does anyone know the rule?

[mubball2009]

your ''question'' means nothing. you don't need a wrist to play d, obviously. your question calls into question whether or not he was ever hurt, which means the coach strategically subbed out a 76 percent shooter for a cold on the bench 68 percent freshman. I don't know if u play basketball or not, but if you are indeed shooting the lights out, what happens if you don't shoot again for 90 minutes? is it magically always going to be there? no. hot shooters stay hot by shooting, not by scoring 0 in the 2nd half. at that point in the game he was a subpar shooting freshman.

[MizzouAstro]

mizzou,

English was having a great game, that's why he was picked. I'm sure there was a better percentage shooter on the bench that could have gone in, but English had the hot hand, why not go to him? Tiller had already missed two free throws during the game (4 for 6).

The rule needs to be changed to avoid these types of situations. If Tiller actually missed any game time, I doubt most here would even be upset.

English being the hot hand was definitely the reason they picked him, though honestly, we're a pretty poor FT shooting team so the only player I can think of on the bench with a better percentage would be Miguel Paul, another freshman who had played 3 minutes all game and his percentage would only be marginally better if its better at all. I can see some cause to change the rule. It would be pretty cheap to sub Tiller out then call a TO, to get him back in. That wasn't the case this time as Buzz is the one who called the TO to set up the inbounds play.  Since it was a wrist injury, Tiller was able to come back, because he doesn't need his wrist to play D. If we had been on offense, he wouldn't have come back in.

[mizzousteve]

mizzou,

English was having a great game, that's why he was picked. I'm sure there was a better percentage shooter on the bench that could have gone in, but English had the hot hand, why not go to him? Tiller had already missed two free throws during the game (4 for 6).

The rule needs to be changed to avoid these types of situations. If Tiller actually missed any game time, I doubt most here would even be upset.

That's fair. I don't dispute what you say about the rule. Perhaps the NBA rule which I believe allows the opposing coach to select the FT shooter would be a better solution.

[Jay Bee]

your elitist because you call into question the character and coach of a team for no reason.

  I do not own or possess an 'elitist'.  You're obviously not a Marquette student or alum, but I appreciate the pseudo-support you provide.

  Both to you and mizzousteve, 1) please answer my injury question - was there something [i.e. injury status] that changed in those few moments between the foul and Tiller checking back?  2) If not, would the following be acceptable: if DJ got fouled and we were worried about his FT shooting and/or had someone hot on the bench, and we said, 'hey,... he's got a bad foot.  each time he gets fouled, there's contact that is making it worse, so we'll probably put in a pinch-ft shooter.  DJ will just check right back in'  Sound good?

[mubball2009]

that is not the nba rule. the opposing coach picks the shooter if the shooter gets tossed. if you take this rule out and make it the opposing coaches decision, than every game winning layup will turn into a headhunt

[MizzouAstro]

  I do not own or possess an 'elitist'.  You're obviously not a Marquette student or alum, but I appreciate the pseudo-support you provide.

  Both to you and mizzousteve, 1) please answer my injury question - was there something [i.e. injury status] that changed in those few moments between the foul and Tiller checking back?  2) If not, would the following be acceptable: if DJ got fouled and we were worried about his FT shooting and/or had someone hot on the bench, and we said, 'hey,... he's got a bad foot.  each time he gets fouled, there's contact that is making it worse, so we'll probably put in a pinch-ft shooter.  DJ will just check right back in'  Sound good?

This isn't hard to figure out. The status change was the possession change. If we were on offense, he stays on the bench. We were on D, so he came in. To play D. Because you don't use your wrist for D. Thats the answer to your question. And its a fair, truthful, and honest answer.

[mubball2009]

jay bee, you r a unnatural carnal knowledgeing idiot. u just compared a 50 percent shooter to 76. use butler as an example, he shoots about the same. if butler had the bum foot, would buzz try and utilize that rule to the betterment if jimmy wasn't hurt? no, because he is a 76 percent free throw shooter. you are saying either or two things, the coach made the decision because he didn't trust a healthy triller (this means your an idiot) or you are saying that he was injured and should have been forced to shoot (in which case your an idiot)

[mizzousteve]

 I do not own or possess an 'elitist'.  You're obviously not a Marquette student or alum, but I appreciate the pseudo-support you provide.

  Both to you and mizzousteve, 1) please answer my injury question - was there something [i.e. injury status] that changed in those few moments between the foul and Tiller checking back?  2) If not, would the following be acceptable: if DJ got fouled and we were worried about his FT shooting and/or had someone hot on the bench, and we said, 'hey,... he's got a bad foot.  each time he gets fouled, there's contact that is making it worse, so we'll probably put in a pinch-ft shooter.  DJ will just check right back in'  Sound good?

1. Absolutely not. I think that is pretty clear. I doubt our training staff has a magical potion to make things better that quickly.

2. I think it would be hard to make the argument when you are talking about a nagging injury that wasn't obviously reaggravated on the previous play. As for the second part, I would have a problem if it happened multiple times. But of course that is not the situation that happened today.

[mubball2009]

talk about classless...I wouldn't be too pumped about a win that came from an injury. we fouled in a tie game with 5 seconds left. that is game over right there. ya, we would have had a better chance if he got injured and had to shoot. pretty classy way to win

[Jay Bee]

1. Absolutely not. I think that is pretty clear. I doubt our training staff has a magical potion to make things better that quickly.

  Fair enough - then this is where we disagree.  You are OK with subbing in a hot shooter because a guy's wrist is bothering him.  I am not.  I am OK with subbing in someone from the bench if a guy CANNOT PLAY.  I think* you're saying that the sub was solely for purposes of putting a someone on the line with a better chance to convert free throws.  Not because an injured player couldn't play.  

  Classless.

[MizzouAstro]

  Fair enough - then this is where we disagree.  You are OK with subbing in a hot shooter because a guy's wrist is bothering him.  I am not.  I am OK with subbing in someone from the bench if a guy CANNOT PLAY.  I think* you're saying that the sub was solely for purposes of putting a someone on the line with a better chance to convert free throws.  Not because an injured player couldn't play. 

  Classless.

Clueless.

[ultimate]

While it's hard to argue that this cost us the game....my curiosity took over.

Not sure exactly if I'm readying this properly, but to me this is telling me that the game clock needs to tick before a substitute can re-enter the game.

Art. 13. A player who has been withdrawn or replaced by a substitute may re-enter the game at the next opportunity to substitute, provided that the game clock has been properly started after the withdrawal or replacement.

[MizzouAstro]

While it's hard to argue that this cost us the game....my curiosity took over.

Not sure exactly if I'm readying this properly, but to me this is telling me that the game clock needs to tick before a substitute can re-enter the game.

Art. 13. A player who has been withdrawn or replaced by a substitute may re-enter the game at the next opportunity to substitute, provided that the game clock has been properly started after the withdrawal or replacement.

My understanding is that either the clock must start and stop on a dead ball, or some other appropriate subbing time must come along, such as the TO Buzz took after English's FTs.

[Jay Bee]

My understanding is that either the clock must start and stop on a dead ball, or some other appropriate subbing time must come along, such as the TO Buzz took after English's FTs.

  Tiller could physically play in the basketball game and Missouri wanted him to, except for shooting free throws -- thus, they had someone else shoot free throws for him and then wanted to (and did) get him back into the game immediately.   -- I believe this is where you stand.  Is the above accurate?

[MizzouAstro]

  Tiller could physically play in the basketball game and Missouri wanted him to, except for shooting free throws -- thus, they had someone else shoot free throws for him and then wanted to (and did) get him back into the game immediately.   -- I believe this is where you stand.  Is the above accurate?

Tiller was physically able to play defense. He was not physically able to shoot. You cannot shoot with an injured shooting wrist.

[Jay Bee]

Tiller was physically able to play defense. He was not physically able to shoot. You cannot shoot with an injured shooting wrist.

  I may be leanings more towards this being a sh1tty rule vs. classless on missouri's part.  Thanks for hanging in with my rants and good luck the rest of the way. 

[MizzouAstro]

  I may be leanings more towards this being a sh1tty rule vs. classless on missouri's part.  Thanks for hanging in with my rants and good luck the rest of the way. 

Appreciate it. I understand your frustration, it was a hard fought game for certain. Hopefully you guys have success next year.

[mizzousteve]

Appreciate it. I understand your frustration, it was a hard fought game for certain. Hopefully you guys have success next year.

I echo MizzouAstro's sentiments. I wish Marquette the best of luck in the future and with Buzz at the helm I'm sure you'll continue to have outstanding teams.

[Lennys Tap]

Any rule that allows the coach to choose the free throw shooter after an "injury" is flawed. If the opposing coach got to choose the shooter, almost all of these "injured" players would shoot for themselves. I'm sure that's what would have happened today. That said, nobody "cheated". Mizzou and Anderson used the rulebook to sub a player with fresh legs who couldn't miss today for a guy who was shaken up and gassed. Under the same circumstances, many, probably most, coaches would do the same thing. Good luck to the Tigers vs Memphis.

[rocky_warrior]

Tiller was physically able to play defense. He was not physically able to shoot. You cannot shoot with an injured shooting wrist.

I hate to draw this debate out more, but imagine if this happened with 4 minutes left on the clock.  As soon as Tiller came back in, Marquette could foul him every time.  The ONLY reason he could come back at all in the game was because there was essentially only a single defensive possession left. 

If there were *real* time left he wouldn't have seen the court again - because you can't guarantee a stoppage in play to make the desired substitutions.

The fact that he came back in, means that Missouri was willing to risk him playing on offense.  If that's the case, he should have been required (note: I didn't say able) to shoot the FTs.

Nonetheless - congrats.  Your guys played well today, and I thank you for participating respectfully in discussion here.   Best of luck in your remaining games.

[GGGG]

While it's hard to argue that this cost us the game....my curiosity took over.

Not sure exactly if I'm readying this properly, but to me this is telling me that the game clock needs to tick before a substitute can re-enter the game.

Art. 13. A player who has been withdrawn or replaced by a substitute may re-enter the game at the next opportunity to substitute, provided that the game clock has been properly started after the withdrawal or replacement.

I think the issue on the game clock means that they can't sub for the shooter like they normally can after a missed FT.

[BrewCity83]

1)  According to Rosiak in today's MJS, Tiller attempted to return to the game immediately following the free throws and was denied re-entry by the officials.

2)  Basketball is not football, where you have an "offense" and a "defense" on the field/court at a given time.  Either you are physically able to PLAY THE GAME, or you are not.

3)  This is not why we lost.  It just smells bad.

[bball is life]

I did some research and it turns out that Tiller has been hurt since mid season. He ran into a brick wall in Austin, Texas named Pittman. After watching the game 3 times I realize that Tiller knocked down two free throws about a minute before he went out. So I looked at their team stats, and Tiller is the best free throw shooter on the team (by the stats). Even though he is known for his defense he can shoot free throws. It seems like just a bad turn of events. A freshman should be that calm.

[rickd24]

I know that this is an old thread, but I just came across it when Googling for something else.

For all of you Marquette fans that think that Tiller was faking the injury, I thought you should know that he had surgery on his bad wrist.  I'm guessing he didn't do it just to prove to the doubters here that he wasn't faking it.

http://www.columbiatribune.com/news/2009/apr/08/tiller-undergoing-wrist-surgery/

[reinko]

Thanks! 

I was losing sleep the last 3 weeks about whether Tiller was faking that whole wrist injury thing!