I feel bad for Marquette84

[Marquette84]

I believe it would be important for media guides to build up coaches who haven't accomplished anything----but for someone who has had success let the success speak for you not hype. I have always been under the persuasion that in order to be successful one should talke a different route than the crowd.

Which is why Duke's media guide devotes 8 pages to Mike Krzysyzewski.  I guess Duke is still in need of building up a coach who hasn't accomplished anything.

[Marquette84]

MU 84 your defense and hypothesis to defend Creans recruiting is simply pathetic....i do know what year Mu joined the BE...

The facts suggest otherwise.

When talking about the recruting right after the final four, in two separate posts mentioned that Crean had the advantages of the Big East.

Recuriting for the 2003 and 2004 classes were over by the time the Big East annoucement came.  2003 signed in the fall of 2002 or spring of '03, and they were already two months in school.  By October 23 2003, 92 of the top 100 HS recruits had made verbal commitments. 

let me ask this why do you keep referring to recruitng during and before 2003. 

Because the 2003 and 2004 clases were those most impacted by the rumors of Crean's departure, which was largely based on getting to the final four.

Explain his recruitng classes 2004 thru 2008.  they were simply horrendous, apart from Hayward and Mbakwe  i think a legitiamate argumane tcan be made that we simply should not have offered a single one of those other kids.  And all those kids knew they were signing with a final 4 coach, to play in the BE, Dwade etc at the BC and at the Al.

That's easy to explain.  You're simply wrong.

2005:  James, McNeal, Mathews.
2006:  Hayward
2007:  Mbakwe, Christopherson
2008:  Tyshawn Taylor, Nick Williams
2009:  Erik Williams

I think that is a fine top 8 for 2008, and Erik Williams was a good start on 2009. 

You seem to be upset about the guys who had to be recruited as two and three year backups.  Care to list the point guards Crean should have recruited in 2006 instead of Aacker or Cubillan to back up James for 3 years?  Care to list the wings that would be content to sit behind McNeal and Matthews?

Didn't think so.

Yeah, it would have been nice to have a quality big man in 2006--we landed Mbakwe in 2007. 

I guess your argument is that those classes weren't as good as you would have liked.  So what?  My point is that 2005 onward were all better than 2003 and 2004, and the reason 2003 and 2004.   

Your obsession with Crean blinds you from that obvious fact.

[MR.HAYWARD]

Wow Mu84 you have said some real head scrathchers but this one has to take the cake.....

That's easy to explain.  You're simply wrong.

2005:  James, McNeal, Mathews.
2006:  Hayward
2007:  Mbakwe, Christopherson
2008:  Tyshawn Taylor, Nick Williams
2009:  Erik Williams

I think that is a fine top 8 for 2008, and Erik Williams was a good start on 2009. 


Wow that is a perfect argument for someone living in a freaking dreamworld, but since when does a team get to perform on the court with 5 recruiting classes.  So to use your number you can either lop off  the 2005 class or the 2009 class.  That leaves you with Crean recruitng either 5 big east caliber players over 4 years or that leaves crean with recruitng 7 big east caliber players over 4 years. 

Additonally let get freaking real to add Scott Chrositopherson as a BE caliber player is to simply lie to ones self he had nothing of BE caliber except for his jump shot and dribbled with his left hand like a 6 year old girl.  Please that leaves crean with 4 big east caliber players or 6 depending on what recruitng class you want to eliminate. 

So you are telling me that that is good!!  Additionally his flaws were he recruited no height.  Also, he better than anyone should have known players would leave  so was he not cutting it mighty thin here?  Addionally there are 13 shcolarship players on a roster.  Why sign NAIA calibe rplayers with the other 9 to 7 schollies.  Buzz is not resorting to that?  Oneill never did that. 

Bottom line Crean signed Dwade and managed to sign another good class in the 3 amigos apart form that his recruitng and bench coaching absolutely sucked despite having every resource out thaere that you want to somehow spin as a negative.  I guess Buzz has out recruited crean nuts off becuase he did not have the Final 4 to hold him back.  so tupid maybe he like oneil just got it done.  excuses are for losers

[Marquette84]

Wow Mu84 you have said some real head scrathchers but this one has to take the cake.....

That's easy to explain.  You're simply wrong.

2005:  James, McNeal, Mathews.
2006:  Hayward
2007:  Mbakwe, Christopherson
2008:  Tyshawn Taylor, Nick Williams
2009:  Erik Williams

I think that is a fine top 8 for 2008, and Erik Williams was a good start on 2009. 


Wow that is a perfect argument for someone living in a freaking dreamworld, but since when does a team get to perform on the court with 5 recruiting classes.  So to use your number you can either lop off  the 2005 class or the 2009 class. 

Let me go real slow for you:

2003 and 2004 classes committed before we announced we joined the big east.  Every year after that (including 2009) we were in the Big East.

We had 8 pretty good players on board for the 2008 season.  We had a good head start for 2009 with Williams.

I didn't think I had to spell this out for you, but Williams was recruited to be one member of the class that would replace James, McNeal, Matthews and Burke.  Just because Erik Williams couldn't play with the 2005 class doesn't mean Crean didn't recruit him!

Something else I didn't think I had to spell out, but Crean had three more scholarships to go--before any departures.  While you were ready to close the book on Crean, I think we would have landed at least two more top 100 players--probably Jamil Wilson and Maurice Creek.  I don't think we were out of the loop on Christan Watford, so that would have been four quality players.

So if you want to limit it to 4 years at a time, he would have recruited 8 quality players for 2005-2008; 9 for 2006-2009.

As for your conclusion on Christopherson, he was injured.  It would be like declaring Fulce or Otule to be NAIA players after this past year.  You claim the only thing he had was a jump shot--well we sure could have used that this year.  He would have been a nice complement to James in the backcourt for his shooting touch.

[MR.HAYWARD]

once again you show your ignorance by the christopherson statemnt.  playrs earn time thru there ability to defend.  No way to win or play if you cannot defend.  great defense creates stops and easy baskets going the other way.  Scott schristopherson had a good vertical but otherwise had no where near the athleticism to play at the BE level his career will be a disappointment at ISU as he has bit off more than he can chew.  He lacked BE athleticism before he ever got hurt and never had a BE handle before he got hurt.   "nice compliment to james in the backcourt"  are so freaking serious?....seriously....you mean taking minutes away from jerel or Wes or Butler...really ....seriously....the guy cannot even hold cubi or Ackers jock but he would be a nice compliment....i mean there are dumb comments but then there is the dumb comment encyclopdia written by MU84!!!

Mu 84 has to be Joanie or somother girl who knows nothing about bball,  it must be Tommy Naismiths mother!!

[ChicosBailBonds]

Fast approaching the 20 marker.....two more to go!

[Marquette84]

once again you show your ignorance by the christopherson statemnt.  playrs earn time thru there ability to defend.  No way to win or play if you cannot defend. 

I think the only one showing ignorance is you.  Christopherson was injured for most of the pre-season and first half dozen games.  That affected his play significantly.  As we saw with Hayward two years ago, Mbakwe last year, Fulce and Otule this year--if you miss pre-season practice, you never catch up. Judging him from the 2007 season is an exercise in futility.

You say that players earn minutes based on their ability to defend--yet Novak and Diener were not known for their defensive prowess.  If, as you say, they earn time by their ability to defend, then neither would have seen a minute of play.  Both saw significant minutes at MU and are playing at the next level based on their shooting--not defensive--ability.   

Christopherson may have lacked BE athleticism and quickness--but so did Diener.  So did Novak. He was a great player in HS, would have played a much greater role in 2007 had he been healthy, and in 2008 had he been here.

[The Lens]

Fast approaching the 20 marker.....two more to go!

I'm a little disappointed no one has ignored The Lens...

C_B_B, thanks for the kind words yesterday...in this little internet world, it's fun to tweak but I think we know that we're all pretty much good dudes (and women, Joanie).

[77ncaachamps]

A little insight on Christopherson...

If he was/is? that good, then why was Iowa State article about their "resurgence" say NOTHING about Christopherson?

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/article/20090424/SPORTS05/90424059/1003/

Probably because he's not THAT good. You'd think he'd have shown them something, but they're talking about Chris Colvin in the article not SC.

Diener WAS GOOD. Scott, not close at all.

Heck, the ISU messageboard has NO CLUE about SC's game: http://www.cyclonefanatic.com/forum/mens-basketball/56275-christopherson.html

SC is, according to one poster, 'rumored to be ISU's best guard.' Wow. That says a lot about the Cyclones program.

[The Lens]

Travis was a Top 40 recruit by a few services.  He absolutely owned the AAU circuit.  His rise to the NBA is not that much of a surprise based on his AAU exploits.  In fact, if he was black and from a city school, his NBA career would have been a foregone conclusion.  However, since he's white, it is seen as TC brought him out of the sticks of FDL and turned water into wine.   

[ChicosBailBonds]

Travis was a Top 40 recruit by a few services.  He absolutely owned the AAU circuit.  His rise to the NBA is not that much of a surprise based on his AAU exploits.  In fact, if he was black and from a city school, his NBA career would have been a foregone conclusion.  However, since he's white, it is seen as TC brought him out of the sticks of FDL and turned water into wine.   

Let's not forget that Wisconsin didn't offer until late (chose MU over Utah, SLU and UW-Madison).  UW-Madison at first didn't think he was Big Ten tough to handle the rigors of the conference.  I don't recall any draft board that had Diener on until his senior year (in other words, future mock NBA draft boards did not think he was NBA caliber).

[The Lens]

Let's not forget that Wisconsin didn't offer until late (chose MU over Utah, SLU and UW-Madison).  UW-Madison at first didn't think he was Big Ten tough to handle the rigors of the conference.  I don't recall any draft board that had Diener on until his senior year (in other words, future mock NBA draft boards did not think he was NBA caliber).

Such are the perils of being a white kid.  His resume reads of a 1st round pick.  He OWNED the AAU curcuit.

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

I'm a little disappointed no one has ignored The Lens...

C_B_B, thanks for the kind words yesterday...in this little internet world, it's fun to tweak but I think we know that we're all pretty much good dudes (and women, Joanie).

At one point at least 23 Pollyannas had me ignored.

[tower912]

At the time, I think there were only 25 people on the site.

[Marquette84]

A little insight on Christopherson...

If he was/is? that good, then why was Iowa State article about their "resurgence" say NOTHING about Christopherson?

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/article/20090424/SPORTS05/90424059/1003/

Probably because he's not THAT good. You'd think he'd have shown them something, but they're talking about Chris Colvin in the article not SC.

Hmm.  That's not the tune you were singing in March of 2007:
http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=2622.0

You implied he was "Mr Versatile."  Back then you said "But he CAN shoot. I wish I can say that about DJ."

Perhaps back then you were influenced by articles like this from the era:

http://www.journaltimes.com/nucleus/index.php?itemid=11548
http://marquette.scout.com/2/602928.html
http://www.tomahjournal.com/articles/2006/12/11/sports/04boys.txt

And this one, which you actually linked to in that MU scoop I linked above
http://www.lacrossetribune.com/articles/2007/03/16/newsupdate/2update.txt

Now you ask why if he was that good, he didn't appear in an Iowa State article--well I can counter with this:  If he were THAT bad, how did he EVER get on UNC's radar?
http://home.comcast.net/~tonyhutchens/uncrecruiting.html

Here's the reason:  At the time he was recruited, out of HS, he was a good player.  Even YOU agreed back then--nearly everybody else did.

He was injured for pre-season practice.  While you belive that any post-injury play is an accurate representation of how a player will perform for the rest of his career, I don't.  I think Mbakwe has demonstrated tremendous improvement over his frehsman year.  I think Fulce and Otule should not be judged on this past season, and I think Christopherson deserves to have judgement withheld until he actually plays in a season he could prepare for.


Let me ask you this:  have you written off Fulce and Otule as well?    Or will you give them the benefit of the doubt since they missed pre-season practice?  If you give them the benefit of the doubt, why so down on Scott?

Heck, the ISU messageboard has NO CLUE about SC's game: http://www.cyclonefanatic.com/forum/mens-basketball/56275-christopherson.html

SC is, according to one poster, 'rumored to be ISU's best guard.' Wow. That says a lot about the Cyclones program.

You were pretty impressed by Scott back in 2007, as were most who posted here.  Nobody said he shouldn't have been recruited, and the nearly universal sentiment was that he provided shooting which the rest of the team lacked.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Such are the perils of being a white kid.  His resume reads of a 1st round pick.  He OWNED the AAU curcuit.

True, I agree with you there.  Where we disagree is that he was an NBA player any time before his junior year.  As it was, he didn't get drafted until the second round after his Senior year.  He improved each year.

[The Lens]

Actually, I don't think his game really improved, I just think his responsibility did.

[bma725]

Let's not forget that Wisconsin didn't offer until late (chose MU over Utah, SLU and UW-Madison).  UW-Madison at first didn't think he was Big Ten tough to handle the rigors of the conference. 

That's not true.  It was spin for years that Bennett didn't offer Diener because he he was too small, when the reality is that he did offer him a scholarship early and went after him very hard, but Diener wasn't interested because of Bennett's slow down style of basketball and told him as much.  UW finished fourth in his top 4, and that was only because like most northern Wisconsin kids he had an affinity for the university.