Recruits move down in EPSN poll

[MR.HAYWARD]

Over the years hoops scoop has taken a ton of heat by people saying they dont like there scoring system, that is of the way they 'score" individual recruits.  They give a 10 to like the top 10 recruits and then a 9 I beleive to like 10-20 and then a 8 to 21-40.  And a 6 to a 41-100.  i may be off on that but i think i am pretty close as I followed clark francis for along time partly becuase I actually wholheartedly agree with his system. 

Alot of people complain that the 58th rated players gets a 6 while the 8th rated player gets a 10 and the affect that has on the rankings.  i actually disagree, I think there should be a alarge disparity dont you think that over the years a greg oden, or a kevin Durant, or a Blake griffin, or a Carmelo anthony are way way way beter players and amke a much more signifcant impactthat a guy like a Steve Novak, travis diener or a Wes MAtthews.  some system call one a 5 and the other a 4 a 20% difference hoopscoop would call one a 6 and the other a 10 a 40% difference.  I agree and believe those top players make a big time difference.  along those same lines I would take a top 20-30 player over a top 100 player any day and think there should be some disparity while on other services there is no difference 25-30 thru 100 or 125 is a 4 star period.  i think that is off there is a differnce in most cases a big difference between a top 30 type player ala aDominic James, johnny Flynn, Scotty reynolds, Evan turner, etc over a kid how is rated in the 100 range. 

just my take i know hoopscoop takes a bunch of heat for giving so mant points to the elite players but I think it is warranted, and more accurate. 

also i like the averge class score, but I dont like his cumulative #.  some years schools sign crappy classes but need 8 new kids and have a big cumulative score but no quality.  I actaully like to rank the classes by the average score.  would you rather have a class of 4 kids that receive an 8 score for a 32 or 8 kids that are rated a 4.  In Mu's case we have abig class but a big time avergae to boot.  Hence the 31 ranking with UNC.  i sure hope Clark is right on his rnaking of Mu players, i will say this he had them extremely highly rated before they ever signed with Mu and that is different than many services where a guy will leap 50-100 spots if the sign with a Duke or Ucla, etc.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

FWIW, HoopScoop currently has MU's 2010 class at #14.  Clark is listed in the 11-40 range which is not surprising at all considering that they had him at #43 when he was coming out of high school.  Bowen is in the 101-300 range.

I like the sounds of that.

I love the volume of talent coming in. The next hurdle is developing the talent and getting guys to buy into their roles.

Hopefully Buzz can create enough basketballs and minutes to keep everybody happy. I'm not trying to be a Debbie Downer, it's just something I've been thinking about every time I see Buzz add another talented guy.

I'm very hopeful.

[bma725]

I take it back, there is one more service that lumps JUCO players in with HS and Prep players...ESPN.  They don't do a ranking, but you can sort all players based on grade, and that will put everyone together.  When done that way, Buycks is #45 in the class, Cadougan is #91, Maymon is #96, and Williams is #113. 

The problem comes in how they differentiate between players with the same grade.  For example, Buycks is given a grade of 94.  That means he could be anywhere from #39 to #51.  Cadougan has a grade of 92.  That means he could be anywhere from #69 to #93.  Maymon and Williams both have grades of 91.  That means either one of them could be anywhere from #94 to #121.  No explanation is given on how they break ties between players with the same grade, so it's a little tough to buy into the notion that one guy is 20+ spots better than another with the exact same grade.

http://tinyurl.com/dlmab8

[bma725]

One more interesting note, just to show you how inexact these rankings can be.  Take a look at Latavious Williams.  Rivals has him as the #13 player in the country.  HoopMasters has him at #39.  USA Today has him at #79.  PrepStars has him at #90.  Scout and HoopScoop leave post grads out of their ranking, but would definitely have him in the top 100 if not the top half of the top 100.

ESPN on the other hand rates him as the 141st best player in the class of 2009.

[VegasWarrior77]

One more interesting note, just to show you how inexact these rankings can be. 

This discussion reminded me of an article written by Las Vegas R-J columnist Ed Graney on 12-03-08.  I think it correctly addresses two things: 1) the fact that recruiting is not an exact science; and 2) recruiting big men is even more of a crapshoot.  When UNLV signed seven footer Beas Hamga one headline proclaimed the Rebels had "Hit the Recruiting Jackpot".  Hamga never developed his skills at UNLV and ended up transferring to Valparaiso during this past season.  For some perspective: In the 2007 class he was rated by Rivals as #26 overall (3 spots behind Blake Griffin of Oklahoma!) and was ranked the #5 center (ahead of Cole Aldrich of Kansas!).

http://www.lvrj.com/sports/36099664.html

ED GRANEY: Hamga proves star rankings guarantee nothing

Lon Kruger was a no-star. All he turned out to be was one of the finest basketball players in Kansas State history. Lew Hill was a no-star. All he did was win a national junior college championship and become an All-Missouri Valley Conference player at Wichita State. Rene Rougeau was a no-star. All he can boast about is being the best all-around player on UNLV's roster today.

"They didn't have stars when I was playing," Kruger said.

Back then, stars were left to those who have use for them: Astronomers.

Things have changed for the worse.

Beas Hamga today is a confused 20-year-old searching for a new home. He's also a flawless example of how suspect rankings and overzealous expectations can lead to hasty decisions.

He is the poster boy for hype gone unrealized. He is one of many before and to come in college basketball.

Hamga was granted his release from the Rebels on Friday and now will look for playing time elsewhere, although what he assumes will be greener pastures has every chance of offering the same level of disenchantment he felt here.

He hasn't come close to proving he's near the player prep rankings advertised him to be, which speaks to a much larger problem than his frustration sitting the bench.

Simply, such rankings are more often than not absurd.

Internet sites and others who rank high school players serve a purpose, just not a legitimate one. They are an enjoyable hobby for fans, but anyone who accepts such evaluations as a definite gauge of long-term potential either works for those offering the ranking or is in desperate need of a life.

So few prospects are such obvious can't-miss greats, my 7-year-old daughter could rank them. Even she would have been OK with LeBron James getting five stars.

It's just the hundreds of others people guess at.

By one service Hamga was ranked as the nation's fifth-best center and its 26th-best player overall when arriving at UNLV. We now know how preposterous those claims were. It's not the first or even the 1,000th time.

The lunacy begins with a subjective number of stars being assigned to a player by someone who might watch the kid just a few times (if that) and often has questionable relationships with AAU coaches pushing players for their own benefit.

It continues with college coaches hyping the player once signed, with media relations officials writing releases and media guide bios highlighting such rankings, and with the media falling in line by repeating the same glowing information. We're part of the problem. We are guilty of feeding the beast like everyone else.

"You have to accept that's part of it and move on," said Hill, a fifth-year assistant under Kruger. "All of that stuff is part of the business now. ... But nobody seems to have patience -- (not) the kid's people (or) the kid himself. Look at the background of our program. Rene. Joel (Anthony). Gaston (Essengue). Joe (Darger). The only really good one right off the bat was Wink (Adams).

"Those other guys stayed and worked and developed and had patience. I think (Hamga) was going to be a good player for us, just not this year."

Did UNLV coaches miss on him as a recruit? We won't know until Hamga's career plays out, whenever and wherever that is. But this is certain: If you're near 7 feet on a team with little inside game -- or at least none that would worry good opponents -- and you can't get off the bench, you're at least a year or two from being able to contribute much at this level.

There's nothing wrong with that. Hamga is a redshirt freshman. He had time to grow and mature and add weight and eventually see more time.

But that's not the instant-gratification world we live in, and whether it was Hamga or those who advise him or both, the burden of living up to impractical expectations or believing ones that they wrongly bought into, the choice was made to leave.

I'm sure UNLV wanted him to stay, that Kruger wasn't at all forthcoming on a local radio show Thursday when asked about Hamga because he perhaps thought there was a way to salvage the situation. At least I'd like to believe it. You never really know. Coaches want more than anything to win. It's contained in their DNA.

I'm sure of this: The beast yet again proves itself as reliable as bald tires.

"Not being part of any of those (prep rankings) or having any stars by my name helped me a lot," Rougeau said. "There weren't any expectations of me out of high school, which allowed me to come in and work hard and get better. I'm still trying to prove myself each day.

"But you can either make it at this level or you can't. You have to understand not everyone is going to come in and play right away. I'm sorry Beas had to leave. He's a friend. I wish him the best. I hope it's the right move. But you have to either learn patience or move on.

"Five stars are nice for the fans to talk about, but you still have to prove you can play."

Maybe we should leave all the rankings to Rougeau. Let's hear it for a return to the time when reality trumped propaganda.

Leave the stars to the guys with telescopes.

[Hards Alumni]

These rankings should be discredited by the fact that Jamil Wilson magically jumped Maymon by a mile. Please refer to the 2009 Wisconsin State Championship a more accurate comparison of skill.

Right because one game means everything.

Lets also take into account that that Memorial had probably 3 NCAA level players on their team (Maymon, Blue, and Lomomba... start recruiting him NOW Buzz), while Wilson was alone... And then take into account that Wilson had 4 fouls most of the second half and couldn't really play defense.

Maybe watch the game before spouting off rather ignorant comments.

[bma725]

Right because one game means everything.

Lets also take into account that that Memorial had probably 3 NCAA level players on their team (Maymon, Blue, and Lomomba... start recruiting him NOW Buzz), while Wilson was alone... And then take into account that Wilson had 4 fouls most of the second half and couldn't really play defense.

Maybe watch the game before spouting off rather ignorant comments.

4 NCAA players.  Tre Creamer had D1 offers and as of a month ago was planning on committing to Baylor.

http://www.madison.com/wsj/home/sports/443757