Mbao Is Not A JUCO...

[Strokin 3s]

or maybe I'm just a douche.

HAHAHA, on this I think we can all agree.

[Lennys Tap]

I know a 6 year old that speaks 3 different languages. Being multi lingual in some countries and cultures is the norm. It is important that Mboe speaks and understands English ( not always one in the same ). Being multi lingual does not by itself indicate a preparedness for college.

Mbao is reportedly fluent in 4 languages including English. Fluent means speaking and understanding. He also has a wealth of life experiences to draw from - adapting and thriving in various cultures. There are young men currently playing DI basketball who can barely speak English (we've all witnessed the painful interviews) and who couldn't spell cat if you spotted them the c and the a. Mbao has already overcome his share of obstacles to get this far and is said to have an admirable work ethic. Worry about him if you must - based on what I've heard I'm not.

[mu-rara]

everyone piling on PRN... no surprises there... I believe what he was getting at was don't assume that we are as perfect as we seem to be... and I think it is a legitimate concern.

TCTB, I applaud your grandstanding (as well as everyone else's here) in your assumption that MU player athletes take hard classes, and public schooled kids take all easy classes like "PE".  Additionally, I applaud you for believing your own BS.  I have personally had 'student' athletes in a few of my classes (Merrit and ODB in one of my freshman requirement classes; Wade in my freshman english class; Merrit, ODB, and Ron Howard in my "Acting for Non-Majors" blow off class).

I can tell you that with the exception of Wade in English, the rest of them (and I had the opportunity to read the 'work' they did... I was going to include examples, but realized that I probably shouldn't) and it was not what I would consider 'college level' work.

Given that, and the fact that we are a private university and can get away with more academically since we don't have the full disclosure that public universities have... I think there is a chance that some things are kept hidden from everyone.

or maybe I'm just a douche.

MU graduates 100% because they provide academic support beyond what most institutions provide.  It started with McGuire promising that if you came to Marquette, you would leave with a degree. 

I am NOT saying that these kids have the same academic prowess that PRN has.  I am saying that Marquette puts a lot of resources into supporting these guys.

[Hards Alumni]

Mbao is reportedly fluent in 4 languages including English. Fluent means speaking and understanding. He also has a wealth of life experiences to draw from - adapting and thriving in various cultures. There are young men currently playing DI basketball who can barely speak English (we've all witnessed the painful interviews) and who couldn't spell cat if you spotted them the c and the a. Mbao has already overcome his share of obstacles to get this far and is said to have an admirable work ethic. Worry about him if you must - based on what I've heard I'm not.

you must know him really well!  What exactly were his grades like and did he have tutors, and what were his teachers grading habits?

Yeah, I thought not.

everyone on this board has blinders on.

[Hards Alumni]

MU graduates 100% because they provide academic support beyond what most institutions provide.  It started with McGuire promising that if you came to Marquette, you would leave with a degree. 

I am NOT saying that these kids have the same academic prowess that PRN has.  I am saying that Marquette puts a lot of resources into supporting these guys.

you're right!  I'm sure Crean never leaned on a teacher or had someone lean on a teacher to pass one of his players... impossible!

[GGGG]

everyone piling on PRN... no surprises there... I believe what he was getting at was don't assume that we are as perfect as we seem to be... and I think it is a legitimate concern.

TCTB, I applaud your grandstanding (as well as everyone else's here) in your assumption that MU player athletes take hard classes, and public schooled kids take all easy classes like "PE".  Additionally, I applaud you for believing your own BS.  I have personally had 'student' athletes in a few of my classes (Merrit and ODB in one of my freshman requirement classes; Wade in my freshman english class; Merrit, ODB, and Ron Howard in my "Acting for Non-Majors" blow off class).

I can tell you that with the exception of Wade in English, the rest of them (and I had the opportunity to read the 'work' they did... I was going to include examples, but realized that I probably shouldn't) and it was not what I would consider 'college level' work.

I have no doubt that one of the reasons that our graduation rate is 100% is because many of these guys are in relatively easy programs and because they are supported very well academically.  This is hardly unique to us or to public universities.  To me, you have to strike that balance.  Do we want to be Northwestern where they make few exceptions on their admissions policy for athletes?  Or do you want to have a BE quality basketball program? 

I don't think you can have both.  Neither Christian Laettner nor Bobby Hurley would have gotten into Duke if they weren't basketball players.

I think the key is that if you get them here that they earn a legitimate degree from MU.  If that degree is accredited, and it is accomplished without academic fraud, then it is legitimate in my eyes.  If it isn't up to the quality that we expect from an institution like MU...well...there is where the balance comes in.  And part of that means that MU needs to figure out how important basketball is in the grand scheme of things.  Because again, if we want our basketball players to be civil engineers, we better lower our on-court expectations right now.

[Lennys Tap]

you're right!  I'm sure Crean never leaned on a teacher or had someone lean on a teacher to pass one of his players... impossible!

I'm sure you have the goods on Crean, and as anyone with an ounce of integrity would do, you have taken the evidence to the proper authorities.


Yeah, I thought not.

[Hards Alumni]

I have no doubt that one of the reasons that our graduation rate is 100% is because many of these guys are in relatively easy programs and because they are supported very well academically.  This is hardly unique to us or to public universities.  To me, you have to strike that balance.  Do we want to be Northwestern where they make few exceptions on their admissions policy for athletes?  Or do you want to have a BE quality basketball program? 

I don't think you can have both.  Neither Christian Laettner nor Bobby Hurley would have gotten into Duke if they weren't basketball players.

I think the key is that if you get them here that they earn a legitimate degree from MU.  If that degree is accredited, and it is accomplished without academic fraud, then it is legitimate in my eyes.  If it isn't up to the quality that we expect from an institution like MU...well...there is where the balance comes in.  And part of that means that MU needs to figure out how important basketball is in the grand scheme of things.  Because again, if we want our basketball players to be civil engineers, we better lower our on-court expectations right now.

agreed, I am merely playing devil's advocate and trying to make people understand that the possibility is out there that everything isn't "hunky dorey".

[Hards Alumni]

I'm sure you have the goods on Crean, and as anyone with an ounce of integrity would do, you have taken the evidence to the proper authorities.


Yeah, I thought not.

Its ok, I didn't expect you to understand.

I am not here making accusations, instead I am trying to make people realize that the academic side of college basketball is gray at best... and our 100% graduation rate is somewhat suspect given the circumstances.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

agreed, I am merely playing devil's advocate and trying to make people understand that the possibility is out there that everything isn't "hunky dorey".

While I agree that you can/should be somewhat skeptical of a person or institution that is exceedingly successful at something, I think you can also look at MU's system and reasonably believe that the players are working hard in the classroom.

Are all of them Rhodes Scholars? Nope.

Do they have a TON of tutoring and get to take make-up exams do to their travel schedule? Yep.

Does that mean MU's head coach is leaning on teachers and MU's graduation rate isn't genuine? Nope.

[WellsstreetWanderer]

What are we talking about? These guys all came away from MU with degrees. Everybody who went to Marquette does not get a degree in Engineering or Literature
They lead productive lives and have a degree from a prestigious institution
Similiar degrees offered at Harvard or Berkely... probably more

[MarquetteDano]

Given that, and the fact that we are a private university and can get away with more academically since we don't have the full disclosure that public universities have... I think there is a chance that some things are kept hidden from everyone.
or maybe I'm just a douche.

Funny,  I just had this argument with a friend of mine regarding the private versus public universities.  The theory being that private univerisities can lower standards easier and get away with more.  I am not saying that private schools are not cheating (University of Miami, USC, and Syracuse come to mind) but it seems to me that public schools are much worse than the private schools.  If you just used felony arrests as a proxy, I don't think it would be even close.  There are more public schools than private, but if you ran the per capita numbers, I think public student-athletes seem to have a higher rate.

[Hards Alumni]

While I agree that you can/should be somewhat skeptical of a person or institution that is exceedingly successful at something, I think you can also look at MU's system and reasonably believe that the players are working hard in the classroom.

Are all of them Rhodes Scholars? Nope.

Do they have a TON of tutoring and get to take make-up exams do to their travel schedule? Yep.

Does that mean MU's head coach is leaning on teachers and MU's graduation rate isn't genuine? Nope.

right, and I am not leaning one way or another, nor was PRN... yet we are being basically crucified because we acknowledge the possibility given the facts.

[tower912]

A communications degree with a C average is still a degree.   It may not get you into grad school, but it still counts.   If some players achieve that only with extensive tutoring, they still achieve it.   

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

right, and I am not leaning one way or another, nor was PRN... yet we are being basically crucified because we acknowledge the possibility given the facts.

I think this falls into the "message boards aren't good for communicating" file.

I mean, your sarcastic comment about Crean definitely makes me think that you are leaning towards thinking "something is fishy". You may not have meant it that way, but that's the impression that I got.

As far PRN goes, he has a history of making bold remarks without providing reasonable proof, and so people jump on him a lot.

Example: Crean came up with "gold"? Is that factual? Where was that reported?

[muwarrior87]

I think this falls into the "message boards aren't good for communicating" file.

I mean, your sarcastic comment about Crean definitely makes me think that you are leaning towards thinking "something is fishy". You may not have meant it that way, but that's the impression that I got.

As far PRN goes, he has a history of making bold remarks without providing reasonable proof, and so people jump on him a lot.

Example: Crean came up with "gold"? Is that factual? Where was that reported?

+1. Even if playing devil's advocate, Hards and PRN are really making it sound like they believe whole heartedly that 'fishy' activity happens in regards to the academics of the athletes.

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

For the first time ever, I agree with you 100%.

That is because I'm dumb as a post.

[rocky_warrior]

PRN - no insults - unless you insult yourself...I guess 

[Hards Alumni]

+1. Even if playing devil's advocate, Hards and PRN are really making it sound like they believe whole heartedly that 'fishy' activity happens in regards to the academics of the athletes.

as stated, I only believe that there is the possibility, and it would seem that everyone else is blind to the possibility.

it should be a tiny bit 'fishy' to everyone... but I guess no one questions anything anymore.

by the way, the moon really is made of cheese.

[dennycrane]

Mbao is reportedly fluent in 4 languages including English. Fluent means speaking and understanding. He also has a wealth of life experiences to draw from - adapting and thriving in various cultures. There are young men currently playing DI basketball who can barely speak English (we've all witnessed the painful interviews) and who couldn't spell cat if you spotted them the c and the a. Mbao has already overcome his share of obstacles to get this far and is said to have an admirable work ethic. Worry about him if you must - based on what I've heard I'm not.

Source?

Maybe he is "fluent" in all languages. That still would not change my point.

[lurch91]

Its ok, I didn't expect you to understand.

I am not here making accusations, instead I am trying to make people realize that the academic side of college basketball is gray at best... and our 100% graduation rate is somewhat suspect given the circumstances.

Given WHAT circumstances????  Marquette's long history of NCAA sanctions and probation?  You've got to be kidding me. 

While Marquette has had a number of players leave without graduating (Wade and Rivers to name two), Marquette's never had any history of impropriety.

[Hards Alumni]

Given WHAT circumstances????  Marquette's long history of NCAA sanctions and probation?  You've got to be kidding me. 

While Marquette has had a number of players leave without graduating (Wade and Rivers to name two), Marquette's never had any history of impropriety.

typically I read the whole thread before making a comment... just sayin.

[Lennys Tap]

Its ok, I didn't expect you to understand.

I am not here making accusations, instead I am trying to make people realize that the academic side of college basketball is gray at best... and our 100% graduation rate is somewhat suspect given the circumstances.

I apologize if I misunderstood. I took your post to mean you had evidence TC had pressured teachers on the player's behalf. I agree that anything is "possible" but I don't what the "circumstances" are in the "our 100% graduation rate is somewhat suspect given the circumstances" statement.

I would be much more suspicious if there were other "red flags" -numerous "police blotter" incidents, inability to speak the king's english, etc. Maybe I'm myopic or a Pollyanna  but I don't see much of the "thug culture" evident at MU.

[Hards Alumni]

I apologize if I misunderstood. I took your post to mean you had evidence TC had pressured teachers on the player's behalf. I agree that anything is "possible" but I don't what the "circumstances" are in the "our 100% graduation rate is somewhat suspect given the circumstances" statement.

I would be much more suspicious if there were other "red flags" -numerous "police blotter" incidents, inability to speak the king's english, etc. Maybe I'm myopic or a Pollyanna  but I don't see much of the "thug culture" evident at MU.

I would completely agree with that.

[bilsu]

Why are we criticising people we have never met. Assuming Buzz is not a hypocite he is very concerned about people's character. Mbao was at Stonebridge because that was his opportunity to come to the United States. That has nothing to do with his character or intelligence. As far as kids coming from junior college that is probably more of a reflection on their support system than it is of their intelligence. My daughter who teaches in elementry school will tell you from experience her toughest kids to handle have parents who do not care. Her best students have parents that do care. Some kids strive to overcome this and the path takes them to junior college. Sure not every junior college person is going to be successful and a good citizen, but it is up to Buzz's staff to weed those people out. Until we actually find that Buzz's recruits are deficient in some way I see no reason for topics like this.