Thoughts on Coach Crean

[77ncaachamps]

As far as Crean is concerned, since Al McGuire, the only coach who left the program in better shape than he found it was Kevin O'Neill.  I thought O'Neill had positioned us to be fixtures in the top 25 year in and year out had he stayed. His recruiting classes were consistently very good.  On the other hand, his teams were brutal to watch, with their incessant walk it up half court game, and their pack it in, no gambling zone defense.

I agree. His defense and lackluster, no fastbreak offense could put anyone to sleep, but O'Neill's MU defenses were consistently in the top 10 in % fg defense  in the NCAA at year's end.

Now look at us.  We sent a player to the NBA three of the last four years and have 3-4 current guys (James, McNeal, Matthews and Barro) who will at least get a look, though only James is sure to suit up in the NBA. 

I disagree. Jerel would make a solid NBA pick. Though "undersized" (talent is NEVER undersized) for the NBA, he has the necessary skills to make a roster and stay as an energy boost from the bench: shooter, slasher, hustler, and most importantly, defender.

I have had people who aren't cbb but nba fans watch a few MU games.
It was McNeal...not DJ...who they thought was the most exciting to watch and the best NBA prospect.

[nycwarrior]

In my opinion TC has rescued a program that was teetering on the brink of obscurity and returned it to the threshhold of national significance.

Go back eight years. MU was a school who's most recent semi-interesting national run was a five-year-old run to the Sweet 16. After which our promising young coach bolted for the greener pastures of the SEC.

Our conference was a mid-Major plus. Certainly better than the "Great Midwest" but not on par with the Bigs that generate all the TV coverage and headlines.

Our Best players were shooters (Wardle) or smallish guards with heart. We overachieved when we won more than we lost with Cinci and Memphis.

Our practice facility had been an outdated dump since Majerus complained to the Jesuits that it was hurting recruiting.

Not sure how many of you guys lived outside of the Midwest at that point but in NYC no one under the age of 40 knew who Marquette was.

All of that being said, MU has always had passion for basketball. At least since McGuire, there's been a longing for the glory and the moxy that the program once brought to the city, the state and to Jesuit Catholic colleges. Marquette needed someone to step up and channel all that passion and potential.

Enter Tom Crean.

Hard working slick recruiter from MSU. Comes in with little head coaching experience but a good will to bust his butt and a good eye for potential. In my opinion, Crean's greatest gift is the ability to recognize and inspire kindred spirits. He saw something in cords and knew that when the time was right this was a guy who would do whatever it took to make things better. That is a very big deal.

And, this is very odd, but in a wierd way, I think Merritt was one of the first real lynchpins for Crean. As frustrating as Scott proved to be during his career, he was the first big time guy who took a chance on MU.

After him the decisions from Wade, Diener, Novak and then the lucky break of Robert Jackson's home sickness put the pieces in place for the Final Four squad.

While some of the recruiting classes after the Final Four weren't what many of us would have hoped, Crean leveraged the FF to build the Al. It took perfect timing but it changes everything. To go from that crappy dilapidated high school gym to a state-of-the-art facility. It just changes the way the school is able to present itself as a serious competitor.

In terms of player development, you've gotta hand it to Crean for backcourt players. He came in and Cordell got infinitely better. Diener improved vastly. Novak came leaps and bounds (I know he's 6'10 and played the 4 but let's not kid ourselves). Dwade went from a pretty good player to arguably the best in the country. This year's guys have also shown great improvement.

The one area that I'd say he was simply awful at coming into this year was developing big men. RJax was clearly the best big of the Crean era. Other than getting into much better shape, it's tough to argue whether the 13 and 8 he put up in the SEC were a whole lot less impressive than the 15 and 8 he put up in C-USA.

The aforementioned Merritt showed little development from Sophomore through senior year. Marcus Jackson never got better inside. Kinsella, hard to tell. Grimm never became a legit DI player and you'd have to argue that in other programs he would have become one of those guys good for 10 - 15 minutes a game.

That is until this year. Ooze's improvement is staggering. His ability to catch and finish in traffic has been a huge asset I never expected to see on this team.  Less obvious but also encouraging is the progress we're starting to see with Burke. He's not exactly filling up box scores but he is getting to the right places, making catches, getting a board here and there, and even occasionally finishing inside.

Agree with the other posters that in-game coaching has also shown significant improvement. He seems to have demanded that the team think its way out of some tough jams early and it's paying off now.

Sorry for the long post. Just been thinking about this for a while.

[muwarrior87]

Crean gets an A on my grading scale...(does it really matter if it's A/B or A+ or B-?!? jw

and I like that someone is able to point out how much Ous has improved under TC's coaching...it takes bigs a little longer to develop and i think he's been doing a great job...

there is no way i would change how crean recruits...the talent that he has brought in and the success achieved since being here should be proof enough that he's got a game plan and is executing pretty well w/ it. And to those who think we need more size, we are bringing in some pretty dominant post presences next year.

[82fanatic]

Rarely post, but thought I wanted to put in my 2 cents. 

First, went to MU fall 1977-1982.  Had +s and –s in the beginning, changed to A/B by graduation.  Think it changed in 1978. 

On the coaching front, have been a die hard MU fan since 2nd grade, around 1966 when my brother went to MU.  Cried when Rick mount did us in.... in 1968 I think.  For you young-ins, knocked us out of NCAA with last second shot from the corner, would have been a 3 ptr today. 

Loved Kevin O'neil.  Revived a dead program.  Thought he was lacking in coaching prowess, but felt he would learn as time went on.  In College game, all starts with recruiting, and he was a tireless recruiter that brought the program back from DEAD!!!!!!!!!!

Very disappointed when he left, and got angry when I heard people of my parents generation trashing him for "colorful" language.  Dean was a much better coach, but was a joke in recruiting.  Did not even try for top level people.  Very nice guy, but had to go. And give the "boring and dry"  Bill Cords major, I repeat, MAJOR  Kudo's for seeing it and taking action. 

I have always thought recruiting was an inborn talent that required passionate and obsessive dedication.  KO had it, and TC has it.  I also feel that TC was not the greatest game coach when he came to MU, and has made many mistakes.  But I always felt he was very bright and would learn coaching.  The X's and O's can be learned, the relating to the kids and recruiting I think is much more a gift that is nearly impossible to learn. 

TC is the kind of person I would love to have in my company!  His coaching has improved radically, and I believe it will continue.  Even though some may be frustrated that he has not improved fast enough, he is still improving.  Anyone who says he has not improved his coaching skills greatly during his MU time is disconnected with reality, and thus not credible!

TC  will be considered one of the "legends" before it is all done.  Hopefully he will be a legend at MU!!!!!

[downtown85]

I have to scratch my head over comments that suggest that Crean has to do something different recruiting-wise to be in the "top echelon" of the Big East. 

We were one of the top 4 teams last year, and arguably the best in conference right now.  Without the type of bigs that are being pined for.

And the teams WITH those bigs--most notably Georgetown--have underachived.

And yet, the comments seem to indicate that Crean should do something different with respect to recruiting bigs.  We should be more like Georgetown.  Or Providence.  Or St. Johns.

Sorry, but I don't see it--we're doing better than those teams--not worse.  Therefore better bigs aren't the secret to success. 

So why do we constantly see arguments that conlcude we can't be successful unless we recruit better bigs? 

First, let's talk about now.  Imagine if we had a player like Georgetown's Jeff Green (instead of Jamil Lott) on our team starting at the PF spot together with Ooze, plus our guards.  Where do you think we would be ranked?  My point is that you need excellent players at each position to make a run to the final four.

Second, let's talk about the future.  Our recruiting classes for 2006 and 2007 were mediocre for a Big East team and substandard for the upper echelon of the Big East.  IMO, we need to have 2008 be an outstanding recruiting class or we are all going to be disappointed with the development of the team, i.e., we will drop to a middle-of-the pack BE team like Seton Hall. 

Don't get me wrong.  I am very happy with the job TC has done.  I suppose his success has raised my expectations for the program.  I really want the program to be a consistent top-10 program, year-in and year-out.  Tell me if my expectations are too high.

[Murffieus]

If we were talking here after we were 0-2 to start the BE, the comments here would not be so flattering toward TC.

Having said that, Tom Crean is a good coach with a chance to become a great coach.

Gets high marks for recruiting, game prep, developing perimeter guys, fitting offensive schemes to talent at hand, and PR.

Gets lower marks for developing postups (Barro can't creat his own shot off a postup, after 3 years)-----tournament play (except when he had super star DW)-----defensive schemes (not good one on one defenders----particularily inside defense)----
and team perinneally fades down the stretch in the waning weeks of the season (practices too hard/long?).

[mviale]

Murf, bless your heart.  I could not have said that better!

[spiral97]

Don't get me wrong.  I am very happy with the job TC has done.  I suppose his success has raised my expectations for the program.  I really want the program to be a consistent top-10 program, year-in and year-out.

Not aimed at downtown85 specifically.. just a response to that general type of comment.. I agree in that I too really want the program to be a consistent top-X program, year-in and year out.  I just wonder that, WHEN we get to that point, our expectations will rise to "consistent top-5 program", and then to "consistent #1 program".  At some point, the expectations become simply unrealistic.  The questions is, where is that line -- what is a reasonable value of X?  I would probably say, for me, that it would be between 15 and 20.

[Big Papi]

If we were talking here after we were 0-2 to start the BE, the comments here would not be so flattering toward TC.

It would not be so flattering because there are a handful of posters who only show up when MU is down.  Now when we are winning they are nowhere to be found but at some point in time they will come back out of the woodwork like they always do.  

[Big Papi]

First, let's talk about now.  Imagine if we had a player like Georgetown's Jeff Green (instead of Jamil Lott) on our team starting at the PF spot together with Ooze, plus our guards.  Where do you think we would be ranked?  My point is that you need excellent players at each position to make a run to the final four.

Second, let's talk about the future.  Our recruiting classes for 2006 and 2007 were mediocre for a Big East team and substandard for the upper echelon of the Big East.  IMO, we need to have 2008 be an outstanding recruiting class or we are all going to be disappointed with the development of the team, i.e., we will drop to a middle-of-the pack BE team like Seton Hall. 

Yes sometimes I love to think about how good this team would be with Oden or Durant with the guys we have.   

Crean knows talent and has been in on some very good bigs until the end.  Unfortunately for whatever reason they decided some other university was better suited for them.  Its easy to say that I want or expect Crean to sign big time studs but up until now it has not been realistic.  When Crean first got the job here, he really didn't have too much to offer recruits other than playing time but somehow he was able to get a steal here or there and look at us now.  As far as getting bigs like Oden and Durant, Crean doesn't have a chance but maybe in time he will.  I view RobJax, Merritt and Barro as success stories.  Burke has potential to be solid, better than Sanders and Mbakwe better yet.

As far as the two recruiting classes you mention, I don't know how you can be upset with them.  They are far from substandard.  I mean saying substandard hints at.....uhmmm never mind.  Cubillan is a very good player, a steal and Hayward is starting and will get a lot better.  Next year, Mbakwe is a top 100 player, Christopherson is good and can shoot lights out and the rest have a lot of raw potential.  If things work out over the next couple of years, Crean could have an easier time recruiting bigs but it is dependent on Barro, Burke, Mbakwe, Saunders and Hazel.       

[🏀]

There is nothing wrong with the recruitng classes.

Imagne if SC kept on playing AAU ball? When he stopped he was a 5-star.

[tower912]

First, I think Crean has done a very good job.  No one is perfect, but if you compare us now as a program to where we were 10 years ago as a program.....I will definitely take today.   Second, let's look at Crean from the perspective of people who don't care as passionately about MU hoops as we all do.  The best way to do that is this.  Who wants him at their school?   Just recently, I started a thread about how bad the UK faithful want him.   His name has been bandied about for the Illinois, Indiana, Ohio St, Virginia, NC State jobs.   Pretty heady company.  All of those people apparently see a good coach.   Right now, his contract has priced him out of most schools' price range.   Yay for us.   I am glad we have him and hope we keep him for the length of his contract and beyond.

[downtown85]

Yes sometimes I love to think about how good this team would be with Oden or Durant with the guys we have.   

Crean knows talent and has been in on some very good bigs until the end.  Unfortunately for whatever reason they decided some other university was better suited for them.  Its easy to say that I want or expect Crean to sign big time studs but up until now it has not been realistic.  When Crean first got the job here, he really didn't have too much to offer recruits other than playing time but somehow he was able to get a steal here or there and look at us now.  As far as getting bigs like Oden and Durant, Crean doesn't have a chance but maybe in time he will.  I view RobJax, Merritt and Barro as success stories.  Burke has potential to be solid, better than Sanders and Mbakwe better yet.

As far as the two recruiting classes you mention, I don't know how you can be upset with them.  They are far from substandard.  I mean saying substandard hints at.....uhmmm never mind.  Cubillan is a very good player, a steal and Hayward is starting and will get a lot better.  Next year, Mbakwe is a top 100 player, Christopherson is good and can shoot lights out and the rest have a lot of raw potential.  If things work out over the next couple of years, Crean could have an easier time recruiting bigs but it is dependent on Barro, Burke, Mbakwe, Saunders and Hazel.       

I guess what I am saying is that the reason why we are where we are (which is a good place to be) is the 2005 recruiting class.  There were 3 top 100 guards in that class and a forward who was (and still is)  a project.   Since then we have gotten one borderline top 100 recruit each year (Hayward in 2006) and Mbakwe next year.  It seems to me every Big East team gets one top 100 recruit each year.   The upper echelon teams, UConn, Cuse, and now Pitt, seem to get 2 or 3 top 100 recruits each year. 

Another way to say it is this years recruiting class with Cube and Hayward and next year's recruiting class of Mbakwe and a couple of projects is not so bad for a ConfUSA team.  However, I think that unless we get some serious talent in 2008, we are not going to be challenging for the BE title for a couple of years after that.   

Enough said, I am enjoying this year.  Perhaps if we do some serious damage in post season play (which will raise MU's profile even further),  TC's recruiting job will only get that much easier and some top talent will be knocking on our door.   

[Big Papi]

Yes sometimes I love to think about how good this team would be with Oden or Durant with the guys we have.   

Crean knows talent and has been in on some very good bigs until the end.  Unfortunately for whatever reason they decided some other university was better suited for them.  Its easy to say that I want or expect Crean to sign big time studs but up until now it has not been realistic.  When Crean first got the job here, he really didn't have too much to offer recruits other than playing time but somehow he was able to get a steal here or there and look at us now.  As far as getting bigs like Oden and Durant, Crean doesn't have a chance but maybe in time he will.  I view RobJax, Merritt and Barro as success stories.  Burke has potential to be solid, better than Sanders and Mbakwe better yet.

As far as the two recruiting classes you mention, I don't know how you can be upset with them.  They are far from substandard.  I mean saying substandard hints at.....uhmmm never mind.  Cubillan is a very good player, a steal and Hayward is starting and will get a lot better.  Next year, Mbakwe is a top 100 player, Christopherson is good and can shoot lights out and the rest have a lot of raw potential.  If things work out over the next couple of years, Crean could have an easier time recruiting bigs but it is dependent on Barro, Burke, Mbakwe, Saunders and Hazel.       

I guess what I am saying is that the reason why we are where we are (which is a good place to be) is the 2005 recruiting class.  There were 3 top 100 guards in that class and a forward who was (and still is)  a project.   Since then we have gotten one borderline top 100 recruit each year (Hayward in 2006) and Mbakwe next year.  It seems to me every Big East team gets one top 100 recruit each year.   The upper echelon teams, UConn, Cuse, and now Pitt, seem to get 2 or 3 top 100 recruits each year. 

Another way to say it is this years recruiting class with Cube and Hayward and next year's recruiting class of Mbakwe and a couple of projects is not so bad for a ConfUSA team.  However, I think that unless we get some serious talent in 2008, we are not going to be challenging for the BE title for a couple of years after that.   

Enough said, I am enjoying this year.  Perhaps if we do some serious damage in post season play (which will raise MU's profile even further),  TC's recruiting job will only get that much easier and some top talent will be knocking on our door.   

What I am trying to say is that Crean is not to the point where he can walk into any recruits living room and get the recruit that he wants.  UConn and Syracuse and North Carolina, Duke, Florida can.  UW-Madison can in Wisconsin.  Top 100 bigs are a more rare commodity than guards and are much more difficult to get.  Unfortunately we are not a name elite school.  If Dom received a ship from Indiana, he would have never attended MU.  If Wade was moderately recruited by DePaul or Illinois, I would think that Wade probably would not have been here either(Depaul came in the game late I believe and it was too late).  Unfortunately, those are the players that Crean looks for.  Steals.  Barro is a steal.  Mbakwe is a borderline top 100 player and a potential steal.  Right now we need to recruit and develop bigs with good upsides.  I think we are on the right path.

Actually if you look at the number of top 100 recruits we have been getten over the last 5 plus years, I would say that our success rate has been pretty high compared to most other teams.  Also Hayward(2006), Mbakwe(2007 and Williams(2008) are all top 100 recruits so we are getting at least 1 a year.  Furhermore, I think that the players we have and the ones coming down the pipeline will keep us in the upper half of the Big East which is all you can really ask for.  Just look at UConn, great recruiting class and in danger of not making the Big East tourny.

[Big Papi]

Here is what our future conference USA talent recruits did at the border battle today courtesy of Mark Miller and wishoops.  Great info Mark.  You might have to cut and paste

http://www.wissports.net/wishoops/courtside/featurearticle.asp?fid=4&nid=13994

For those who don't:

Mbakwe scored 28 and had 10 boards against Randolph in a 73-64 victory and Christopherson had 26 points, 8 boards and 6 assists in the Aquinas 93-68 victory.

[RawdogDX]

If we were talking here after we were 0-2 to start the BE, the comments here would not be so flattering toward TC.

It would not be so flattering because there are a handful of posters who only show up when MU is down.  Now when we are winning they are nowhere to be found but at some point in time they will come back out of the woodwork like they always do.  

*cough* harison *cough*

[RawdogDX]

I guess what I am saying is that the reason why we are where we are (which is a good place to be) is the 2005 recruiting class.  There were 3 top 100 guards in that class and a forward who was (and still is)  a project.   Since then we have gotten one borderline top 100 recruit each year (Hayward in 2006) and Mbakwe next year.  It seems to me every Big East team gets one top 100 recruit each year.   The upper echelon teams, UConn, Cuse, and now Pitt, seem to get 2 or 3 top 100 recruits each year. 

Another way to say it is this years recruiting class with Cube and Hayward and next year's recruiting class of Mbakwe and a couple of projects is not so bad for a ConfUSA team.  However, I think that unless we get some serious talent in 2008, we are not going to be challenging for the BE title for a couple of years after that.   

Enough said, I am enjoying this year.  Perhaps if we do some serious damage in post season play (which will raise MU's profile even further),  TC's recruiting job will only get that much easier and some top talent will be knocking on our door.   

I think Crean has been able to get some great little guys because he's gotten others to the nba.  (seriously why wouldn't you want to play for a coach who got deiner to the nba?) Once he get's barro to the nba, after he's 2nd team all big east next year, then the high school bigs will take notice.

[downtown85]

What I am trying to say is that Crean is not to the point where he can walk into any recruits living room and get the recruit that he wants.  UConn and Syracuse and North Carolina, Duke, Florida can.  UW-Madison can in Wisconsin.  Top 100 bigs are a more rare commodity than guards and are much more difficult to get.  Unfortunately we are not a name elite school.  If Dom received a ship from Indiana, he would have never attended MU.  If Wade was moderately recruited by DePaul or Illinois, I would think that Wade probably would not have been here either(Depaul came in the game late I believe and it was too late).  Unfortunately, those are the players that Crean looks for.  Steals.  Barro is a steal.  Mbakwe is a borderline top 100 player and a potential steal.  Right now we need to recruit and develop bigs with good upsides.  I think we are on the right path.

Actually if you look at the number of top 100 recruits we have been getten over the last 5 plus years, I would say that our success rate has been pretty high compared to most other teams.  Also Hayward(2006), Mbakwe(2007 and Williams(2008) are all top 100 recruits so we are getting at least 1 a year.  Furhermore, I think that the players we have and the ones coming down the pipeline will keep us in the upper half of the Big East which is all you can really ask for.  Just look at UConn, great recruiting class and in danger of not making the Big East tourny.

I don't really disagree with most of what you say except maybe my view and expectations of alma mater is probably higher (perhaps unrealistically so) than yours.  I just hope that TC is able to get two more top recruits in 2008 whether he walks directly into the recruits living room or steals them, I don't care.  He shouldn't give up on somebody like JaMichael Green just because Kansas is recruiting him. 

I do disagree with you that one top 100 recruit is enough for us to be consitently in the top half of the big east.  We need more depth than that and at all positions, not just guards.

[augoman]

you know, one top 100 recruit might do it if he is a top 10!, but we seem to get ONE recruit in the 75-100 category..., and usually at a position where we aren't hemorraging!  We need big men!  We are getting 2 guards(counting acker), 2 forwards and, maybe, a power forward.  And lets face it; DW3 was as big a surprise to TC as he was to all of us!  I saw him scrimmage (practice) in Oct his freshman year and had to find out who he was!  Imagine how I felt when I learned he was ineligible.
How does BoBo at uw manage to recruit MULTIPLE top 100 players year after year- so much so that he can bank (red-shirt) them, develop them (sometimes for 6 years) and pull them out when he has a need?  Admittedly, he gets some haybalers, but wouldn't we love to have a krabbehoft on the bench?
I appreciate that TC swore he'd never be out of guards again, but we need an inside presence beyond 'dumping the ball off of a penetration to an athletic forward'.
We have the 5th largest men's bb budget in the nation, and I am assured by 'powers that be' that the program is in no danger of losing budget.  Why are we not loaded w/ high school super stars?

[RawdogDX]

Crean will be able to get big men once he shows that big men will go to the nba from mu.  He can get the guards now cause he got TD to the nba, if you are more athletic than TD than you would hope he could do the same for you.  So after barro is 2nd team all big east next year and get's drafted in the 2nd round we may start seeing recruiting in that area get easier.