Recruits move down in EPSN poll

[HoopsMalone]

http://insider.espn.go.com/ncb/recruiting/tracker/espnu100

Final ESPN poll out and we don't crack the top 75.  Maymon with a big drop to the mid-70s.  ESPN seems to be the least kind to our recruits this year out of all of the services. 

[HoopsMalone]

One other thing to point out though is that Indiana only has 2 recruits in the top 100, even though Tom Crean went there so he could recruit better players.  2 top 100 recruits with 5 starting jobs available does not seem too good to me.  I'd say Buzz did better with having 4 starting spots open and getting 3 top 100 recruits.

[nyg]

You mean ESPN did not rank any MU recruit on their Top 75, not that MU's overall total class ranking is in Top 75.  

Do not fret, ESPN's recruit ranking service is for the dogs.  Rely on Scouts, Rivals,etc.  

[Tugg Speedman]

what did espn say about the three amigos class four years ago versus the other services?

[ATWizJr]

good thing we've got the Juco's coming in.

[ATWizJr]

but, seriously, with 3 top 100 players and some highly rated transfers coming in I really like our incoming group.

[bma725]

what did espn say about the three amigos class four years ago versus the other services?

They weren't doing rankings 4 years ago.  Their first class was 2007.

[bma725]

http://insider.espn.go.com/ncb/recruiting/tracker/espnu100

Final ESPN poll out and we don't crack the top 75.  Maymon with a big drop to the mid-70s.  ESPN seems to be the least kind to our recruits this year out of all of the services. 

Not really a big drop for Maymon in this one, the big drop occurred a few months ago and it had nothing to do with his or anyone elses play on the court.

He and the other MU recruits were ranked highly when ESPN's ranking was done by the well respected Bob Gibbons who has been doing this for 20+ years.  Gibbons left ESPN in the late summer and was replaced by a couple of guys that have not done rankings before, and a former NBA scout.  Suffice to say they are looking at different things.

If you take a look at Gibbons new rankings separate from ESPN, you'll see how highly he thinks of this group.

#42 Junior Cadougan
#44 Jerrone Maymon
#83 Erik Williams

http://www.bobgibbons.net/index.php?/weblog/article/class_of_2009_top_150_introduction/

[VegasWarrior77]

Gibbons left ESPN in the late summer and was replaced by a couple of guys that have not done rankings before, and a former NBA scout.  Suffice to say they are looking at different things.

I was driving home from work the other afternoon and the sports talk dj was talking about the recruiting services.  He mentioned Rivals, Scouts.com and he mentioned ESPN now had Scouts, Inc (I think) as the recruiting service they use.  He said not to confuse the two "Scouts" because they were two different companies.  Is this correct?  Thanks!

[jesmu84]

is there any site/group that does the rankings for recruits and includes JUCO transfers?

[DJO's Pump Fake]

They weren't doing rankings 4 years ago.  Their first class was 2007.

Sounds reliable....

[bma725]

I was driving home from work the other afternoon and the sports talk dj was talking about the recruiting services.  He mentioned Rivals, Scouts.com and he mentioned ESPN now had Scouts, Inc (I think) as the recruiting service they use.  He said not to confuse the two "Scouts" because they were two different companies.  Is this correct?  Thanks!

Yep.  Scout.com is a part of the FoxSports network and was originally known as The Insiders.  Their rankings for basketball are done by Dave Telep and Evan Daniels with minor input from Greg Hicks(for west coast kids) and Eric Bossi(for god knows what).  

Scouts Inc started as a football scouting service that ESPN began using to break down college and NFL games.  In 2005 they expanded that to include college football recruiting and in 2007 they expanded it to basketball recruiting.  Originally the rankings were done by Bob Gibbons(of the All Star Report and HoopMasters) and Joel Fransisco(HoopScoop).

But Gibbons has left Scouts Inc, and they've got sort of a weird combination of former college coaches(Paul Biancardi, Reggie Rankin) former NBA Scouts(Antonio Williams), and the left overs from the recruiting service that was run by SchoolSports/Rise Magazine which ESPN purchased in 2008.

[bma725]

is there any site/group that does the rankings for recruits and includes JUCO transfers?

Not really.

Rivals has JUCO Junction which does rankings solely for JUCO players but does not group them with high school players.  You can find the rankings here.  http://jucojunction.rivals.com/viewrank.asp?ra_key=2309

HoopScoop doesn't publish it, but when they do their rankings of the best recruiting classes, they lump all players in the incoming group together regardless of whether they are high school, prep school, 1 year JUCO, 1 year JUCO or foreign players.  They then break down the players into levels, like 1-5, 6-10, 11-40, 41-70, 71-100, 101-300, and 300+.  Unfortunately they only tell you what level a player is on, not their specific rank.

[RaleighWarrior]

HoopScoop has Marquette's 2009 class (including JUCOs) ranked 2nd behind North Carolina. Indiana is fifth.

[NotAnAlum]

JucoJunction doesn't list Johnson-Odom in their list.  That seems kind of strange given that he was a 1st team all american.  Is this list only for guys they thought were leaving JC after the normal 2 years?
By the way how many first team JC all americans are there?  Is it just 5?

[Chicago_inferiority_complexes]

HoopScoop has Marquette's 2009 class (including JUCOs) ranked 2nd behind North Carolina. Indiana is fifth.

I know that they are different services, but how do you have no recruits over 75 but have a number two ranked class? I'm truly ignorant of how that can happen, I'm just asking.

Wouldn't we need 3-4-5 top 15, 20 recruits to be ranked second??

[bma725]

JucoJunction doesn't list Johnson-Odom in their list.  That seems kind of strange given that he was a 1st team all american.  Is this list only for guys they thought were leaving JC after the normal 2 years?
By the way how many first team JC all americans are there?  Is it just 5?

Take a look at the date on the JUCO Junction link.  That list was update in the fall of 2008.  At that time Johnson Odom had yet to play a JUCO game and was thought of as a class of 2010 product when this list is for 2009.

[dwaderoy2004]

I know that they are different services, but how do you have no recruits over 75 but have a number two ranked class? I'm truly ignorant of how that can happen, I'm just asking.

Wouldn't we need 3-4-5 top 15, 20 recruits to be ranked second??

well that's the thing, while espn has them ranked 75+, hoopscoop has cadougan, buycks, Williams AND Maymon all ranked in the 11-40 range.  Roseboro is ranked in teh 101-300 range, and they haven't updated since we added DJO.

[bma725]

I know that they are different services, but how do you have no recruits over 75 but have a number two ranked class? I'm truly ignorant of how that can happen, I'm just asking.

Wouldn't we need 3-4-5 top 15, 20 recruits to be ranked second??

Think about what you are saying for a second.  You're asking how we can have the #2 class on HoopScoop, when the ESPN rankings don't have anyone inside the top 75.  Wouldn't you think that since HoopScoop is ranking classes they would have their own individual ranks as well that just might be different than what ESPN has?

The fact that ESPN's ranking has  all of them outside of the top 75 is irrelevant to the HoopScoop ranking because they do their own and they think these recruits are much better than ESPN does.

According to HoopScoop, Junior Cadougan is the #12 HS player in the country, Erik Williams is the #14 HS player in the country, and Jerrone Maymon is the #23 HS player.  When you look at their combined ranking, Williams, Cadougan, Buycks and Maymon are all among the top 40 players in the class and DJO is among the top 100.

[bma725]

well that's the thing, while espn has them ranked 75+, hoopscoop has cadougan, buycks, Williams AND Maymon all ranked in the 11-40 range.  Roseboro is ranked in teh 101-300 range, and they haven't updated since we added DJO.

They have updated it.  DJO is ranked in the 71-100 range.  That gives MU enough points to tie UNC for the #1 overall class but UNC wins the tie breaker of points per player.

http://www.hoopscooponline.com/members/toprecruitingclasses-classof2009.asp

[Chicago_inferiority_complexes]

Think about what you are saying for a second.  You're asking how we can have the #2 class on HoopScoop, when the ESPN rankings don't have anyone inside the top 75.  Wouldn't you think that since HoopScoop is ranking classes they would have their own individual ranks as well that just might be different than what ESPN has?

Uhhhhh ... that was my point of stating that they are two different rankings ...

According to HoopScoop, Junior Cadougan is the #12 HS player in the country, Erik Williams is the #14 HS player in the country, and Jerrone Maymon is the #23 HS player.  When you look at their combined ranking, Williams, Cadougan, Buycks and Maymon are all among the top 40 players in the class and DJO is among the top 100.

Even with those numbers, it's surprising that they average out to the second ranked group of incoming recruits in the country.

[bma725]

Uhhhhh ... that was my point of stating that they are two different rankings ...

Even with those numbers, it's surprising that they average out to the second ranked group of incoming recruits in the country.

Take a look at the link I posted before.  HoopScoop doesn't do averages, they do totals.  They are more interested in the cumulative amount of talent coming into a program in a given year than the individual talents of the players.

MU has 39 total points for it's incoming recruits which ties it with UNC.  But MU has an average talent rating of 6.5 per player which is behind UNC, Villanova, Illinois, Texas, Florida, Duke, and Florida State.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Not really.

They then break down the players into levels, like 1-5, 6-10, 11-40, 41-70, 71-100, 101-300, and 300+.  Unfortunately they only tell you what level a player is on, not their specific rank.

I've never really followed the numbers in recruiting, but this seems like a pretty good way to evaluate classes. I mean, is there really a noticeable difference between the #20 player and the #40? There probably are some slight differences, but it's hard to see the small stuff when these kids play in all different leagues and tournaments.

Sounds like Buzz has brought in a nice class. I'm optimistic.

Now, what will really impress me is if Buzz can follow this class up with some more talented kids and still keep all of the players happy with their roles/playing time. I hate to bring in a bunch of talented guys who ultimately end up unhappy with the role play. I'm not saying that's going to happen, or that I doubt the head coach. I'm just thinking that it could happen. 

[bma725]

Now, what will really impress me is if Buzz can follow this class up with some more talented kids and still keep all of the players happy with their roles/playing time. I hate to bring in a bunch of talented guys who ultimately end up unhappy with the role play. I'm not saying that's going to happen, or that I doubt the head coach. I'm just thinking that it could happen. 

FWIW, HoopScoop currently has MU's 2010 class at #14.  Clark is listed in the 11-40 range which is not surprising at all considering that they had him at #43 when he was coming out of high school.  Bowen is in the 101-300 range.

[GB Warrior]

These rankings should be discredited by the fact that Jamil Wilson magically jumped Maymon by a mile. Please refer to the 2009 Wisconsin State Championship a more accurate comparison of skill.