Author Topic: does anyone know the rule? (Read 12743 times)

mizzousteve · « **Reply #25 on:** March 22, 2009, 09:54:27 PM »

Quote from: Jay Bee on March 22, 2009, 07:57:58 PM

BTW, I think "Kim" English scored 15 points off the bench in the first half. His career high was 16. He had zero points in the second half until Missouri faked an injury to get him and his hot hand on the line. He finished with 17... 16 and 17 which #1 gave him his career high, #2 were his only points of the second half, and #3 were ill-gotten by Missouri's Tiller and their coaching staff being disgraceful, unsportsmanlike scumbags.

I'm shocked this isn't an issue to more folks.

Tiller reinjured his wrist on that play. He could only play on D. If there had been an OT we would have had to continually sub offense for defense because he couldn't bend his wrist. Why would you fake an injury for your team's most clutch performer and insert a freshman who is a 68 percent FT shooter?

Norm · « **Reply #26 on:** March 22, 2009, 10:07:36 PM »

mizzousteve,

The thing that bothered me most about the play was how quickly Tiller ran to the scorers table to get back in the game - almost immediately after the free throws were made. That demonstrates to me that Missouri took him out on purpose to have English take the free throws. If you can play defense, you can shoot free throws. Not a very sportsmanlike move by Missouri if you ask me.

Jay Bee · « **Reply #27 on:** March 22, 2009, 10:17:10 PM »

Tiller is a crappy shooter - he's about 12% from three point range. I don't know the emotional makeup of him vs. English, but clearly Missouri preferred to have English, who was undoubtedly 'feeling it', at the line vs. Tiller. So they used the (bad?) rules to their advantage.

It was a gutless, wuss move and I am sickened by the prospect of having to share the court again with such a disgraceful organization.

mubball2009 · « **Reply #28 on:** March 22, 2009, 10:23:55 PM »

wow, really? show some class. maybe we shouldn't have played matador defense and fouled a dude in a tie game with 5 seconds left.

u think any bball player would pass that shot up. and to reiterate the obvious, tiller was a better free throw shooter and isn't a freshman. with a 4 pt lead with 100 seconds left, all we had to do was get 1 stop or 1 bucket to win. we couldn't do either.

mizzousteve · « **Reply #29 on:** March 22, 2009, 10:27:39 PM »

Quote from: Jay Bee on March 22, 2009, 10:17:10 PM

Tiller is a crappy shooter - he's about 12% from three point range. I don't know the emotional makeup of him vs. English, but clearly Missouri preferred to have English, who was undoubtedly 'feeling it', at the line vs. Tiller. So they used the (bad?) rules to their advantage.

It was a gutless, wuss move and I am sickened by the prospect of having to share the court again with such a disgraceful organization.

Tiller wasn't going to be shooting a Free Three Point shot, he was going to be shooting a Free Throw. You take out a 75 percent guy to put in Kimmie who shoots FTs at a 68 percent clip. Tiller was 4 of 6 at the line today while English hadn't attempted a free throw and was cold sitting on the bench. Ask any Mizzou fan who you had rather have at the free throw line an uninjured JT Tiller or Kimmie English and all of them are going to say Tiller. Truthfully I am absolutely floored that this is an issue and beyond that I am even more stunned yet (if that is possible) that people are calling our players and our coach gutless.

Jay Bee · « **Reply #30 on:** March 22, 2009, 10:28:41 PM »

Quote from: mubball2009 on March 22, 2009, 10:23:55 PM

wow, really? show some class. maybe we shouldn't have played matador defense and fouled a dude in a tie game with 5 seconds left.

Show some class? Coming from you? Get real. It's OK, I was a young boy once too. I am simply calling Missouri on what they did. I'm not commenting on the rest of the game and what we should or should not have done to 'dudes'.

It seems you're trying to rationalize the argument that Missouri wanted Tiller to shoot based on his season FT % and being a junior - this is an extremely shortsighted analysis and completely wrong. They wanted Kim English on the line, so they used a bad rule to their advantage.

Jay Bee · « **Reply #31 on:** March 22, 2009, 10:29:32 PM »

Quote from: mizzousteve on March 22, 2009, 10:27:39 PM

Tiller wasn't going to be shooting a Free Three Point shot, he was going to be shooting a Free Throw. You take out a 75 percent guy to put in Kimmie who shoots FTs at a 68 percent clip. Tiller was 4 of 6 at the line today while English hadn't attempted a free throw and was cold sitting on the bench. Ask any Mizzou fan who you had rather have at the free throw line an uninjured JT Tiller or Kimmie English and all of them are going to say Tiller. Truthfully I am absolutely floored that this is an issue and beyond that I am even more stunned yet (if that is possible) that people are calling our players and our coach gutless.

What was Tiller's injury?

MizzouAstro · « **Reply #32 on:** March 22, 2009, 10:31:35 PM »

Jay Bee... you need to chill out dude.

Who are you to question Tiller's sportsmanship? The kid is the heart and soul of Mizzou. There isn't a human on earth that would be less likely to fake an injury than JT Tiller. He is the most clutch FT shooter on Mizzou and neither me nor Mike Anderson would rather have anyone else shooting FTs at the end of the game then him.

Try watching more than one Mizzou game all year before you start making sweeping judgments that couldn't be more false. Mike Anderson is as classy and upstanding a coach as there is in college bball and he doesn't stand for anything else (see last season when he suspended 5 mizzou scholarship players for a key Big 12 game (and Tiller was one of 6 scholarship players who wasn't suspended, because he is fantastic kid) after they were involved in a bar fight.) I understand the loss was a tough one to swallow, and props to your team for playing hard the whole way and giving us a great game, but you need to cut the unprovoked insults.

MizzouAstro · « **Reply #33 on:** March 22, 2009, 10:33:34 PM »

and Tiller hurt his wrist BTW. He couldn't bend it, and thus couldn't shoot. You don't need your wrist to play defense, so after there was a time out, he subbed back in legally to play defense. He was seen icing his swollen wrist as he was getting on the plane back to Missouri.

Jay Bee · « **Reply #34 on:** March 22, 2009, 10:35:23 PM »

Quote from: MizzouAstro on March 22, 2009, 10:31:35 PM

Jay Bee... you need to chill out dude.

Who are you to question Tiller's sportsmanship? The kid is the heart and soul of Mizzou. There isn't a human on earth that would be less likely to fake an injury than JT Tiller. He is the most clutch FT shooter on Mizzou and neither me nor Mike Anderson would rather have anyone else shooting FTs at the end of the game then him.

Try watching more than one Mizzou game all year before you start making sweeping judgments that couldn't be more false. Mike Anderson is as classy and upstanding a coach as there is in college bball and he doesn't stand for anything else (see last season when he suspended 5 mizzou scholarship players for a key Big 12 game (and Tiller was one of 6 scholarship players who wasn't suspended, because he is fantastic kid) after they were involved in a bar fight.) I understand the loss was a tough one to swallow, and props to your team for playing hard the whole way and giving us a great game, but you need to cut the unprovoked insults.

  Then why did he leave the game? For zero seconds? Your coach says, "once he came over and sat down, he is that kind of guy who wants to get back in there." Why did he come out in the first place?

  Missouri is a very good team. They beat us. Good luck the rest of the way. But, I don't see 'heart and soul' players in the most important time of the game come out of the game, just to sit out for a few seconds (er.. zero seconds on the clock) and hop back in.
  Then again, I didn't expect DJ to be back in action so maybe there were just multiple injury miracles working here.

Jay Bee · « **Reply #35 on:** March 22, 2009, 10:37:33 PM »

Quote from: MizzouAstro on March 22, 2009, 10:33:34 PM

and Tiller hurt his wrist BTW. He couldn't bend it, and thus couldn't shoot. You don't need your wrist to play defense, so after there was a time out, he subbed back in legally to play defense. He was seen icing his swollen wrist as he was getting on the plane back to Missouri.

Like I said, to me, Missouri took advantage of a BAD RULE. If you're going to be on the court to play defense, then you shouldn't use some 'I'm hurt' exception to avoid shooting free throws. That's classless to me. If you're going to play the guy on D, then don't take him out when he gets fouled. That's gutless. Either play or don't.

MizzouAstro · « **Reply #36 on:** March 22, 2009, 10:38:02 PM »

Have you ever tried to shoot with a sprained/broken wrist? Its physically impossible. Why hurt your team by trying to shoot when you know you will miss? I guarantee you Anderson asked him what he wanted to do. He took himself out for the betterment of the team. Its called being a team player. Something you obviously don't understand.

Jay Bee · « **Reply #37 on:** March 22, 2009, 10:40:06 PM »

Quote from: MizzouAstro on March 22, 2009, 10:38:02 PM

Have you ever tried to shoot with a sprained/broken wrist? Its physically impossible. Why hurt your team by trying to shoot when you know you will miss? I guarantee you Anderson asked him what he wanted to do. He took himself out for the betterment of the team. Its called being a team player. Something you obviously don't understand.

Yeah, great argument. "guys, I am only good on defense. ... so, if I get fouled, let's have the hot shooter step on the court with 5 seconds left and drill the shots. I'll get right back out there after, cause my defense is solid yo!"

MizzouAstro · « **Reply #38 on:** March 22, 2009, 10:40:14 PM »

you are a joke with this "gutless" crap. Whether or not the rule is good or bad is a different debate. The point is that it is a rule and I guarantee you if McNeal got hurt before FTs he would have gone out for someone who could have a better shot of making them. And in turn, he would have wanted to get back in the game as quickly as possible. "Taking advantage" of a rule that is on the books. Give me a break.

Norm · « **Reply #39 on:** March 22, 2009, 10:40:39 PM »

Mizzou,

You can't understand why this is an issue on this board? Imagine if the roles were reversed and Marquette did the same thing - you wouldn't be pissed?

Missouri took advantage of the rule. As an opposing fan, when the player that is supposedly too injured to shoot free throws immediately runs to the scorers table after the free throws are made to come back in the game, it leaves a sour taste in your mouth.

Why do you think the crowd was booing after Missouri did it?

mizzousteve · « **Reply #40 on:** March 22, 2009, 10:41:06 PM »

Quote from: Jay Bee on March 22, 2009, 10:37:33 PM

Like I said, to me, Missouri took advantage of a BAD RULE. If you're going to be on the court to play defense, then you shouldn't use some 'I'm hurt' exception to avoid shooting free throws. That's classless to me. If you're going to play the guy on D, then don't take him out when he gets fouled. That's gutless. Either play or don't.

Look I'm not a huge fan of the rule myself. I understand it if you too feel the same way but to call our guys gutless or classless is incredibly over the top.

mubball2009 · « **Reply #41 on:** March 22, 2009, 10:43:47 PM »

jay bee, you are an elitist piece of garbage and I am embarassed you are on this board. you are convinced that mizzou was dying to have kim english on the line, yet they didn't even bother to have him in a tie game with 15 seconds left. what if dj went up strong and hurt his foot? I have can't believe how strongly you are against a basketball rule that everyone has played with for years. should the shot clock be down to 20 seconds too?

to reiterate. you=garbage. we blew a 4 point lead. get over it.

MizzouAstro · « **Reply #42 on:** March 22, 2009, 10:44:36 PM »

Sure it would leave a sour taste. As I said earlier, its tough way to lose. But what I'm reading is more like sour grapes then a sour taste. A rule is a rule is a rule. During a tough game like this one, you have to do what you have to do to when. If it was flipped, Marquette would have done the same thing, sure, it'd be tough to swallow.

Jay Bee · « **Reply #43 on:** March 22, 2009, 10:45:56 PM »

Quote from: mizzousteve on March 22, 2009, 10:41:06 PM

Look I'm not a huge fan of the rule myself. I understand it if you too feel the same way but to call our guys gutless or classless is incredibly over the top.

Why did your heart and soul of the team player not shoot the free throws, but then go right back into the game, zero seconds later? Did the wrist heal up, or was it purely because Missouri felt his defense was beneficial but his free throw shooting was detrimental to the team? I am seeing you argue that he only left the floor because his shooting was bad, but came back on the court because the d was good.

If that is indeed what you are saying, in my book that is classless. Don't put in your hot shooter citing an injury when the reality is you're using a bad rule to help your team win.

mizzousteve · « **Reply #44 on:** March 22, 2009, 10:47:07 PM »

Quote from: Norm on March 22, 2009, 10:40:39 PM

Mizzou,

You can't understand why this is an issue on this board? Imagine if the roles were reversed and Marquette did the same thing - you wouldn't be pissed?

Missouri took advantage of the rule. As an opposing fan, when the player that is supposedly too injured to shoot free throws immediately runs to the scorers table after the free throws are made to come back in the game, it leaves a sour taste in your mouth.

Why do you think the crowd was booing after Missouri did it?

I wouldn't have an issue if someone got injured. Furthermore, I certainly wouldn't be upset if the opposition actually helped my team by subbing in a frosh who is a poor FT shooter.

mubball2009 · « **Reply #45 on:** March 22, 2009, 10:48:40 PM »

why is nobody mentioning that it was a tie game and they needed to make one? he makes 1, game over. he misses both, we go to overtime. marquette lowered their chance of winning by fouling, it didn't matter who shot the free throws. my grandma could hit 1 out of 2 free throws. I'm upset this is becoming the biggest story of the game.

MizzouAstro · « **Reply #46 on:** March 22, 2009, 10:49:31 PM »

Quote from: Jay Bee on March 22, 2009, 10:45:56 PM

Why did your heart and soul of the team player not shoot the free throws, but then go right back into the game, zero seconds later? Did the wrist heal up, or was it purely because Missouri felt his defense was beneficial but his free throw shooting was detrimental to the team? I am seeing you argue that he only left the floor because his shooting was bad, but came back on the court because the d was good.

If that is indeed what you are saying, in my book that is classless. Don't put in your hot shooter citing an injury when the reality is you're using a bad rule to help your team win.

You are saying the same things over and over. And it still isn't a valid argument. If doing what it takes within the rules to win a NCAA tourney game is "classless" then call Tom Izzo, Jim Boehiem, Jim Calhoun... any coach with a ring classless because they'd do the same thing.

Jay Bee · « **Reply #47 on:** March 22, 2009, 10:51:26 PM »

All - here is my question:

Did the injury status change from just before the free throws to when Tiller checked back in?

If so, fine. If not, disgraceful.

mubball2009 are you going to change your name to 2010 next year, or is this it? Why are you calling me an 'elitist'? Because I pointed out that you're obviously a young kid?

mubball2009 · « **Reply #48 on:** March 22, 2009, 10:58:42 PM »

your elitist because you call into question the character and coach of a team for no reason. if u were the coach and ur kid was hurt, would u ''take the high road'' and tell him to shoot? bullcrap.

if not, then are you claiming that he was never actually hurt and that it was a strategic move to replace 76 percent with a 68 percent freshman.

you don't even know what u are saying. you are a little kid who knows he is mad, but not sure why. talk about the blown defense that lead to the foul.

Norm · « **Reply #49 on:** March 22, 2009, 10:59:38 PM »

mizzou,

English was having a great game, that's why he was picked. I'm sure there was a better percentage shooter on the bench that could have gone in, but English had the hot hand, why not go to him? Tiller had already missed two free throws during the game (4 for 6).

The rule needs to be changed to avoid these types of situations. If Tiller actually missed any game time, I doubt most here would even be upset.

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Author Topic: does anyone know the rule? (Read 12743 times)