3 main ingredients for an elite program

[NavinRJohnson]

If you read the prior posts ,      many more examples of more qualified coaches were mentioned   .

What are you talking about? Yes a number of names were brought up of guys who were looked at a year ago, but politely declined (Miller and Bennett specifically). I'll echo the question, but not expect an answer because it has been asked of you many times to no avail, but who exactly are these qualified/elite coaches that YOU think MU should go after that could reasonably be expected to consider it?

[jmayer1]

I was a math major .   I am not a writer and don't care about spacing  .    My grammar is correct and believe the content of my message is more important    . You are a bit too anal sir or madam    .  If you read the prior posts ,      many more examples of more qualified coaches were mentioned   .

Your major has nothing to do with being able to properly type at a level any 3rd grader would be expected to achieve.

You have not mentioned a coach other than Calipari.  Others have mentioned guys that rebuffed offers from MU, but I don't think know if those guys were exactly "elite" either.  Please give examples of "elite" coaches you think MU could lure to Milwaukee?

[ChicosBailBonds]

Are you a psychiatrist ? Please do not refer to me as delusional or any other term . I am simply posting my thoughts in a respectable manner. I know Buzz is not leaving .I never said he was . I never said he was a bad coach or bad recruiter .I am a fan .I want to win and want to win soon .I simply believe a rookie coach will delay the process .

For some reason, there are people here that think if you write a post that questions anything about Buzz...his tie...it means you hate him or want him fired.  I don't know why.  There can't be more than 1% of the people on this board that want him fired yet if folks dare to question a few things, you're so labeled as one of those people. 

[NavinRJohnson]

For some reason, there are people here that think if you write a post that questions anything about Buzz...his tie...it means you hate him or want him fired.  I don't know why. 

There are also people on this board who think Buzz should be fired, now, in favor of an Elite Coach, because after all this is a business. AlienWarrior's words, not mine....

Yes ,you fire him .This is a BUSINESS  .

[AlienWarrior]

I agree ,beyond Calipari and Few ,and maybe Stevens, there are not too many elite coaches available. We will see what happens after the tourney. I am not familiar with all the mid major coaches who have had success and have more experience.

[RawdogDX]

I was a math major .   I am not a writer and don't care about spacing  .    My grammar is correct and believe the content of my message is more important   . You are a bit too anal sir or madam    .  If you read the prior posts ,      many more examples of more qualified coaches were mentioned  .

Do you not realize we have a great class coming in? you realize we fire buzz and hire someone else that we would lose 2 or 3 of those guys?  Our team would be terrible next year and worse the year after that if we lose this class.  
What exactly does buzz do that makes you so sure he can't become a good coach and take us to the point where we are a national recruiting draw? the biggest problem people have with him so far is that he doesn't use time outs well. what is easier to learn? when to call a time out or how to recruit?  That is the easiest problem to fix.  

You say you're not patient but you want us to go into next year without viable starters by getting rid of a first year coach who brough in a top 20 class and went 12 and 6 in one of the best conferences ever.  That isn't enough to get you interested in what will happen next?  We could have been a top 5 team at the end of the year if there wasn't a freak injury.  Why fire that guy?  We aren't kansas, UNC or *caugh*Indiana*caugh*

If we could have gotten an elite guy last year i would have been all for it, but there is no way we should be risking this class for your unlikely (imo nearly impossible) pipe dram.   get over it, or it will just be you against a hundred people rolling their eyes at you every time you post.  

[ChicosBailBonds]

Your major has nothing to do with being able to properly type at a level any 3rd grader would be expected to achieve.

You must really be appalled at Mr. Hayward then....a.k.a. the iddiot (sic)

[AlienWarrior]

There are also people on this board who think Buzz should be fired, now, in favor of an Elite Coach, because after all this is a business. AlienWarrior's words, not mine....

[/quote
Yes ,he would be fired if we found a better coach

[NavinRJohnson]

I am not familiar with all the mid major coaches who have had success and have more experience.

So now we're looking at the Mid-Major coaches as a possible replacement? How on earth does that equate to an elite coach?

[rocky_warrior]

Are you a psychiatrist ? Please do not refer to me as delusional or any other term.

I apologize.  I am not a psychiatrist.  I used the word delusional because I think your belief that Marquette would quickly ascend to the top of the BE with an "elite" coach is inherently false.  I didn't mean it as an insult.

For a moment, I'll ignore whether any coach is available (except I'm also assuming we can't get an existing Big East coach)....who would you take?  

Roy Williams?  Yes, he'd probably have us competing for the top 8 Big East spots - but we did that this year.

Billy Donovan?  Yes, he'd probably have us competing for the top 8 Big East spots - but we did that this year.

Tom Crean?  Whoops

Calipari? Yes, he'd probably have us competing for the top 8 Big East spots - but we did that this year.

Izzo? Yes, he'd probably have us competing for the top 8 Big East spots - but we did that this year.

Krzyzewski? Yes, he'd probably have us competing for the top 8 Big East spots - but we did that this year.

You can't convince me that ANY of these guys would have done better with Marquette this year, or have us in a better situation going into next year.  They still have to compete with Calhoun, Pitino, Boeheim, JT3, Wright, Dixon, & Huggins.  There's not a single coach in the country that could guarantee us a top 4 spot every year!  Heck, JT3 couldn't even stay in the top 8 this year with a LOADED team.

We're in a good situation.  You even seem to partially admit that.  Why mess it up by getting rid of Buzz now?

[ChicosBailBonds]

There are also people on this board who think Buzz should be fired, now, in favor of an Elite Coach, because after all this is a business. AlienWarrior's words, not mine....

1% at most.

[ChicosBailBonds]

So now we're looking at the Mid-Major coaches as a possible replacement? How on earth does that equate to an elite coach?

It may or may not.  For some reason people are hung up on elite coaches only being at major institutions.  That's silly.  Was Bo Ryan not an elite coach at the DIII level? There are many elite coaches that have chosen to be where they are or haven't taken the next step for whatever reason, doesn't make them any less talented as a coach because of the school they are at.   Was Eddie Robinson not an elite coach because he was at Grambling?

[Pakuni]

I agree ,beyond Calipari and Few ,and maybe Stevens, there are not too many elite coaches available. We will see what happens after the tourney. I am not familiar with all the mid major coaches who have had success and have more experience.

First, Calipari and Few are not available, certainly not to Marquette.

Second, are you talking about Brad Stevens?
The same Brad Stevens who has one NCAA victory on his resume (same number as some guy named Buzz) and two whole years of head coaching experience?
That's your definition of an elite coach?

And you wonder why some are saying you're delusional?

[Pakuni]

It may or may not.  For some reason people are hung up on elite coaches only being at major institutions.  That's silly.  Was Bo Ryan not an elite coach at the DIII level? There are many elite coaches that have chosen to be where they are or haven't taken the next step for whatever reason, doesn't make them any less talented as a coach because of the school they are at.   Was Eddie Robinson not an elite coach because he was at Grambling?

So had MU gone out and hired Jack Bennett would you have praised Cottingham for hiring an elite coach? I sorta doubt it.
And obviously UW didn't think Bo was an elite coach. Had they thought so, he wouldn't have been their (at best) Plan C after Majerus and Ben Braun turned them down.

[RawdogDX]

There are also people on this board who think Buzz should be fired, now, in favor of an Elite Coach, because after all this is a business. AlienWarrior's words, not mine....

[/quote
Yes ,he would be fired if we found a better coach

found?  Like if coach K just happened to be walking down wisconsin ave and fell in love with our campus and ran up to cottingham and begged him to?  Yes, he'd at least have to think about it.  Not going to happen, get over it.

[NavinRJohnson]

It may or may not.  For some reason people are hung up on elite coaches only being at major institutions.  That's silly.  Was Bo Ryan not an elite coach at the DIII level? There are many elite coaches that have chosen to be where they are or haven't taken the next step for whatever reason, doesn't make them any less talented as a coach because of the school they are at.   

That's fine. I don't necessarily disagree, but I do have a couple questions...

1. Who are they? Who are these Mid Major/DII coaches that would warrant firing Buzz, as Alien suggested? After all, that was the point of this idiotic thread.
2. What evidence is there that MU would be any better off because of it?

[SCdem@MU]

I was a math major .   I am not a writer and don't care about spacing  .    My grammar is correct and believe the content of my message is more important    . You are a bit too anal sir or madam    .  If you read the prior posts ,      many more examples of more qualified coaches were mentioned   .

I think we discovered who ghost writer is for all those Nigerian prince email scams...

Mods, instead of adding a CAPTCHA image to block spam, can you add a spam filter that requires users to complete a basic math problem?

Somehow I doubt this five year old is a math major. It would be interesting to see if he/she could do basic addition and subtraction, let alone multiplication and division.  

I'd bet if you added that, we would never see a post from AlienWarrior again.

[ChicosBailBonds]

So had MU gone out and hired Jack Bennett would you have praised Cottingham for hiring an elite coach? I sorta doubt it.
And obviously UW didn't think Bo was an elite coach. Had they thought so, he wouldn't have been their (at best) Plan C after Majerus and Ben Braun turned them down.

No, I would not have applauded them.  But as UW-Madison has learned, he WAS an elite coach.  That's the point, don't let elite only be tied to what institution they are at.   Plenty of coaches at elite schools that aren't worth a squirt while others at lesser institutions that are better.  Again, you and I both know we could find examples until the cows come home to support either argument.  I was merely pointing out that "elite" coach doesn't have to be tied to major program, nor should it.

I've asked several of you a question that hasn't been answered, so let me try again.


If Tom Crean left the year prior to when he did, would Buzz Williams have been hired as head coach coming from New Orleans?  I think that's a fair question, yet no one has answered it.

[NavinRJohnson]

If Tom Crean left the year prior to when he did, would Buzz Williams have been hired as head coach coming from New Orleans?  I think that's a fair question, yet no one has answered it.

Given the circumstances under which Buzz came here, and the unusually high assistant salary, followed by what transpired last Spring, I would argue he was in fact effectively hired as head coach a year earlier - even if it was not presented as the succession plan at the time.

[SCdem@MU]

If Tom Crean left the year prior to when he did, would Buzz Williams have been hired as head coach coming from New Orleans?  I think that's a fair question, yet no one has answered it.

No. But assuming that we hired a coach that took a job with another school that year, I'm not sure who we would have hired from that bunch.

Our options probably would have been Tubby Smith, John Beilein, Brad Stevens and Rick Majerus part 2. Other than John Beilein, I don't really care for the other names on that list.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006-07_NCAA_Division_I_men%27s_basketball_season#Coaching_changes

[tower912]

But Bo was a gamble for UW.   A lifetime D3'r with only a few years at a mid-major.   Every coach is a gamble.   Lowery, Bennet (jr), Grant, would have been gambles.   Getting out of bed in the morning is a gamble.   In 3 years, we will have a pretty good idea whether Buzz pans out.   But what happens if after 3-5 years, he has a year like Brey or JT3 just had?   Are they lesser coaches because of this year?   Which is a bigger gamble, keeping them or replacing them after the year they had?   Were they 'elite' coaches a year ago but not now?    An amazing, crazy, fickle biz, this head coaching thing. 

[bma725]

If Tom Crean left the year prior to when he did, would Buzz Williams have been hired as head coach coming from New Orleans?  I think that's a fair question, yet no one has answered it.

C'mon now, you know the answer to that you don't need to continually ask it just make your point, we all get it.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Given the circumstances under which Buzz came here, and the unusually high assistant salary, followed by what transpired last Spring, I would argue he was in fact effectively hired as head coach a year earlier - even if it was not presented as the succession plan at the time.

That's not answering the question.  If Tom Crean had left two years ago instead of one year ago, would Buzz Williams (mid major head coach at New Orleans) have been hired, or better yet, even on the list of candidates?  I would argue....no.

[ChicosBailBonds]

C'mon now, you know the answer to that you don't need to continually ask it just make your point, we all get it.

Since no one answered it, I felt it needed to be asked again.  Some people here accuse some of us of not answering a question, I guess I figured if those same people are accusing they need to answer questons posed to them as well.

[ChicosBailBonds]

But Bo was a gamble for UW.   A lifetime D3'r with only a few years at a mid-major.   Every coach is a gamble.   Lowery, Bennet (jr), Grant, would have been gambles.   Getting out of bed in the morning is a gamble.   In 3 years, we will have a pretty good idea whether Buzz pans out.   But what happens if after 3-5 years, he has a year like Brey or JT3 just had?   Are they lesser coaches because of this year?   Which is a bigger gamble, keeping them or replacing them after the year they had?   Were they 'elite' coaches a year ago but not now?    An amazing, crazy, fickle biz, this head coaching thing. 

Agreed, all hires are a gamble and a risk, no question about it.  So far, this gamble has paid off.  Let's hope in yeasr 2-5 it continues.