Miller...."go to a place you can win a national title"

[ChicosBailBonds]

That's one of the reasons Crean left.  He didn't think you could win a national title at Marquette.  Miller basically just said the same thing about Xavier (and basically said the same thing about MU last year when he wasn't interested).



"I would never leave Xavier unless it was a place where I really felt you could win a national championship," Miller said. "When I say that, it does not mean you can't win one here [Xavier]. [Arizona] is a place that has done it before, and has a quarter century worth of excellence."

[79Warrior]

That's one of the reasons Crean left.  He didn't think you could win a national title at Marquette.  Miller basically just said the same thing about Xavier (and basically said the same thing about MU last year when he wasn't interested).



"I would never leave Xavier unless it was a place where I really felt you could win a national championship," Miller said. "When I say that, it does not mean you can't win one here [Xavier]. [Arizona] is a place that has done it before, and has a quarter century worth of excellence."

uh oh, better get ready for everyone saying you are crazy.

[Blackhat]

Crean couldn't win the NC at MU unless he hit the jackpot again.   Isn't a good enough recruiter.

Makes me respect a guy like Few and McGuire and their integrity to raise up a program and not use limitations as an excuse.  These guys are 1 in 100. 

[Sir Lawrence]

Am I missing something?  Why does one National title mean it's that much better than Xavier?

[Ready2Fly]

Weather, women, BCS Conference, and 25 straight years in the tournament make it that much better than Xavier.

[jmayer1]

In most cases, the coach is what makes the school elite, not the other way around.  What was Zona before Lute? UConn before Calhoun?  A good coach can win at an elite level just about anywhere (Few at Zaga, Cal at Memphis, Miller at Xavier).  Granted, it will be easier to win a NC at some schools but a really great coach will not be held down by his school.  Obviously some schools (NC, UCLA, Kansas, IU, Kent, Duke) basically sell themselves and greatly increase the chance for success but there isn't much difference between most of the other destinations.

[reinko]

Weather, women, BCS Conference, and 25 straight years in the tournament make it that much better than Xavier.

I hate this whole weather argument.  Really?  Weather?  What is everyone adverse to the cold?  It's not like high level D-1 coaches go to the beach and play golf every day.  They are in gym 16 hours a day.  So yeah that walk to his car in the morning, and that walk to his car at night are the only times he will expierence the glorious weather in Tucson.  The cupboard is also completely bare at 'Zona too, almost as bad as IU.

[77ncaachamps]

I hate this whole weather argument.  Really?  Weather?  What is everyone adverse to the cold?  It's not like high level D-1 coaches go to the beach and play golf every day.  They are in gym 16 hours a day.  So yeah that walk to his car in the morning, and that walk to his car at night are the only times he will expierence the glorious weather in Tucson.  The cupboard is also completely bare at 'Zona too, almost as bad as IU.

Since Michigan State's playing tonight and have won them before, it really doesn't make any sense.

[M@RQUETTEW@RRIORS]

In most cases, the coach is what makes the school elite, not the other way around.  What was Zona before Lute? UConn before Calhoun?  A good coach can win at an elite level just about anywhere (Few at Zaga, Cal at Memphis, Miller at Xavier).  Granted, it will be easier to win a NC at some schools but a really great coach will not be held down by his school.  Obviously some schools (NC, UCLA, Kansas, IU, Kent, Duke) basically sell themselves and greatly increase the chance for success but there isn't much difference between most of the other destinations.

I would agrue that this statement is true for even the Big 6 nowadays.  Just look at recent history:
UNC - Daugherty
Kentucky - Billy G
Indiana - post Knight

No school in America is immune to the bad hire anymore.  Those days are over.  Even as flat as the playing field is today, those schools can still recover more easily.  

[ChicosBailBonds]

Crean couldn't win the NC at MU unless he hit the jackpot again.   Isn't a good enough recruiter.

Makes me respect a guy like Few and McGuire and their integrity to raise up a program and not use limitations as an excuse.  These guys are 1 in 100. 

But there in comes the rub.  Few hasn't even gone to a Final Four, let alone a national title. (Mcguire a different era)  It's been a long long long long time since a non-football school won the entire thing.  Georgetown in the 1980's?  Seton Hall played for it all in '89.

Doesn't mean we can't be competitive, because the non-football schools are damn competitive.  But I do believe there is a stigma with some of the coaches that it's easier to win a national title with more dollars behind them then it is at a small, private, non-football school.

Fair or not, I believe that perception exists with some coaches with these schools.  Fortunately not all.

That's also why I love folks like Jay Wright, Mark Few, etc and I hope like hell they think it can be done at the non-football schools.  If Wrigt and/or Few leave soon, that will put a dent in that thinking for me.  I'd love to see one of them win it all (and of course, even more if MU were to win it all).

[Pakuni]

I hate this whole weather argument.  Really?  Weather?  What is everyone adverse to the cold?  It's not like high level D-1 coaches go to the beach and play golf every day.  They are in gym 16 hours a day.  So yeah that walk to his car in the morning, and that walk to his car at night are the only times he will expierence the glorious weather in Tucson.  The cupboard is also completely bare at 'Zona too, almost as bad as IU.

Syracuse (located in the snowiest city in America) = Four Final Fours, Two Finals, One Championship

Arizona (located in the greatest weather location ever, apparently) = Four Final Fours, Two Finals, One Championship

As you can see, weather is huge.

Seriously, it's not about the weather and never has been. It's about who's coaching in that weather. Last I checked, Arizona State has weather just as hot and women even hotter than Arizona, and the program until recently has been a middle-of-thepack to bottom feeder in the Pac 10.

p.s. Tucson is kind of a dump.

[79Warrior]

Am I missing something?  Why does one National title mean it's that much better than Xavier?

much better conference.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Crean couldn't win the NC at MU unless he hit the jackpot again.   Isn't a good enough recruiter.

Makes me respect a guy like Few and McGuire and their integrity to raise up a program and not use limitations as an excuse.  These guys are 1 in 100. 

Agree 100%. Especially with how Al turned down the Bucks job.

[79Warrior]

Agree 100%. Especially with how Al turned down the Bucks job.

I will bet you eat crow on Crean's recruiting. he is lining them up like bowling pins at IU.

[Blackhat]

I will bet you eat crow on Crean's recruiting. he is lining them up like bowling pins at IU.

no sh.t sherlock.   It's a lot easier to recruit at IU than Marquette that's the whole point.   That will never change the fact that Crean isn't a good enough recruiter to recruit elite at Marquette.   He's not a McGuire, Calipari...those guys are 1 in 100.    He needed to get a top job because he wasn't good enough, he needs to be aided. 

[Henry Sugar]

no sh.t sherlock.   It's a lot easier to recruit at IU than Marquette that's the whole point.   That will never change the fact that Crean isn't a good enough recruiter to recruit elite at Marquette.   He's not a McGuire, Calipari...those guys are 1 in 100.    He needed to get a top job because he wasn't good enough, he needs to be aided. 

"Calipari doesn't need to be aided?"
---World Wide Wes

[Blackhat]

"Calipari doesn't need to be aided?"
---World Wide Wes

That would be logical except Calipari can sell snow to an eskimo. WWW does help currently but it's not like Calipari couldn't recruit before WWW. 

[ChicosBailBonds]

uh oh, better get ready for everyone saying you are crazy.

For clarity, I'm not saying that but I think some coaches believe it.

[Henry Sugar]

That would be logical except Calipari can sell snow to an eskimo. WWW does help currently but it's not like Calipari couldn't recruit before WWW. 

And yet Calipari has a stench about him for his recruiting before WWW as well.

For the record, I agree with you.  Crean was not a good enough recruiter for Marquette.  He was a lot better when he was selling the State school and Izzo.

Without belaboring the point, almost every good recruiter has some sort of advantage (school history, the state school, personal track record, or whispers of impropriety) they can leverage.  I really struggle to think of an outstanding recruiting coach that does not.

[wildbillsb]

Agree 100%. Especially with how Al turned down the Bucks job.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Buck (Raynor SJ) turn down the Bucks job for Al?

[Blackhat]

And yet Calipari has a stench about him for his recruiting before WWW as well.

For the record, I agree with you.  Crean was not a good enough recruiter for Marquette.  He was a lot better when he was selling the State school and Izzo.

Without belaboring the point, almost every good recruiter has some sort of advantage (school history, the state school, personal track record, or whispers of impropriety) they can leverage.  I really struggle to think of an outstanding recruiting coach that does not.

I think you're right.  

[Lennys Tap]

But there in comes the rub.  Few hasn't even gone to a Final Four, let alone a national title. (Mcguire a different era)  It's been a long long long long time since a non-football school won the entire thing.  Georgetown in the 1980's?  Seton Hall played for it all in '89.

Doesn't mean we can't be competitive, because the non-football schools are damn competitive.  But I do believe there is a stigma with some of the coaches that it's easier to win a national title with more dollars behind them then it is at a small, private, non-football school.

Fair or not, I believe that perception exists with some coaches with these schools.  Fortunately not all.

That's also why I love folks like Jay Wright, Mark Few, etc and I hope like hell they think it can be done at the non-football schools.  If Wrigt and/or Few leave soon, that will put a dent in that thinking for me.  I'd love to see one of them win it all (and of course, even more if MU were to win it all).

The last non football team to win it all was Villanova in 1985. Georgetown won in 1984.

[Marquette84]

no sh.t sherlock.   It's a lot easier to recruit at IU than Marquette that's the whole point.   That will never change the fact that Crean isn't a good enough recruiter to recruit elite at Marquette.   He's not a McGuire, Calipari...those guys are 1 in 100.    He needed to get a top job because he wasn't good enough, he needs to be aided. 

You're right.  We saw how easy it was for MU to leverage elite-level recruiting to repeatedly get to the Sweet 16 between 1978 and 2000.  One cannot describe the talent dropoff once Crean arrived.  

Imagine this: if it weren't for Dwyane Wade, Travis Diener, Jerel McNeal, Wes Matthews, and potentially Lazar Hayward, Crean would have recruited NONE of MU's top 10 all time scorers!

[77ncaachamps]

You're right.  We saw how easy it was for MU to leverage elite-level recruiting to repeatedly get to the Sweet 16 between 1978 and 2000.  One cannot describe the talent dropoff once Crean arrived.  

Imagine this: if it weren't for Dwyane Wade, Travis Diener, Jerel McNeal, Wes Matthews, and potentially Lazar Hayward, Crean would have recruited NONE of MU's top 10 all time scorers!

Do I have to remind you that it took four years for those players (except Wade) AND the three-point line to earn those numbers?



Jerel played FOUR years and if you convert his three-pointers to twos, he'll be sitting at 1821. That'd still be 48 points above George Thompson who did it in THREE years!!!

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Buck (Raynor SJ) turn down the Bucks job for Al?

You are correct.

I was being sarcastic.

I love Al as much as the next guy, but Al was just like most/all other coaches... if a better deal comes along, they are probably going to take it. Nothing wrong with that. This is a career for these guys, not a hobby.

Tom Crean's transition was a mess, but when it comes down to it, he simply took a better job. It's hard to blame him for that.

He will probably do very well at IU, and that will drive some people around here crazy.