Buzz is a great recruiter... period

[4everwarriors]

Or an NBA megastar to trumpet.

[bilsu]

He is a superior recruiter. The only questions that remains is whether he can develope talent. If a player like McMorrow gets hurt you cannot blame that on bad recruiting. Injuries to James, Fulce, Otule and McMorrow are bad luck and hopefully that evens out over time. Look at Crean's class that just graduated. Matthews missed several games as a freshman with a stress fracture. McNeal missed the end of his sophomore season with a hand injury. James missed the end of his senior year with a broken foot.  Only Burke survived without any serious injury and he basically did not play his first two year By time this freshmen class are juniors MU will be a preseason final four contender. By that I mean they will get a lot of mention as a potential final four team.

[Ready2Fly]

Buzz hasn't had the anchor of a Final Four appearance weighing him down on the recruiting trail.

Ha!  That was absolutely one of the worst arguments I've ever read.

[MR.HAYWARD]

have not heard much of Mu84 lately, he either got back on his meds or his mom took the computer away.  poor Riley he seems to be a troubled kid.  Maybe all the awards his dad gave him at the Mu camps messed him up somehow.

[Skatastrophy]

Ha!  That was absolutely one of the worst arguments I've ever read.

Your sarcasm detector needs a tune-up.

[Marquette84]

have not heard much of Mu84 lately, he either got back on his meds or his mom took the computer away.  poor Riley he seems to be a troubled kid.  Maybe all the awards his dad gave him at the Mu camps messed him up somehow.

I'm going to call you on this one.  It is clearly in violation of the rules of the board:

  Some (very brief) forum rules:
* Respect other posters.  Insults, and flames will not be tolerated

I think your post definitely crosses the line. 

If you want to engage on basketball matters, then do so.  Your contribution in this thread amounts to nothing more than insults and flames.

[Ready2Fly]

Your sarcasm detector needs a tune-up.

No, I totally got it.  He was taking a shot a Marquette84 for one of the worst arguments I've ever read (making a final four hurts recruiting)...  unless I'm missing something?

[Mayor McCheese]

I'm going to call you on this one.  It is clearly in violation of the rules of the board:

  Some (very brief) forum rules:
* Respect other posters.  Insults, and flames will not be tolerated

I think your post definitely crosses the line. 

If you want to engage on basketball matters, then do so.  Your contribution in this thread amounts to nothing more than insults and flames.

But if we get rid of Mr. Hayward, who will give me my laughs throughout the day.  I can't rely on the students for everything.


But onto the subject:

Buzz has done a fine job in his first year, still waiting to see these guys pan out, I have questions on all of the players minus Cadougan, Williams and Maymon

[Hards Alumni]

I'm going to call you on this one.  It is clearly in violation of the rules of the board:

  Some (very brief) forum rules:
* Respect other posters.  Insults, and flames will not be tolerated

I think your post definitely crosses the line. 

If you want to engage on basketball matters, then do so.  Your contribution in this thread amounts to nothing more than insults and flames.

translation: boo hoo, someone made fun o fmy on the internets.

[ChicosBailBonds]

No, I totally got it.  He was taking a shot a Marquette84 for one of the worst arguments I've ever read (making a final four hurts recruiting)...  unless I'm missing something?

I'd say yes, you guys are "missing something".

I think you guys again didn't bother to read what he actually said in his COMPLETE argument.   Making a final four isn't going to hurt that coach necessarily depending on the situation.  What he was saying was that making the final four at a place like Marquette in the initial years of his tenure "may" have hurt him in recruiting because the assumption was that he was going to leave.

You guys keep forgetting that important aspect of his argument....at least that's how I read it.  So in essence, it wasn't really the final four part that hurts, it's the baggage that goes along with it WHEN paired at a place like MU that had gone to ONE SWEET 16 in the previous 20 years.   

That doesn't mean I necessarily agree with his argument, but you guys are stripping out many important aspects in your effort to pillory him. 

The assumption was that Crean was GONE after the Final Four and when every coach is recruiting out there saying that..... IT HURTS RECRUITING.  So his argument was that the Final Four at THAT TIME in a young coach's career at a school that hadn't tasted success in decades hurt recruiting because so much success had come to MU and Crean, the conventional wisdom was that he was gone.  That hurts recruiting and was expedited by the Final Four appearance.  Far different then what you guys are stating his argument was.  FAR DIFFERENT.

[Nukem2]

I agree with Chicos.  84's argument is not out in left field.  As it was, rumor's of TC's imminent departure were rampant every spring.  Other than the recruitment of the 3 Amigos (with the promise of the BE) and LH, I would say that those rumors did impact MU's recruting.  Had TC stayed and kept Ty Taylor and Mbakwe, TC may have been able to turn that corner.  Obviously we'll never know now.   

[Hards Alumni]

LH was a 3 star, 95% sure on that.

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

Total BS. What you're actually saying is that Crean's repeated and very public dalliances with other schools hurt his recruiting. Of course, the reality is it was his personality that hurt him.

How did Georgia Tech land Shumpert? Their coach made a recent Final Four and he has been rumored to be on his way out the door (fired) for a couple years. But he beat us out. How does that work?

It wasn't the Final Four appearance.

If he hadn't openly suggested Crean start adopting recruits to avoid burning scholarship, the entire idea would be the most illogical thing SJS1 has ever said on either board.

[MUViking]

LH was a 3 star, 95% sure on that.

If you're referring to Lazar, he was generally perceived to be a 4-star recruit.

http://scouthoops.scout.com/a.z?s=75&p=8&c=1&nid=1748266

http://basketballrecruiting.rivals.com/viewprospect.asp?Sport=2&pr_key=39578

[muarmy81]

Total BS. What you're actually saying is that Crean's repeated and very public dalliances with other schools hurt his recruiting. Of course, the reality is it was his personality that hurt him.

How did Georgia Tech land Shumpert? Their coach made a recent Final Four and he has been rumored to be on his way out the door (fired) for a couple years. But he beat us out. How does that work?

It wasn't the Final Four appearance.

If he hadn't openly suggested Crean start adopting recruits to avoid burning scholarship, the entire idea would be the most illogical thing SJS1 has ever said on either board.

Wow, excellent example

[Nukem2]

Total BS. What you're actually saying is that Crean's repeated and very public dalliances with other schools hurt his recruiting. Of course, the reality is it was his personality that hurt him.

How did Georgia Tech land Shumpert? Their coach made a recent Final Four and he has been rumored to be on his way out the door (fired) for a couple years. But he beat us out. How does that work?

It wasn't the Final Four appearance.

If he hadn't openly suggested Crean start adopting recruits to avoid burning scholarship, the entire idea would be the most illogical thing SJS1 has ever said on either board.

Paul Hewitt was never on one of those "hot seats" per the media gurus until this spring.  The signing of Derrick Favors deterred that.  Shumpert simply wanted to be in a large warm weather city in the ACC.  BTW, TC followed that up by signing Tyshawn Taylor who is as good as Shumpert in my estimation and may be better down the road.

[Hards Alumni]

If you're referring to Lazar, he was generally perceived to be a 4-star recruit.

http://scouthoops.scout.com/a.z?s=75&p=8&c=1&nid=1748266

http://basketballrecruiting.rivals.com/viewprospect.asp?Sport=2&pr_key=39578

well egg in my face.

funny that they list him as a SG

[Marquette84]

Wow, excellent example

Yes, a perfect example..

Georgia Tech made the final four in 2004.

In 2004 Hewitt was rumored to be leaving for St. Johns:
http://www.nydailynews.com/archives/sports/2004/03/19/2004-03-19_storm_rumors_for_calipari__h.html

And another from 2005 it was the Knicks in the NBA:
http://community.msgnetwork.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/55310655/m/14010927

In 2006 it was Oklahoma;
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/sioncampus/04/04/college/index.html

Need I point out that Georgia Tech recruiting suffered in 2004-2006 as compared to 2002.  

It took Hewitt years to downplay the rumors, just as it took Crean years to downplay rumors and land players like James, McNeal, Matthews, Hayward, Mbakwe, Taylor, Williams, etc.

[MR.HAYWARD]

please do not get Riley started on possibly the most retarded logic ever defending the horific recruiting over the last 4 years of tom Cream.  there is simply no logic to it first he cant recruit becuase of it and per his last post now apparently he could.  Unfortunately he only named 7 players and failed to mention the other 6 players on the roster that were largely non D1 talent.  so he could recruit or he could not was the final 4 and Be holding him down or was it not.  Please Riley when you enter junior high please take a logic class.  sorry if i hurt your feelings maybe Joanie will give you cookies and milk.  oh and by the way the "rumors" may not have hampered your father if your logic is true if he was not sniffing around evey job in the country when not renegotiating his contract.   

[ChicosBailBonds]

Total BS. What you're actually saying is that Crean's repeated and very public dalliances with other schools hurt his recruiting. Of course, the reality is it was his personality that hurt him.

How did Georgia Tech land Shumpert? Their coach made a recent Final Four and he has been rumored to be on his way out the door (fired) for a couple years. But he beat us out. How does that work?

It wasn't the Final Four appearance.

If he hadn't openly suggested Crean start adopting recruits to avoid burning scholarship, the entire idea would be the most illogical thing SJS1 has ever said on either board.

Rumored to be fired and rumored to leave on their own are two completely different things.  There are a lot of coaches on the "hot seat" that never actually are.  Hewitt got Shumpert for many reasons....good for him.   

All one has to do was look at MU's previous 20 years with ZERO coaches lasting more than 5 years to know the conventional wisdom stating he was going to leave was probably accurate.  If anything, him staying for 9 years was as big a shock as anything at MU in many a decade.

Majerus = 3 years
Dukiet = 3 years
O'Neill = 5 years
Deane = 5 years
Crean = Final Four in year 4.....safe to say that people thought he was going to leave based on what had happened to the previous 4 coaches


I don't want to put words into MU84's mouth, but I'm guessing his argument would be that if Crean had gone to a Final Four in say year 7 or 8, it would effect recruiting differently then happening so fast.  Again, I'm just guessing that would be his argument.  Nevertheless, until MU can get a coach to STAY at MU for the longhaul, those rumors of a guy jumping will be prevelent....add a lot of success and the rumors just get exaggerated that much more.


PS  Deane entertained offers of leaving in year 3 and 4.  So did Crean.  So did KO.  Rick up and left.   You're kidding yourself if you don't think they all don't do it.

[ChicosBailBonds]

translation: boo hoo, someone made fun o fmy on the internets.

Hayward should be given another "vacation" from the board like he has in times past.

[ErickJD08]

Is anyone else thinking that Crean wouldn't have to downplay leaving if they were not true.  If Crean puts his feelers out every year or doing something that is hurting the team, he is not a good recruiter.  Plus, I love the list of players recruited by Crean have about half from one year and half in another school.  

I don't care what anyone says, Tom Crean was not a good recruiter.  Indiana or not, we had a MASSIVE hole at the 5 spot that he did not address in 2006.  TM was not the answer.  I know there are people on this board that think that he is the second coming of God knows what, but he wasn't.  TT or Nick Williams were not the answer for our future need of a solid PG.  Acker is a backup.  We all know that.  After the trio, recruiting one player of significant talent over 2 years is VERY poor.  I pop on this board and people talk about some of the great coaches in this league but its no mystery.  You need players to win.  Those coaches get about 2 or 3 players EVERY YEAR that have great talent or huge upside.  Crean got three winners one year, one the next, and THAT'S IT.  I will credit Crean with being able to assess talent but he had ZERO CLUE about addressing team needs.

[Lennys Tap]

Rumored to be fired and rumored to leave on their own are two completely different things.  There are a lot of coaches on the "hot seat" that never actually are.  Hewitt got Shumpert for many reasons....good for him.   

All one has to do was look at MU's previous 20 years with ZERO coaches lasting more than 5 years to know the conventional wisdom stating he was going to leave was probably accurate.  If anything, him staying for 9 years was as big a shock as anything at MU in many a decade.

Majerus = 3 years
Dukiet = 3 years
O'Neill = 5 years
Deane = 5 years
Crean = Final Four in year 4.....safe to say that people thought he was going to leave based on what had happened to the previous 4 coaches


I don't want to put words into MU84's mouth, but I'm guessing his argument would be that if Crean had gone to a Final Four in say year 7 or 8, it would effect recruiting differently then happening so fast.  Again, I'm just guessing that would be his argument.  Nevertheless, until MU can get a coach to STAY at MU for the longhaul, those rumors of a guy jumping will be prevelent....add a lot of success and the rumors just get exaggerated that much more.


PS  Deane entertained offers of leaving in year 3 and 4.  So did Crean.  So did KO.  Rick up and left.   You're kidding yourself if you don't think they all don't do it

It's "safe to say that people thought he was going to leave based on what happened to the previous 4 coaches"? Rick left because he couldn't cut it as a head coach, Dukiet and Deane were canned and KO made the first of several dubious decisions on the road to becoming a career assistant. How does any of this morph logically into an arguement that successful coaches  jumping ship had become the norm at MU?

[Mayor McCheese]

please do not get Riley started on possibly the most retarded logic ever defending the horific recruiting over the last 4 years of tom Cream.  there is simply no logic to it first he cant recruit becuase of it and per his last post now apparently he could.  Unfortunately he only named 7 players and failed to mention the other 6 players on the roster that were largely non D1 talent.  so he could recruit or he could not was the final 4 and Be holding him down or was it not.  Please Riley when you enter junior high please take a logic class.  sorry if i hurt your feelings maybe Joanie will give you cookies and milk.  oh and by the way the "rumors" may not have hampered your father if your logic is true if he was not sniffing around evey job in the country when not renegotiating his contract.   

Holy Crap, can someone translate this for me?

Why does Mr. Hayward's rants sound like an old-school WWF interview with the pathetic taunts and attacks?  I just find it odd that he attacks someone on this board's education, when he is BY FAR the hardest to read, and not due to intellect.  Mr. Hayward, are you a student of MU...wait, I don't want to know that answer for the alum's sake.

Honestly, we are comparing one class from Buzz (who hasn't played a game in a MU jersey) to Tom Crean's classes, which brought us a FF and success in the BE, something that 10-15 years ago we didn't dream of.

October can't come soon enough.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Lenny, Deane tried to jump ship BEFORE he was fired.  KO did jump ship.  Rick DID jump ship.  Crean Did jump ship.

4 of the 5 I mentioned tried or did jump ship before year 5.  Only Dukiet didn't.