bad academic reputation by many because of the football team.  USC is a very very good school, but has taken a hit for many years out here because of the football team.   UNLV took a horrible pounding in the 1990's with their reputation.

I assume by reputation you mean what people think about the school, what a lay person might think. 

Look at any segment in sports, happens all the time.  Dallas Cowboys during the 1990's had some bad character guys and that sullied the entire team because of how about 5 guys acted.  The team then had the reputation of all being criminals, etc.

So yes, it can influence a reputation.

[1990Warrior]

Depends on what service you use. 

The Center For Measuring Research Performance ranks UC in the top 25 in the nation.

http://mup.asu.edu/research.html

These are people that do this for a living, not a magazine that decided to self proclaim itself the guru of school rankings once each year.  Kudos to US News and World report for filling a void, but I always found it quite hilarious how much stock people put into their ratings when it's not even remotely at the core of what they do.  There are organizations and research entities that all they do is this type of thing.  The Gourman Reports as an example. 

Chicos,
This analysis is based on research dollars brought in and has nothing to do with the quality of the undergraduate experience at the university.  If you do not have a medical school, you are seriously handicapped in this type of analysis because NIH is the biggest source of federal funding.  It might serve as a good guide to graduate programs but that is as far as it goes.

[DomJamesToTheBasket]

I voted for pancakes. MU is more than moderately successful right now with a 100% graduation rate. I think we're on the right path.

[Tugg Speedman]

I certainly want upstanding student athletes with intentions to graduate, but guys Marquette does not have the reputation of the schools mention in this thread. Not even close.

SAN JOSE MERCURY NEWS

SunPower CEO pledges $5 million

SunPower announced that CEO Thomas Werner has pledged $5 million to the College of Engineering at his alma mater, Marquette University, to establish an endowed chair in secure and renewable energy systems. Werner earned his bachelor's degree in electrical engineering from Marquette in 1986 and was named the college's Distinguished Alumnus of the Year in 2007.

"I am honored to offer this chair to Marquette and hope that it will inspire more executives to reach out to their alma maters," said Werner. "Our hope is that the Werner Chair will create additional interest and advances in harvesting sustainable solutions.''

SunPower is a San Jose manufacturer of high-efficiency solar cells, solar panels and solar systems.

[THEGYMBAR]

I would take the last 8 years over ruining our reputation. In a perfect world I would sacrifice a small amount of graduation rate for more wins, but that is very fine line.

[dsfire]

Depends on what service you use. 

The Center For Measuring Research Performance ranks UC in the top 25 in the nation.

http://mup.asu.edu/research.html

These are people that do this for a living, not a magazine that decided to self proclaim itself the guru of school rankings once each year.  Kudos to US News and World report for filling a void, but I always found it quite hilarious how much stock people put into their ratings when it's not even remotely at the core of what they do.  There are organizations and research entities that all they do is this type of thing.  The Gourman Reports as an example. 

UC themselves quote the US News rankings, and list themselves "among the top 100 universities in the nation": http://www.uc.edu/about/ucfactsheet.html#usnwr

It appears that as of a couple of years ago, the average ACT score for incoming freshmen was 24: http://www.businessweek.com/bschools/07/undergrad/profiles/cincinnati1.htm.  I tried finding that data on the UC site itself, but the only ACT scores I saw were broken down by program.

I don't doubt that the programs you listed are good (the first link ranks some of them within the top 5-10 in the nation), but the overall numbers don't seem to match up to a "top 25" undergraduate university.

[dsfire]

Let's get back to the question at hand ...

Does/can a "criminal" FB or BB program change the academic reputation of a university.  I say no. 

We have cited many examples above where well respected academic reputations were not affected by "criminal behavior."  Further, when a university gets defined by its FB or BB program's bad bahavior it is because their were existing questions about its reputation and the FB or BB programs action only reinforces it.  It does not create it.

Anyone disagree and want the make the case that one's diploma can be tarnished by too many weed smokin', gun totin', illegitimate baby makin', power forwards?

I'm not sure it matters.  Even if a scandal within the MU basketball program had no effect on the utility of my degree, I still would prefer to support a clean program over a shady-but-more-successful one.

[Warriors4ever]

+1

[ChicosBailBonds]

I'm not sure it matters.  Even if a scandal within the MU basketball program had no effect on the utility of my degree, I still would prefer to support a clean program over a shady-but-more-successful one.

My thoughts as well

[GooooMarquette]

Mmmmmm, pancakes!