Fran has weighed in

[ChicosBailBonds]

BadgerFran has weighed in.....hold the phones


"It's just a little amazing how radically the recruiting philosophy has changed at Marquette since the days of Kevin O'Neill, and even somewhat since Crean's departure.  If you described the new Marquette recruits not by name and without saying what school they had committed to, but by provenance (jucos, some with past qualification issues; foreign players attending notorious diploma mills with odd financial structures whose enrollments almost exactly match the size of their basketball teams; American players who have jumped from high school to high school to "prep" school; high school players struggling to qualify) you'd think you were hearing about Memphis or Connecticut or some other program that everyone in the country disdains but also knows the NCAA doesn't have the gumption to really do anything about.  Even the most rabid MU partisans must see that.  Even  housepet beat reporters must see that.

There are certain to be good kids in this group of MU commitments -- but the overall aroma of the recruiting approach is, to put it mildly, a little off.   It seems like Marquette has made a judgment that its path to competitiveness needs to move in a very different direction from conventional recruiting.  The days of recruiting solid students from midwest high schools -- think McNeal, Matthews, James, Diener, Novak -- appear to be over. 

Or maybe Buzz has nobly created an island of lost toys -- a place where warm-weather kids who have been misunderstood or disadvantaged or lost in the conventional academic system (and who happen to be able to go to their left and stroke the j) can thrive in the tender arms of a mid-sized, basketball mad religious college in a cold northern city.  Strangers in a strange land, to be sure, but maybe it will work.  I'm not being entirely sarcastic.  Buzz comes from a sort of "wild west" basketball background that's all about jucos and transfers and getting a kid in even if by the skin of his teeth, and figuring the kid would be better off for the opportunity.  Some will be.

I'm sure it won't matter to the majority of the MU basketball fanbase how it looks to the rest of the world as long as Buzz achieves Memphis or UConn like results.  It never does, unfortunately, to any fanbase.  And he might; coaching goes a long way in college hoops, but talent goes even further. 

But if he doesn't, and if he maintains this recruiting approach, it will get interesting.  Surely some powerful people at MU still tend to have a more traditional view as to what the University stands for.  Especially if the wins don't come, or at least enough of them.

It's a heck of a gamble and I hope it works out for my long suffering MU friends.  (That's a topic for another day; MU has had a perfectly respectable basketball program in terms of results for the last twenty years, but their burden is that they can't forget the 70s, which will never come back.  The suffering is self-imposed.)"

[sarcastro]

BadgerFran has weighed in.....hold the phones


  If you described the new Marquette recruits not by name and without saying what school they had committed to, but by provenance (jucos, some with past qualification issues; foreign players attending notorious diploma mills with odd financial structures whose enrollments almost exactly match the size of their basketball teams; American players who have jumped from high school to high school to "prep" school; high school players struggling to qualify)

He's right! If you ignore the individual stories and boil everything down to the most negative stereotypes....

[muarmy81]

Don't Hate the Player...hate the game!  

While questions will be asked I'll reserve judgement until something happens. (ie devendorf incident, somebody doesn't graduate, etc)  Until then, who am I to judge?  I do sense some defensiveness developing with our furry rodent fans but that's to be expected.  I'm guessing we'll be hearing a lot of these types of excuses..."you guys only beat us cuz you've got "dirty" kids."


I also enjoyed the "not recruiting Midwest kids" comment.  Why is that so terrible?  We continue to recruit the Midwest but let's face it...just because we don't follow the UW recipe for recruits doesn't necessarily mean it's so wrong.  Much of the best talent doesnt' reside in the Midwest and the little that does wants to play for the Big 10.

[Ready2Fly]

Chicos, haven't you said a lot of similar things when it came to JUCO's and Stoneridge?  Maybe not the wording, but definitely the tone was there.

[MarquetteDano]

Strangely, that was a relatively unbiased post by Fran.  It wasn't seething like some of his posts.  Maybe I am just getting more cynical as I age, so his posts seem toned down now.

I cannot disagree with his post in total.  He didn't make direct accusations.  He just said something doesn't "smell" right (I believe that was how he said it).  I am inclined to agree.  It also appears strange that we have so many JUCO's and prep schoolers.  However, if they graduate, are not arrested, and are not cancers to the team, then I cannot complain.

I have my concerns.  Hopefully, they are just that.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Chicos, haven't you said a lot of similar things when it came to JUCO's and Stoneridge?  Maybe not the wording, but definitely the tone was there.

Yup...that's why I'm considering hanging myself.   

[Hards Alumni]

Or maybe Buzz has nobly created an island of lost toys -- a place where warm-weather kids who have been misunderstood or disadvantaged or lost in the conventional academic system (and who happen to be able to go to their left and stroke the j) can thrive in the tender arms of a mid-sized, basketball mad religious college in a cold northern city.  Strangers in a strange land, to be sure, but maybe it will work.  I'm not being entirely sarcastic.  Buzz comes from a sort of "wild west" basketball background that's all about jucos and transfers and getting a kid in even if by the skin of his teeth, and figuring the kid would be better off for the opportunity.  Some will be.

oh, you mean like Al McGuire used to do?

Fran is so far off base.  How did he expect us to compete in the BE with no seniors or juniors?  Should MU just use all of its scholarships on Freshman and then graduate all 7-10 them in 4 years and start over?  What a damn fool.  JUCO players are used to fill the empty spaces that happened because of trasnfers and decommits when Crean was around/left.

Welcome to college basketball Fran, you don't get it.

[Ready2Fly]

Yup...that's why I'm considering hanging myself.   

Then why did you go over there under the name MUwarrior74 and say things like, "What is one supposed to do?  I have just as many concerns over Milwaukee Public Schools, if not more concerns.  If they're certified by the NCAA then they're certified by the NCAA," in response to the question, "Do you really not have any concerns regarding Stoneridge?"

It's drastically different from what you've been posting here.

[Wareagle]

This coming from the glass house that gave scholarships to Marcettus McGee and Boo Wade, had others academically ineligible for a semester, and had another collecting drinking citations like they were Miley Cyrus tickets.

[bilsu]

The criticism is fair if they turn out to be bad citizen's or students. There is no evidence at this point to say that is the case. My guess is that the Badger team will continue to play slow down ball with less quick players. MU will play a more uptempo game with more athletic players. And guess what each team will have the same number of quality people and students.

[Dish]

I forgot who said it, or who I should give credit to on this (I think it was Navin), but until these kids do something bad (flunk classes, problems with the law, etc.), then they should be given every single benefit of the doubt. Nothing I've read suggests these are "bad" kids coming in. Because the "JUCO" term is hanging around their neck automatically makes these guys bad/poor kids? Give me a break.

When the season tips in November, and they have Marquette written across their chests, I don't care if they're from JUCO, Chicago, Senegal, or where ever. If they represent the university well off the court, and bust their butts on the court, they'll get my applause and support.

[Ready2Fly]

I forgot who said it, or who I should give credit to on this (I think it was Navin), but until these kids do something bad (flunk classes, problems with the law, etc.), then they should be given every single benefit of the doubt. Nothing I've read suggests these are "bad" kids coming in. Because the "JUCO" term is hanging around their neck automatically makes these guys bad/poor kids? Give me a break.

When the season tips in November, and they have Marquette written across their chests, I don't care if they're from JUCO, Chicago, Senegal, or where ever. If they represent the university well off the court, and bust their butts on the court, they'll get my applause and support.

Very, very, very well said.  The implication that JUCO players are stupid and don't deserve a shot at MU gets under my skin too.

[muwarrior69]

Well, if they are all like Jimmy Butler then we have nothing to worry about.

[Blackhat]

I thought this was about Fran Frachilla.   I figured you'd be starting a thread about someone whose opinion actually somewhat matters.  

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Strangely, that was a relatively unbiased post by Fran.  It wasn't seething like some of his posts.  Maybe I am just getting more cynical as I age, so his posts seem toned down now.

I cannot disagree with his post in total.  He didn't make direct accusations.  He just said something doesn't "smell" right (I believe that was how he said it).  I am inclined to agree.  It also appears strange that we have so many JUCO's and prep schoolers.  However, if they graduate, are not arrested, and are not cancers to the team, then I cannot complain.

I have my concerns.  Hopefully, they are just that.

I agree, I mean, I don't think he's entirely correct, but he's not really ripping MU, nor is he saying Buzz isn't going to get it done. I don't think he's being complementary, but his viewpoint is pretty reasonable.

I've seen much, much worse stuff from him.

[StillAWarrior]

Very, very, very well said.  The implication that JUCO players are stupid and don't deserve a shot at MU gets under my skin too.

I can only speak for myself, but I have never thought or implied that JUCO players are stupid.  I will also give these kids the benefit of the doubt and cheer for and support them like they were family.  But, we shouldn't kid ourselves.  Whether it's justified or not, people will view Marquette's basketball program differently if it continues to recruit heavily from JUCO and places like Stoneridge -- even if none of these kids ever has a problem.  Until I have reason to think otherwise, I'm going to assume that Buzz knows what he's doing and these are great kids who will represent Marquette well.  But, I'd be lying if I didn't say that I hope that this recruiting trend is an exception borne of necessity, and not the rule.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I can only speak for myself, but I have never thought or implied that JUCO players are stupid.  I will also give these kids the benefit of the doubt and cheer for and support them like they were family.  But, we shouldn't kid ourselves.  Whether it's justified or not, people will view Marquette's basketball program differently if it continues to recruit heavily from JUCO and places like Stoneridge -- even if none of these kids ever has a problem.  Until I have reason to think otherwise, I'm going to assume that Buzz knows what he's doing and these are great kids who will represent Marquette well.  But, I'd be lying if I didn't say that I hope that this recruiting trend is an exception borne of necessity, and not the rule.

+1 

[ATWizJr]

Sour grapes from someone who's team is looking less and less competitive with it's principal in-state rival.

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

Fran has hit the nail on the head...it's as if he's borrowing from what I've been saying for quite some time.

There has been a marked shift in philosophy here and, whether you like it or not, it's going to create a certain impression of what Marquette University is willing to do to field a winning basketball team.

[muball]

One day he states he only watchs UW and UWM and doesnt really care what goes on with MU and then he posts messages like in this thread. Guess he is mixed up between the ears or concerned on how Buzz is recovering from the Crean fiasco just a year ago.  

[Dish]

I stand by what I think, that the scarlet letter of JUCO is unfair, and should not paint a broad stroke over these kids.

It drives me nuts that some think Marquette is on some pedestal when it comes to this program. MU's greatest player of all time was a partial qualifier. He doesn't get crucified on this board for it. Zack McCall came from a prep school and obviously had his issues while here. Should Hayward automatically be grouped in with McCall? Not to air their dirty laundry, but Brandon Bell and Jarred Lovette had their issues while they were at MU. Neither was a JUCO.

MU's graduating 4 seniors and would be extremely young next season. Bringing in a couple of athletic kids, with a year or two of JUCO under their belt and who show no personal issues that are known, is fine by me. If MU makes it to the Sweet 16 next year, are some going to have a chip on their shoulder and not accept a NCAA run because Buckys is a JUCO?

Buzz is doing what he has to do right now, and doing what he knows best. I couldn't be more intrigued by this group of JUCO and non JUCO's coming in this season. The sky (and basement) is the limit here.  For those who didn't like the way Crean did things, give Buzz a chance to do things his way.

[Lennys Tap]

I love Fran feigning concern for the soul of the Marquette program. His fear has nothing to do with MU resembling Memphis or UCONN off the court despite his protestations to the contrary. He sees the handwriting on the wall from a basketball standpoint and isn't happy. Just a couple of years ago he was crowing that UW ruled the state and MU had better get used to it. Now that Marquette has beaten UW twice in a row and has a top rated recruiting class on the way, Fran has to move the discussion from the court to the classroom. Anyone who couldn't see this one coming is unfamiliar with Fran's modus operandi. He is the ultimate apologist for all things UW despite his graduation from lowly UWM.

[ChicosBailBonds]

He is the ultimate apologist for all things UW despite his graduation from lowly UWM.

He has a law degree from UW-Madison as well, plus a killer bow-tie collection.

[Boone]

And we should care about what this girl Fran thinks because...?

Really, who gives a crap?

[MUshrooms]

I don't see much wrong with this.  Pretty much telling it like it is.