Thoughts on Coach Crean

[SoCalwarrior]

Crean has been an incredible hire.  He has elevated the program to heights that most of us Dukiet, O'Neil and Dean era fans only dreamed about.   IMHO, the things he does well makes him well worth the money.  As far as the things he gets criticized for, at least on the boards, I think he's showing a lot of improvement.  Two aspects in particular

1. X's and O's.  I still think he tends to over coach when we have a descent lead or are within striking distance.  This team should be running, gunning and playing balls to the wall D.  We just don't execute that well in our half court offense.  Seton Hall's comeback was a classic example of trying to take the air out of the ball WAY too early.  With that said, he has beaten a bunch of ranked teams this year.  Has beaten a few hall of famers.  And has done most of his damage on the road in arguably the toughest conference.

2. Player development.  This has always been my biggest concern.  I'll admit that a fan's expectations for a player's development is probably unrealistic, but I was sometimes frustrated with the lack of improvement from certain players.  However, seeing Barro develop into the player he is today has changed my mind.   While Crean probably doesn't get enough credit for developing Wade, Diener and Novak into great players, he should be praised for turning coal into a diamond with Barro.

Thoughts on Crean?

[Nukem2]

As for the first item, I agree that TC does often go into what ends up being a "prevent offense" far too early as we saw in the Final 4 year against Mizzou and Pitt.  But, then it often works to MU's favor.  Hard to criticize I guess; but, it does happen.  As for player development,  I think he does fine although staff turnover does impact that quite a bit as well.  In the end, I believe TC is an excellent collge head coach.  I'm sure one could critique any coach (including the great ones) and come up with a lot of crticisms.  Probably the harshest thing one can say about TC is the recruiting results over the 2002 to 2004 era as MU did get caught short-handed (although DW's early departure and TD's injuries impacted the 03-04 and 04-05 season quite a bit).  In the end, I give TC a grade of A- or B+.

[State]

I give TC a grade of A- or B+.

Didn't you go to MU??  It is A or AB or B...no + or -  which I always thought was odd.

Sorry, that was way of topic...just not in a discussion mood but needed a break from the grind.

However, great post (as usual) SoCalwarior!!

[RawdogDX]

Crean has been an incredible hire.  He has elevated the program to heights that most of us Dukiet, O'Neil and Dean era fans only dreamed about.   IMHO, the things he does well makes him well worth the money.  As far as the things he gets criticized for, at least on the boards, I think he's showing a lot of improvement.  Two aspects in particular

1. X's and O's.  I still think he tends to over coach when we have a descent lead or are within striking distance.  This team should be running, gunning and playing balls to the wall D.  We just don't execute that well in our half court offense.  Seton Hall's comeback was a classic example of trying to take the air out of the ball WAY too early.  With that said, he has beaten a bunch of ranked teams this year.  Has beaten a few hall of famers.  And has done most of his damage on the road in arguably the toughest conference.

2. Player development.  This has always been my biggest concern.  I'll admit that a fan's expectations for a player's development is probably unrealistic, but I was sometimes frustrated with the lack of improvement from certain players.  However, seeing Barro develop into the player he is today has changed my mind.   While Crean probably doesn't get enough credit for developing Wade, Diener and Novak into great players, he should be praised for turning coal into a diamond with Barro.

Thoughts on Crean?

I don't get it. why are you down on a guy who did fantastic jobs on 4 guys.  Don't you think he did the same thing for the others?  Don't you think he would have done great things with ODB? I think people who don't develop are hitting a celing they would have hit with most coaches.

[Nukem2]

State, I graduated in '68.  We had +'s and -'s in those days.  Do they do it differently now?

[AlumKCof93]

In light of this latest run, I've been thinking of Crean and realizing how good he has been at MU.  When he took over from Dean, the cupboard was bare but he did a good job with what he had.  I was a huge fan of his at the time and of course everyone was when D-wade exploded on the scene.  Following the Final Four appearance, I've been down on him not just b/c of our won/loss record, but the transfers and the coaching turnover have made me question the state of the program.  But last years team and seeing the team come together as a team and the development not just of Barro but also Matthews and others have made me realize that even with the concerns I have, we are lucky to have him.  I don't think I'd rather have any other coach in the Big East.

[Big Papi]

I personally can't think of too many coaches I would rather have represent MU than Tom Crean.  Some on these boards will never give him his due until he wins back to back to back championships, or so it seems but I think he has elevated this program to a higher level that I never thought we would ever reach again.  The MU job was a stepping stone program for just about every coach out there until Tom showed up.  I know Deane would have stayed here forever but he was content on having a mediocre program with little attendence.  Tom just gets it.  He expects his players to win but he also expects them to graduate, be respectful and be upstanding citizens in any community and all of that reflects very well towards MU.  Yes, Tom is not perfect as he does make mistakes but who is perfect?

In the words of the immortal Ron Burgandy with a slight deviation - Stay classy MU!

[maxpower773]

State, I graduated in '68.  We had +'s and -'s in those days.  Do they do it differently now?

I know I'm not state, but an answer is an answer...They do grades by A, AB, B, BC and so on now....no +'s or-'s

[rocky_warrior]

State, I graduated in '68.  We had +'s and -'s in those days.  Do they do it differently now?

I know I'm not state, but an answer is an answer...They do grades by A, AB, B, BC and so on now....no +'s or-'s

And it's been that way at least since '93....

Back on topic - I think we've seen TC mature a lot at MU.  He's always been a good motivator (I credit that to his psychology minor...) but he's becoming a better developer and coach.  I also think he realizes more now where he does need assistance, and then brings in the assistant coach talent that the team needs to succeed.

In recruiting, he's learned how to build a team, and keep bringing in talent to fill the existing, or expected holes.  Now, Marquette isn't always able to get the talent that they want, but that's not for lack of trying.  His ability to recruit and bring in quality people has been very impressive.  Having a successful AND mature (read: clean) team is a difficult task to accomplish.

[WashDCWarrior]

State, I graduated in '68.  We had +'s and -'s in those days.  Do they do it differently now?

I know I'm not state, but an answer is an answer...They do grades by A, AB, B, BC and so on now....no +'s or-'s

From experience, there is no DF.  If you get lower than a D, you fail.   

[StillAWarrior]

And it's been that way at least since '93....

...at least since 87...

[tonyreeder]

I agree on the prevent offense.  However, I'm not sure that was the case last night.   Marquette was pushing the ball all night they just had a stretch where they missed some front ends, played some pretty crappy defense and  Seton Hall hit some pretty tough shots.

[MarquetteDano]

Overall,  I am quite happy with Crean.  I guess I break it down like this...

Marketing/Status of Program- how could anyone complain?  We are in a Top 6 conference, sell out games, get more mentions in the media than ever before (well, except for the 70's perhaps).

X/O's- probably the area I most concerned with Crean;  but he is so young;  it is just going to improve;  he definitely overcoaches and his half-court sets have left his own teams very confused on what to do at times.

Development- quite happy in this area; players, for the most part, have done nothing but improve under Crean.  I don't know why people think he is poor in this area.

Recruiting- very happy as well;  we had some weaker classes but we have had some fantastic classes; we are not going to have Top 10 classes year in and year out and that's okay.

Integrity- still undecided here;  I have to give Crean the benefit of the doubt;  outside of the transfers, nothing points to anything suspicious going on;  players are graduating and problem kids haven't been allowed to stay around.

Results- hard to complain; you can throw out his first two years since it wasn't his teams; since then, I think there was one team that truly disappointed me (Diener's senior year); outside of that, very good results.

[COS98]

1980 or 1981 I think.  Majerus gave me a C/D in his course on Coaching Basketball and I asked him to reconsider so he gave me an F/U.  Rick was actually very interesting and kind in his grading for that critical core class.

[77ncaachamps]

A coach is only as good as...

...his assistants with whom the daily routines are entrusted.

...the players he recruits who must meet and exceed the expectations placed upon them.

...the university that supports him.

...the fans may think of him. 

Therefore...Crean is a GREAT coach!

[CTWarrior]

I was a freshman in 79-80 school year, and it was AB BC etc then.

As far as Crean is concerned, since Al McGuire, the only coach who left the program in better shape than he found it was Kevin O'Neill.  I thought O'Neill had positioned us to be fixtures in the top 25 year in and year out had he stayed.  This was after a decade of NIT if we're lucky basketball which had degraded to a 10-18 season and getting spanked by the likes of Iona and Fordham.  His recruiting classes were consistently very good.  On the other hand, his teams were brutal to watch, with their incessant walk it up half court game, and their pack it in, no gambling zone defense. 

Now, Crean took over a program that was in OK shape, though scheduled for a few lean years due to a few slow recruiting years from his predecessor, who was an excellent game coach and a disinterested recruiter.

Now look at us.  We sent a player to the NBA three of the last four years and have 3-4 current guys (James, McNeal, Matthews and Barro) who will at least get a look, though only James is sure to suit up in the NBA.  We have an exciting team that wins and plays hard.  We have a coach who goes out of his way to promote the school and outwardly gives every indication that he loves Marquette and has no desire to leave.  We have announcers saying after they meet with our players that if they had D-1 capable sons they would want them to play for our coach.  We made a freakin' FINAL FOUR!  I never thought I would see that!  We have top facilities.  What's not to like?  I guess a few more postseason wins in conference and NCAAs would be good, but he gets an A+ from me.  (Is that an AA in MU grading, or is there no such thing?  Believe me, I never threatened to get better than an A).

PS - I can't stand his prevent offense either and have been moaning about it five times a year on these boards since I knew they existed.  But if that is all their is to complain about, I'll take it every time.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Solid A, no question about it.


Kids graduate, we win 20 games a season, we compete in one of the top leagues in the country and compete WELL, we are mentioned with top recruits, facilities, etc.

Every coach fans have issues with on play calling or schemes or whatever.  A lot of times it's the players not following directions very well or adjusting to a learning curve.

To me, the fact he has been here 8 years and signed a 10 year extension is enough to get people excited. The turnover at coaching was brutal the previous 20 years and that had to stop.   HAD TO STOP.

Now it has and that is a great relief for all of us.  It means stability and growth.  I have no doubt we will have a few "down" years in the next 10 no different than every other major program but the level of "down" will not be anything like it was in the 1980's or 1990's.  In fact, I would be surprised if we ever have a losing season under Crean and expect on average we will continue on that same tract with some years exceeding what has become a "successful norm".

[downtown85]

Recruiting- very happy as well;  we had some weaker classes but we have had some fantastic classes; we are not going to have Top 10 classes year in and year out and that's okay.

I, too, am happy overall with the job TC has done.  However, I am not satisfied with his job that he has done recruiting, particularly regarding bigs.  IMO, in order to be in the mix for the upper echelon in the Big East year-in and year-out, we will need to recruit at least 2 "top 100" players per year and one or two "diamonds in the rough."   Also, the JC recruiting route is not a recipe for building a strong and stable program. TC, too often, is using the JC route as a stop gap for filling out the team.   2005 was a good recruiting year but 2006 and 2007 look like years where we got borderline top 100 players in Hayward and Mbakwe.  The rest of those classes are either development projects or mid-major level talent, IMO.  2008 is a critical year for re-loading since the big three (or more likely there will be only be two left at that time) will be graduating and there could be a dearth of talent.  Let's hope, along with Nick Williams, TC gets someone like JaMichael Green and another 4 or 5 star player to round out the class of 2008.  I am not optimistic given his recent track record but let's see.  He needs to stop behaving like we are a good Conference USA team and instead recruit like we are an upper echelon Big East team. 

[rocky_warrior]

I am not optimistic given his recent track record but let's see.  He needs to stop behaving like we are a good Conference USA team and instead recruit like we are an upper echelon Big East team. 

Wait! We are an upper echelon BE team, and these are all his recruits.  So I guess he's doing ok...  8)

[dwaderoy2004]

I think it's only a matter of tiem before we start sealing the deal on some of these recruits.  we get looks from a bunbch of top 100 kids, and usually 2 or 3 top 20 kids as well.  The program in a way had to re-establish itself as a top tier big east program in the eys of recruits.  we had a solid first season, and now we are backing it up this year.  it's hard to get recruits to choose us over uconn, cuse, pitt if they aren't sure we can compete.  i think we are proving we can...

[downtown85]

I think it's only a matter of tiem before we start sealing the deal on some of these recruits.  we get looks from a bunbch of top 100 kids, and usually 2 or 3 top 20 kids as well.  The program in a way had to re-establish itself as a top tier big east program in the eys of recruits.  we had a solid first season, and now we are backing it up this year.  it's hard to get recruits to choose us over uconn, cuse, pitt if they aren't sure we can compete.  i think we are proving we can...

You are right.  Maybe I am impatient.  Rome wasn't built in a day.  However, I would like to see MU mentioned as a choice of more top 100 kids on the recruiting services, particularly PFs and Centers.  MU and TC seem to do well at attracting guards but we are not really considered an option yet for legit forwards or centers.  That needs to change.  The simple fact almost everyone on this board longs for the days (a single season) when we had RJax proves a point.  He was a good player but by no means he is not the same caliber as some of the raw talent UConn, Syracuse, G'town recruit for their front line every year. Even Providence seems to have some legit players on their front line we could only dream of.  TC needs to concentrate on more than recruiting some good guards but we need to get a couple of legit 6'10" 250lb. (or bigger) monsters to patrol the paint. 

[downtown85]

I am not optimistic given his recent track record but let's see.  He needs to stop behaving like we are a good Conference USA team and instead recruit like we are an upper echelon Big East team. 

Wait! We are an upper echelon BE team, and these are all his recruits.  So I guess he's doing ok...  8)

I agree, this year we are upper echelon and I tip my hat to TC and his recruits.   However, you have to run just to stand still in the Big East.  No resting on your laurels.  You've got to make every recruting class count or you will quickly drop out of the upper echelon.  2008 will be critical. 

[murocky01]

I would argue that Crean has done an effective job in molding Barro into a force down low.  I didn't think I would ever end up saying that after watching him play as a freshman.  Despite his lanky build, he is pretty quick for a big guy and plays well within our up-tempo offense.  He also has a knack for hitting those shots WAY underneath the basket where defenders lose sight of him.  If Barro is able to continue to make strides in his game during this off-season, he could be a truly dominant player next year. 

That being said, Crean certainly needs to focus on bringing in some talent to replace Barro.  Burke has shown flashes of great play this year, but I don't know if he has as much of an upside as Barro did at the same point earlier in his career.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Trevor comes in with the highest recruiting accolades since Jackson and Merritt.  He should be a good one, but it always takes the bigs a bit longer to develop.  Patience.

[Marquette84]

I have to scratch my head over comments that suggest that Crean has to do something different recruiting-wise to be in the "top echelon" of the Big East. 

We were one of the top 4 teams last year, and arguably the best in conference right now.  Without the type of bigs that are being pined for.

And the teams WITH those bigs--most notably Georgetown--have underachived.

And yet, the comments seem to indicate that Crean should do something different with respect to recruiting bigs.  We should be more like Georgetown.  Or Providence.  Or St. Johns.

Sorry, but I don't see it--we're doing better than those teams--not worse.  Therefore better bigs aren't the secret to success. 

So why do we constantly see arguments that conlcude we can't be successful unless we recruit better bigs?