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Next up: A long offseason

Marquette
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Marquette
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Date/Time: Oct 4, 2025
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Schedule for 2024-25
New Mexico
75

Which would you prefer

Moderate basketball success and continued high graduation rates.
Give me 30 win seasons, graduating takes a backseat to success
I love pancakes

Skatastrophy


Skatastrophy

Man... who would've thought that pancakes would be neck-and-neck with graduating recruits?

I really would have thought there would have been more bitching about the omission of French Toast as an option.  :P

Brewtown Andy

I believe someone said something about pancakes?
Twitter - @brewtownandy
Anonymous Eagle

Dry White Toast

As of 10:02 Central on 5/22, only 6 of 31 people have given an honest opinion (or love pancakes less than bball).

REALLY?  "Moderate" success???  If you are an MU hoops freak, (and judging by your participation in this forum you are), how can you not vote for option 2?

I don't want MU to become Cinci under Huggy, but puh-lease.  If we win a national title nobody would care how many seniors that year graduate.  And if we are successfull enough, we start turning players to the NBA in 2 or 3 years.

bma725

Quote from: Dry White Toast on May 22, 2009, 10:06:17 PM
REALLY?  "Moderate" success???  If you are an MU hoops freak, (and judging by your participation in this forum you are), how can you not vote for option 2?

Simple, some of us love MU the institution even more than we love MU hoops, and we don't want to sacrifice the integrity or reputation of the institution for a banner and rather ugly trophy.

Aughnanure

Moderate basketball success and continued high graduation rates.
Give me 30 win seasons, graduating takes a backseat to success
I love pancakes
   
Really? thats it? thats a way to limited number of options. I think you can have the best of both worlds if done correctly....and no one pays attention to graduation rates when you are just "moderate"
“All men dream; but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity; but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act out their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible.” - T.E. Lawrence

rocky_warrior

#6

ChicosBailBonds

Quote from: Dry White Toast on May 22, 2009, 10:06:17 PM
As of 10:02 Central on 5/22, only 6 of 31 people have given an honest opinion (or love pancakes less than bball).

REALLY?  "Moderate" success???  If you are an MU hoops freak, (and judging by your participation in this forum you are), how can you not vote for option 2?

I don't want MU to become Cinci under Huggy, but puh-lease.  If we win a national title nobody would care how many seniors that year graduate.  And if we are successfull enough, we start turning players to the NBA in 2 or 3 years.

It all depends on your definition of "moderate success".   If what we've done the last 8 years is considered moderate success plus graduating almost all our players, no NCAA violations, etc.....then I'll take that in a heartbeat rather than end up on the police blotters, or the bottom of some list every year that shows we aren't there as an academic institution first.

Do you think people respect schools like UCLA or Duke winning the national title over schools like Memphis or UNLV?  Of course they do.   Schools with solid academics can be successful and are respected much more than those that appear to just be a NBA minor league.

Brewtown Andy

Quote from: KCMarq09 on May 22, 2009, 11:48:10 PM
Moderate basketball success and continued high graduation rates.
Give me 30 win seasons, graduating takes a backseat to success
I love pancakes
   
Really? thats it? thats a way to limited number of options.

Sounds like someone's the president of the Waffle Society of America.
Twitter - @brewtownandy
Anonymous Eagle

VegasWarrior77

Quote from: Brewtown Andy on May 23, 2009, 01:50:16 AM
Sounds like someone's the president of the Waffle Society of America.

I thought Brett Favre held that title.

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe." Albert Einstein

Tugg Speedman

#10
We have moderate sucess and a high graduation rate now.  So, those that answered that way are happy to see us lower ranked and exit early in the tourney every year and have no problem if we continue this trend?  I don't think so.

Regarding the "respect" for a school ...

   *How about Georgetown?  During Papa Thompson days they had some "marginal characters" on the team.  Anyone want to make the case that their academic reputation suffered? 

   *UCLA has had its "issues" in the past. 

   *Duke had the Lacrosse thing. 

   *Did Mu's reputation suffer because of Oliver Lee or Tom Copa? 

   *Did Brent Moss diminish Madison's academic reputation in your eyes? 

   *How about Eric Bieminey (sp?) flashing gang signs after a touchdown in Boulder a few years back. 

   *Is Kentucky's academic reputation now tumbling because of Calipari and especially since he signed a criminal named John Wall as a PG this week?  I'll guess not.

The schools that have that reputation as "criminal schools" (UNLV, Memphis, Cincy, "The U", Louisville) get it because of the PRECEPTION of their ACADEMIC standing.  Troubled FB and BB players only reinforce it, not create it.  Schools with a good academic reputation (Georgetown) shake it off no matter how many FBI agents are assigned to watch their players.



A better question is how many run-ins with the law would you tolerate for a Uconn/Louisville type of program?

NavinRJohnson

What would I have to choose from only those two options? The answer is both.

Nukem2

Quote from: NavinRJohnson on May 23, 2009, 08:43:02 AM
What would I have to choose from only those two options? The answer is both.
Correct.  This poll is obviously flawed by limited options..... :)

Brewtown Andy

Twitter - @brewtownandy
Anonymous Eagle

jficke13

The choices aren't mutually exclusive. We could be a competitive team in the tourney every year without sacrificing to the Huggins idol.

Warriors4ever

The questions may be flawed, but they are the questions that were posted.  So given those choices, I would still take option #1 over option #2, for the reason articulated by another poster - I love the institution even more than the basketball.  Now if waffles were in the mix...........

IAmMarquette


Pakuni

Quote from: AnotherMU84 on May 23, 2009, 07:42:30 AM
We have moderate sucess and a high graduation rate now.  So, those that answered that way are happy to see us lower ranked and exit early in the tourney every year and have no problem if we continue this trend?  I don't think so.

Regarding the "respect" for a school ...

   *How about Georgetown?  During Papa Thompson days they had some "marginal characters" on the team.  Anyone want to make the case that their academic reputation suffered? 

   *UCLA has had its "issues" in the past. 

   *Duke had the Lacrosse thing. 

   *Did Mu's reputation suffer because of Oliver Lee or Tom Copa? 

   *Did Brent Moss diminish Madison's academic reputation in your eyes? 

   *How about Eric Bieminey (sp?) flashing gang signs after a touchdown in Boulder a few years back. 

   *Is Kentucky's academic reputation now tumbling because of Calipari and especially since he signed a criminal named John Wall as a PG this week?  I'll guess not.

The schools that have that reputation as "criminal schools" (UNLV, Memphis, Cincy, "The U", Louisville) get it because of the PRECEPTION of their ACADEMIC standing.  Troubled FB and BB players only reinforce it, not create it.  Schools with a good academic reputation (Georgetown) shake it off no matter how many FBI agents are assigned to watch their players.



A better question is how many run-ins with the law would you tolerate for a Uconn/Louisville type of program?

Good post. It's very unlikely that Marquette's academic reputation - or that of most other schools - will suffer by letting in a few subpar students to play basketball, much less a recruiting scandal (not that I'd ever like to see one ... just saying).

Some more examples:

- Michigan's academic reputation survived Ed Martin and a current 46 percent grad rate for hoops players

- Cal remains an elite school, despite Todd Bozeman and a current 30 percent grad rate for its basketball team

- Illinois remains highly regarded, despite the Deon Thomas saga

- Northwestern athletics had a major gambling problem, didn't hurt their academic reputation a bit

- Ditto for Boston College and Tulane, both of which have had point-shaving scandals

I guess the bottom line is that MU's academic reputation is not in the least reliant on the graduation rate of a handful of basketball players. I'm happy to see MU players graduate, but whether they do or not has zero bearing on the value of my diploma.

Now I will retire to my kitchen to make some flapjacks.

ChicosBailBonds

Michigan's academic reputation survived, but the academic reputation of their athletes to this day took a huge hit.  Michigan alums were very upset about the hit the school took.

Same with Cal and it caused the school to take huge reforms as a result.  They've also never been in that "elite air" in hoops since that happened.

The other examples as well are being viewed from the outside and not from the perspective of how their alums felt, the damage done internally.

As an IU alum, I was incredibly pissed off at what Sampson did to the hoops program as were most IU alums.  The school was tarnished and took a big hit. Eventually that will go away, but it will stick with the alums for a long time because it affects them more directly.

I'd also disagree with you on Tulane, they never fully recovered after Hod Rod Williams.  The program was complete disbanded for four years.   

bma725

Quote from: AnotherMU84 on May 23, 2009, 07:42:30 AM
The schools that have that reputation as "criminal schools" (UNLV, Memphis, Cincy, "The U", Louisville) get it because of the PRECEPTION of their ACADEMIC standing.  Troubled FB and BB players only reinforce it, not create it.  Schools with a good academic reputation (Georgetown) shake it off no matter how many FBI agents are assigned to watch their players.

You might want to think again about including Miami with those other schools, because pretty much it's the exact opposite.  The U is a world class university.  Tier 1 and on the edge of the Top 50 according to US News(ahead of Marquette).  They've got a Top 50 Business School, Top 50 Medical School, Top 75 Law school etc.

The image of Hurricane athletics on the other hand has killed the perception of academics among the larger public. Because of the behavior of their athletes(specifically football), people think that Miami is a cakewalk university, that it's basically a 4 year JUCO, that anyone can get in to school etc.  The University struggles every day to overcome the image of the place as a football factory when that is clearly not the case.

Nukem2

Quote from: bma725 on May 23, 2009, 02:40:54 PM
You might want to think again about including Miami with those other schools, because pretty much it's the exact opposite.  The U is a world class university.  Tier 1 and on the edge of the Top 50 according to US News(ahead of Marquette).  They've got a Top 50 Business School, Top 50 Medical School, Top 75 Law school etc.

The image of Hurricane athletics on the other hand has killed the perception of academics among the larger public. Because of the behavior of their athletes(specifically football), people think that Miami is a cakewalk university, that it's basically a 4 year JUCO, that anyone can get in to school etc.  The University struggles every day to overcome the image of the place as a football factory when that is clearly not the case.
Agreed.  What is interesting is that academics for the jocks at Miami were in question decades ago.  Not a recent thing.  But, the school itself is quite fine.

ChicosBailBonds

Quote from: bma725 on May 23, 2009, 02:40:54 PM
You might want to think again about including Miami with those other schools, because pretty much it's the exact opposite.  The U is a world class university.  Tier 1 and on the edge of the Top 50 according to US News(ahead of Marquette).  They've got a Top 50 Business School, Top 50 Medical School, Top 75 Law school etc.

The image of Hurricane athletics on the other hand has killed the perception of academics among the larger public. Because of the behavior of their athletes(specifically football), people think that Miami is a cakewalk university, that it's basically a 4 year JUCO, that anyone can get in to school etc.  The University struggles every day to overcome the image of the place as a football factory when that is clearly not the case.

Cincinnati is the same way.  People don't realize it but Cincinnati is a VERY good university academically but the perception of the common man is that it's a joke because of the crap that basketball team has done over the years.

I'll bet that few people on this very board know that Cincinnati is ranked as one of the top 25 public schools in America.  It has a law school, medical school, fantastic school of business, etc but people crap on it's reputation constantly because of the nonsense that 12 guys have brought to it year in and year out.


PuertoRicanNightmare

I certainly want upstanding student athletes with intentions to graduate, but guys Marquette does not have the reputation of the schools mention in this thread. Not even close.

Chili

Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on May 23, 2009, 06:19:59 PM
Cincinnati is the same way.  People don't realize it but Cincinnati is a VERY good university academically but the perception of the common man is that it's a joke because of the crap that basketball team has done over the years.

I'll bet that few people on this very board know that Cincinnati is ranked as one of the top 25 public schools in America.  It has a law school, medical school, fantastic school of business, etc but people crap on it's reputation constantly because of the nonsense that 12 guys have brought to it year in and year out.



it is a tier 3 school.
But I like to throw handfuls...

Tugg Speedman

Quote from: Chili on May 23, 2009, 07:18:27 PM
it is a tier 3 school.

I agree, Cincy is not that good a school.  It is not even the best school in Cincy.  Xavier is better

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