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Next up: A long offseason

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Hards Alumni

Quote from: mu_hilltopper on May 05, 2009, 08:19:24 AM
See, that's just wrong.  It installs a royal class of people who have their tickets by birthright.  Eventually, there's no hope for anyone else, as more and more accounts are passed down forever.

I can't find the rule online, but I'm pretty sure they have a rule (now) that prohibits passing them down.  I believe the rule is broken by request, which I think is unfair.


sounds like sitting in line for Packer tickets... when the people with tickets can still pass down their season tickets... its a terrible system, but rewards loyalty for watching the 'lost years'.

Henry Sugar

Forget right and wrong.

In order to maximize profits, shouldn't Marquette eliminate any hereditary point system?

Just thinking out loud here, but allowing people to transfer tickets to children/etc decreases the incentive for those children to donate because the emphasis is placed on longevity.  Of course, the better seats require a donation per seat anyways, so MU is getting their money once people already possess the seats.  But Marquette would probably get more money if folks had to start fresh and make their own donations to get to the good seats.
A warrior is an empowered and compassionate protector of others.

mu_hilltopper

Quote from: reinko on May 05, 2009, 08:30:26 AM
Well, by your argument wouldn't the whole point system be a royal class onto itself?  I love Marquette, worked hard when I was there, but because of my job in the non-profit sector (which I chose, and yes, I could try to find my more lucrative work), I can not afford to these kinds of donations. 

But Marquette, and every other D-1 institution values the dollar above all when it comes to tickets, and I am not saying they shouldn't.  MU puts out a fantastic product, and if that means, keeping this system as is, go right ahead.  I will never make the kind of money that will allow me access to these kinds of tickets anyway  :P.


True, donations allow you to jump the line.  But the "seniority" system should be considered fair.  You get points for .. simply buying seats every year. -- Now, I do not know what the mix is for the high-level people, if most of them are there because they are 30+ year ticket holders, or they gave a lot, or a mixture of the two.

So sure, money makes a difference.  But money makes a difference with EVERYTHING.  Your choice of a lower paying career has ramifications far beyond where you sit at MU games .. your home, your car, etc.

GooooMarquette

Quote from: Henry Sugar on May 05, 2009, 08:49:03 AM
Forget right and wrong.

In order to maximize profits, shouldn't Marquette eliminate any hereditary point system?

Just thinking out loud here, but allowing people to transfer tickets to children/etc decreases the incentive for those children to donate because the emphasis is placed on longevity.  Of course, the better seats require a donation per seat anyways, so MU is getting their money once people already possess the seats.  But Marquette would probably get more money if folks had to start fresh and make their own donations to get to the good seats.

+1  It would make more money for MU (the real goal here), and it would require everybody to sink or swim on his/her own.

Brewtown Andy

Quote from: mu_hilltopper on May 04, 2009, 10:35:10 AM
Looks like the cheapest ticket is $40/seat.  $80/pt, non-depreciating.  Not a bad idea!

Plus it'll make up for the fact that as a university employee, I don't have to pay the personal seat license/mandatory donation.
Twitter - @brewtownandy
Anonymous Eagle

DoubleMU0609

If my wife and I each have 2 degrees from MU do we start out with 30 points before any donations or am I stuck with just my degrees?

mu_hilltopper

You add in your spouse's degrees, yep.  10+10+5+5 = 30.  That jumps you up over 800 people (of 2800), maybe enough to get you in the lower bowl.


bilsu

Marquette tickets was a birthright until they decided to base it on donations. The point system was a compromise to recognize past loyalty. My points can only be passed on to my wife. The point system is also important to keep season tickets holders from dropping their tickets when it looks like the team is not going to be any good. Once you have several years in, you do not want to drop your tickets and lose your points.  Throw away the points given each year and some ticket holders will dropped their tickets and save their money for a good team and then make a big donation.  It bothers me when I see empty seats around me for the lesser games on the schedule. I go to all of the games and I live in Sheboygan. I will be in the stands irregardless of how good we are or how good our opponent is. That loyalty or obsession is not shared by a lot of people who get good seats because they have money.

MUUWUWM

Amen brother bilsu...I agree.

Brewtown Andy

Quote from: bilsu on May 05, 2009, 06:46:20 PM
Marquette tickets was a birthright until they decided to base it on donations. The point system was a compromise to recognize past loyalty. My points can only be passed on to my wife. The point system is also important to keep season tickets holders from dropping their tickets when it looks like the team is not going to be any good. Once you have several years in, you do not want to drop your tickets and lose your points.  Throw away the points given each year and some ticket holders will dropped their tickets and save their money for a good team and then make a big donation.  It bothers me when I see empty seats around me for the lesser games on the schedule. I go to all of the games and I live in Sheboygan. I will be in the stands irregardless of how good we are or how good our opponent is. That loyalty or obsession is not shared by a lot of people who get good seats because they have money.

The two seats next to mine (218 row X) were empty for EVERY game on the 07-08 schedule, and every game on the 08-09 schedule up until the Syracuse game.  Then there were people in them.  After the first couple of media timeouts, I asked how they got their tickets, since there hadn't been anyone there for the last 35+ games.  The answer I got was that these are their season tickets and they don't make the 2 hour trip for every game.

?-(
Twitter - @brewtownandy
Anonymous Eagle

jaybilaswho?

I am sorry if the answer is in the trail above, but i didnt see it.

This will be my second season as a season ticket holder and my first experience with reseating. We have 4 seats in our group of ticket holders- all alumni. do we get alumni points per each seat or is it just based on the person whose name the tickets are under?
"A team should be an extension of a coach's personality. My teams are arrogant and obnoxious." Al McGuire

mu_hilltopper

It's based on you and your spouse only.  If you share the other 2 tickets with two other Alums, that makes no difference.  (Although that would be cool if you could somehow pool points.)

GooooMarquette

I don't disagree with Bilsu's notion that people need to be rewarded for their loyalty to the program.  What bugs me is when some get rewarded for their parents' (or perhaps even grandparents') loyalty.  Not only does that perpetuate the notion that MU basketball is some closed club that you'll never get in if your parents weren't members, but it creates a disincentive for people who have so many points that they don't need to donate.

We need a balance -- where long-time fans are rewarded for their loyalty, but the system still creates proper incentives for raising the much-needed funds to continue to compete in the Big East.  I think the current system does a pretty good job of striking that balance -- as long as it no longer allows transfers of points from parents to children via some unwritten exception to the rules.

As for the comments about empty seats for the "lesser" games -- I share that concern, but we need to recognize that not everybody is lucky enough to be able to make it to every game.  I live 4 1/2 hours from Milwaukee (each way), and can not possibly make it to every game.  I typically get to most of the weekend games (unless winter weather would make the drive unsafe), but am fortunate if I can make it to more than one or two weeknight games.  On average, that gets me to about 10 or so out of 18 home games.  If you didn't know the story, you might consider me a "bad" fan who simply bought my way into the system.  In reality, I am a die-hard, long-time ticket holder (15 years) who owes his seat location partially to longevity and partially to donations.  And my streak would be far longer than 15 years, except that I couldn't justify keeping the tickets during the few years when I lived in Tennessee and then Virginia in the early 90s.  Not everybody who fails to make all the games, or makes donations to get better seats, is a bad fan....

Sir Lawrence

Quote from: mu_hilltopper on May 06, 2009, 09:15:58 AM
It's based on you and your spouse only.  If you share the other 2 tickets with two other Alums, that makes no difference.  (Although that would be cool if you could somehow pool points.)

Well you can't pool the points, but there are ways to make efficient use of donations.  For example, I "manage" three different sets of season tickets.  With one set my business partner, who is ten years younger than I am, gives me money to donate to the Blue & Gold Fund, thereby maximizing the point total when added to my donations.  He then uses those seats.  I then turn around and use his points, (he and his spouse are both alums), for upper bowl seats that together we use as "reserve" seats for the premium games, or as give aways to younger kids, etc.  Obviously you have to trust your friends, and eventually I'll start giving him my donations to use in his name, as I approach senility.....
Ludum habemus.

pillardean

For all the talk about they heirarchy of season tickets, MU does allow for the newcomer to get seats, albeit not great seats.  But like in the workplace, the point system does allow for long-term upward mobility. 

As a recent graduate with only 10 points, I am looking forward to just getting tickets, probably in the upper bowl somewhere.  That isn't going to bother me one bit, what else is there to look forward to on an early December Tuesday than seeing the new team play Coppin State (or some other team)?!

In time, the point system does allow you to get into the bottom bowl and pretty solid seats; however, the elite seats, the way that I see it with the points system right now being some have over 1,049, is damn near impossible to reach for the everday die-hard fan without money, and that's ok with me.  I forget who said it early, "forget right and wrong" but I agree.  Season tickets, while not only providing exciting entertainment to us, is primarily an effort to raise money for MU, or as I see it, an opportunity to give back to the University that helped in my own growing whether directly or indirectly with the people I have learned to know. 

I would like to see some changes to the point system, however. One for instance would be receiving points for going to other less popular MU events.  I noticed that Women's BBall season tickets gives you points, but what about MU Soccer, Women's VBALL or track?  I do not know if you receive points for those events.  A way to help the average fan and attendance at those Big East games would be to have point incentives on ATTENDANCE to those events...say 1 point for every 10 attended.  Maybe they have that and I just missed it, but working Concessions at the AL and at Valley Fields my last 2 1/2 years at MU I did not see many people at those games except for students and family.

The idea may not be a popular one for the old-guard but it could incite more attendance to those events and also allow for those Milwaukee area without legacies to rise up while also seeing what MU offers besides Men's Basketball. 

Marquette University, Spring '08

mu_hilltopper

Cosign on attendance points.  There's even some verbage on the Ticketmaster site about "Attendance points" or whatever .. MU doesn't use it that function on TM, but obviously other organizations do.

Since all tickets are bar-coded, the possibility does exist to determine exactly who goes to what game.

Rewarding folks for attending games .. I'd say reward them at .1 point per game for all non-conference games .. so you could earn about 1 point per year.    I understand if you live out of town .. but it IS a choice to buy tickets, and it IS a choice to go to games.  Giving out .1ppg for cupcakes is a reward for a different kind of loyalty. -- Clearly, when comparing two ticket holders, holding everything else constant, but one goes to 22 games, the other goes to 10, who "should" have (marginally) better seats?

Skatastrophy

Quote from: mu_hilltopper on May 06, 2009, 11:15:43 AM
Rewarding folks for attending games .. I'd say reward them at .1 point per game for all non-conference games .. so you could earn about 1 point per year.    I understand if you live out of town .. but it IS a choice to buy tickets, and it IS a choice to go to games.  Giving out .1ppg for cupcakes is a reward for a different kind of loyalty. -- Clearly, when comparing two ticket holders, holding everything else constant, but one goes to 22 games, the other goes to 10, who "should" have (marginally) better seats?

Attending a game isn't always going to make the university any money.  Now if I were rewarded points for how many beers and brats I purchase at the games they would know my true commitment to the team.  That stuff isn't cheap!

Golden Avalanche

Quote from: mu_hilltopper on May 06, 2009, 11:15:43 AM
Cosign on attendance points.  There's even some verbage on the Ticketmaster site about "Attendance points" or whatever .. MU doesn't use it that function on TM, but obviously other organizations do.

Since all tickets are bar-coded, the possibility does exist to determine exactly who goes to what game.

Rewarding folks for attending games .. I'd say reward them at .1 point per game for all non-conference games .. so you could earn about 1 point per year.    I understand if you live out of town .. but it IS a choice to buy tickets, and it IS a choice to go to games.  Giving out .1ppg for cupcakes is a reward for a different kind of loyalty. -- Clearly, when comparing two ticket holders, holding everything else constant, but one goes to 22 games, the other goes to 10, who "should" have (marginally) better seats?

We should then institute a scale for distance traveled to attend the game. Surely my travel from Jersey for 5 games a year is more impressive then someone traveling from Fond du Lac, Manitowoc, or even Naperville, Illinois for 10 games a year. Who will start the petition?  ;)

GooooMarquette

Quote from: mu_hilltopper on May 06, 2009, 11:15:43 AMRewarding folks for attending games .. I'd say reward them at .1 point per game for all non-conference games .. so you could earn about 1 point per year.    I understand if you live out of town .. but it IS a choice to buy tickets, and it IS a choice to go to games. 

Yes, and it IS a choice as to whether or not you donate.  As between attending games (when you've already bought tix) and donating money, the university is actually better off if you do the latter....

If we're talking about giving out "loyalty" points, why not award points based on distance driven to attend games?  I would argue that it takes just as much (or more) loyalty for me to drive 9 hours round trip to see MU play UConn than it takes for someone in Wauwatosa to drive 30 minutes round trip to watch them play Texas Southern.

Nukem2

Quote from: bilsu on May 05, 2009, 06:46:20 PM
Marquette tickets was a birthright until they decided to base it on donations. The point system was a compromise to recognize past loyalty. My points can only be passed on to my wife. The point system is also important to keep season tickets holders from dropping their tickets when it looks like the team is not going to be any good. Once you have several years in, you do not want to drop your tickets and lose your points.  Throw away the points given each year and some ticket holders will dropped their tickets and save their money for a good team and then make a big donation.  It bothers me when I see empty seats around me for the lesser games on the schedule. I go to all of the games and I live in Sheboygan. I will be in the stands irregardless of how good we are or how good our opponent is. That loyalty or obsession is not shared by a lot of people who get good seats because they have money.
Bilsu, I'm with you.  I try to attend every game.  What burns me is that I did not have season tickets for a few years due to living out of the area for job reasons.  So I have 18 years of being a season ticket holder that do not count along with my current number of consecutive years.  I tried to get the B&G people to acquiesce, but they said the system could not accomodate that.  Guess they never heard of file maintenance.

mu_hilltopper

Bah.  You guys and your "I drive/fly far to attend games, so I'm a big fan and should get rewarded too." 

Two can play at that game. 

I have two kids, and my wife and I have to arrange a babysitter weeks in advance, get them ready for said baby sitter, put up with the bawling and tantrums when we leave, pay about $30 each game for the sitter, on top of dropping $60 to see Coppin State.  THAT MEANS WE ARE HUGE FANS!  Jesus, our ordeal is far more difficult than someone lounging on a plane for a few hours!!! :P

Everyone makes choices.  To buy tickets, to attend, to have kids, to live far away from the holy land (Mecca, err, the Bradley Center).   (At least I didn't make the mistake of marrying a non-MU grad.  :D)

The end of the equation is .. how valuable are you to MU?  Money is one measurement.  The other is longevity in buying tickets.  This third one is whether or not you show up and actually support the team.  It doesn't matter to the team (or concession stands*) whether you arrived at the BC after a 20 hour mule ride, or a 5 minute drive.  Are you in your seat, nor not?


* IIRC, MU doesn't get a cut of the concessions.   No one can minimize actually supporting the team by cheering them on in person, though.  In the end, what's the point of having a game unless people are there to watch? 

GooooMarquette

No disagreement Hilltopper.  If you'll see from my posts, I have never disputed that MU needs to use $$ as a primary part of its points system.  I only used the example of my long drive as a measure of "loyalty" after another poster suggested that season ticket holders who miss non-conference games should miss out on additional "loyalty" points.  My response was made to show how absurd that idea is.

Oh, and by the way -- I have two kids too, and for years have had to work out weekend-long babysitters when we go to games.  (Far more difficult to arrange, and more expensive than $30.)  Fortunately, the older one is just now old enough to stay home alone, and the younger one has started coming to games with us....

mu_hilltopper

As I said, I like the idea of attendance points.  It's not absurd in the least.

In the end, sorry, but holding everything else constant, a fan that goes to all the games is more valuable to the program than the same fan who goes to one fourth.  And by the same token, a fan that drives 10 hours to put his butt in a seat is no more valuable than the same fan who drives 10 minutes. 

I am arguing that that value could be rewarded -- (and at a very low level, 1 freaking point per year.   If those of you who only go to some/big games want to keep up, well fine, it'll cost you $100 smackers to keep up with the folks who attend all the games.)

It's a pretty simple argument to make, and consistent with the general rule .. people who buy tickets for more years get better seats .. people who go to more games should have the opportunity to have better seats.  Why let (relatively better) seats go unused, when there are others who would gladly move up and use them?

Now, you might argue that traveling farther proves you're more loyal.  Well, super.  My point was to say that there are tons of mitigating factors that people could claim they are the more loyal fan .. babysitters, 2nd-3rd shift workers, car troubles, poverty, sickness, # of gold shirts in their closet, etc.

.. but in the end, the one goal that can be universally applied and measured is the finish line of everyone's journey: attending the game.

Skatastrophy

Quote from: mu_hilltopper on May 06, 2009, 02:56:50 PM
# of gold shirts in their closet,

Since you brought it up:

Point deductions for failing to wear gold to a game.

Point deductions if you're under the (completely arbitrary) age of 50 and you're wearing a yellow sweater-vest.

GooooMarquette

#49
Quote from: mu_hilltopper on May 06, 2009, 02:56:50 PM
As I said, I like the idea of attendance points.  It's not absurd in the least.

In the end, sorry, but holding everything else constant, a fan that goes to all the games is more valuable to the program than the same fan who goes to one fourth.  And by the same token, a fan that drives 10 hours to put his butt in a seat is no more valuable than the same fan who drives 10 minutes. 

I am arguing that that value could be rewarded -- (and at a very low level, 1 freaking point per year.   If those of you who only go to some/big games want to keep up, well fine, it'll cost you $100 smackers to keep up with the folks who attend all the games.)

It's a pretty simple argument to make, and consistent with the general rule .. people who buy tickets for more years get better seats .. people who go to more games should have the opportunity to have better seats.  Why let (relatively better) seats go unused, when there are others who would gladly move up and use them?

Now, you might argue that traveling farther proves you're more loyal.  Well, super.  My point was to say that there are tons of mitigating factors that people could claim they are the more loyal fan .. babysitters, 2nd-3rd shift workers, car troubles, poverty, sickness, # of gold shirts in their closet, etc.

.. but in the end, the one goal that can be universally applied and measured is the finish line of everyone's journey: attending the game.


It is absurd...and self-serving.  Sorry, but the truth is the truth.

How exactly is having your butt in the seat for the game against Texas Southern "more valuable" to the team than my paid-for but occasionally empty seat?  PLEASE tell me you aren't deluded into thinking it makes any difference in the outcome....

Get back to me and tell me how fair your proosal is when you get transferred to Detroit, and you bust your a$$ to keep coming to as many MU games as you possibly can...only to be told by MU that you're being sent to the upper bowl because you missed the Texas Southern game becuase it was on a Tuesday night and you had an 8:00 am meeting back in Detroit the next morning.  I'm sure you'll be thrilled when someone at MU tells you "well, you can catch up with the people who passed you up if you'll just cut us a check for another $100."

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