Fire Buzz Williams

[skianth16]

For one, writing in all caps doesn't make your opinion count for any more than it would regularly. Get over that.

And I think basketball is that game where that put that orange ball in the peach basket right?

If you read all my posts on this thread you would realize that talking about James is irrelevant. I have said all along that we were in games and Buzz' decision making hurt our chances at winning those games.

We were tied today even though we had Maurice Acker (and his unfortunate turnover). Buzz chose not to call a timeout to set up a play to give us a chance to win the game. James is easily a +1 over Acker, but we didn't even need that today. All we needed was a set play to get an open shot in the last 8 seconds.

And Burke is not a 3! Are you kidding me? And Lazar a 2? Who cares if Lazar played out of position? He has done it for the past two years. He played well in the post last year and continued to progress this year. That's all there is to it.

Dwight Burke as a wing player...  And you think I don't understand basketball

[drewm88]

I think that every single high school coach in the country would have had the common sense to call a time out and draw up a play for a chance to win the game.

That might be true. I don't blame them. Not a lot of 16-18 year old kids have enough skill and mental fortitude to pull off a play on their own in a high pressure situation like that. On the other hand you have 21/22 year old men with years of experience playing Big East basketball. I trust any of our Big 4 to get it done in that situation. By not calling the timeout, it prevented Boheim from doing any defensive coaching. It was just our guys against their guys. And I'm taking our guys in that situation every time. Do it again tomorrow, and I still don't want Buzz to take a timeout. Not with Jerel McNeal (or DJ) on the court. Most times, they'll get it done.

[mugrack]

this guy's a pud

[TheNotoriousOne]

Seriously, fire Buzz?  Regardless of who's playing for the guy, 23-8 overall and 12-6 in the toughest goddamn conference in the country, doesn't exactly suck, especially with 3-4 of those losses in your star player's absence.   Even with the sky falling over at Georgetown, we're nowhere near  calling for JT3's head.  Keep some perspective, fellas. 

That said, very much looking forward to seeing your BET run end Wednesday when you're wrung out by Hoyas or however that cheer goes.

[mufan924]

summer's eve, brings back freshness every time. idiots. you hypocrites need to stfu and eventually accept that the players are the ones that are responsible for what occurs on the court...buzz is unconventional and doesnt call timeouts, accept it. the players know it, we know it. it is what it is. could he have called one? sure. but he didnt. they played like garbage. this team is what is is...theyre undersized, they jack threes, jerel is a ballhog and doesnt pass it off on a fastbreak, jimmy has zero self confidence in his shot, nor does Mo Ack. we are small, somehow tonite we rebounded the ball bc that team is a selfish nucleus of prcks. we lost, thats it, there were bad calls...it wasnt buzz's fault. everyone else is bigger, and theyre deeper, there isnt much more to be said.

[Tribby]

summer's eve, brings back freshness every time. idiots. you hypocrites need to stfu and eventually accept that the players are the ones that are responsible for what occurs on the court...buzz is unconventional and doesnt call timeouts, accept it. the players know it, we know it. it is what it is. could he have called one? sure. but he didnt. they played like garbage. this team is what is is...theyre undersized, they jack threes, jerel is a ballhog and doesnt pass it off on a fastbreak, jimmy has zero self confidence in his shot, nor does Mo Ack. we are small, somehow tonite we rebounded the ball bc that team is a selfish nucleus of prcks. we lost, thats it, there were bad calls...it wasnt buzz's fault. everyone else is bigger, and theyre deeper, there isnt much more to be said.

What's hypocritical about saying, while things were going good, that Buzz is an overrated coach who will ultimately fail... and then, once he indeed fails, pointing out how right we were all along?

Want to know what's hypocritical? Hypocritical is yammering on all season about how amazing Buzz is, how he's got these guys playing at a level that Tom Crean never could have dreamed, and then, when the team comes back down to earth--to the very level that Tom Crean had them at--you continue to defend Buzz and lash out at anyone who would dare speak the truth.

THAT, my friend, is hypocritical.

[MU62]

That is one of the worth posts I have ever seen.  A total moron making the suggestion.  I have been a season ticket holder for 45 years and our current coach is excellent.  The jury will be out on his recruiting ability.  You have to have the players.  He has done great with that little team.  He is a much better game coach than his predecessor.  Losing the quarterback of the team is a very tough challenge.  Please go away from this site with your idiotic ramblings.   

[Tribby]

That is one of the worth posts I have ever seen.  A total moron making the suggestion.  I have been a season ticket holder for 45 years and our current coach is excellent.  The jury will be out on his recruiting ability.  You have to have the players.  He has done great with that little team.  He is a much better game coach than his predecessor.  Losing the quarterback of the team is a very tough challenge.  Please go away from this site with your idiotic ramblings.   

No, Buzz was being carried by a team that is incredibly talented; they won in spite of his awful coaching, not because of it. This is a great team with an awful coach; losing James merely exposed Buzz for what he really is.

The idea that he doesn't have the players is laughable. A better coach beats Syracuse easily, even without James. Wake up.

[Pakuni]

Yeah, those three tournament appearances and three 20+ wins in a row. With unexperienced freshmen in 05-06 we knocked off one of the best teams ever in the history of college basketball when we beat UConn at the BC.

Let the record reflect "one of the best teams ever in the history of college basketball" lost to an 11 seed in the NCAA tournament.
I'd take your opinions more seriously if you showed any evidence you had a clue of what you're talking about.

[skianth16]

I will rarely call out an individual on the boards, but for anyone to say that because that UConn team lost to George Mason in one of the biggest upsets in tournament history is just plain stupid.

Two lottery picks. Two more first round picks and a second round pick. All on one team! They were essesntially an NBA team playing for UConn. Only two other times in NCAA history has one team produced 4 lottery picks.

Just because that UConn team lost in the elite 8 does not change how talented they were. And that makes our win over them that much more meaningful.

[bma725]

No, Buzz was being carried by a team that is incredibly talented; they won in spite of his awful coaching, not because of it. This is a great team with an awful coach; losing James merely exposed Buzz for what he really is.

The idea that he doesn't have the players is laughable. A better coach beats Syracuse easily, even without James. Wake up.

Great team?  You've got to be kidding.

Name another "great team" that doesn't have a point guard.  Name another "great team" that doesn't have even a serviceable big man.  Name another "great team" that starts no one over 6'6 and plays a shooting guard at the power forward position.

The notion that this is a great team even with James is what's laughable.  They are a severely limited team that is lucky to be where they are given their makeup.  To date, they've outperformed last year's team which had more overall talent.

You're overrating the talent on this team incredibly to assume they are a great team.

[GOLDY]

A better coach doesn't beat Syracuse..better play by McNeal, Matthews, and Hayward beats Syracuse.  Check McNeal's shooting in the last 4 losses.  Also he isn't missing because Acker isn't getting him good shots like James did.  He is missing a lot of wide open shots, shots he hit earlier in the year.  His play has dropped off.

Give Buzz time.  Some of the people on this board must be related to the guys sitting behind us all year.  At the beginning of the year they were bashing Jimmy Butler and complaining about what a pathetic player he was and he should never play.  Funny thing  they are the same guys now heard cheering him and talking about what a great player he is.

[Tribby]

Great team?  You've got to be kidding.

Name another "great team" that doesn't have a point guard.  Name another "great team" that doesn't have even a serviceable big man.  Name another "great team" that starts no one over 6'6 and plays a shooting guard at the power forward position.

The notion that this is a great team even with James is what's laughable.  They are a severely limited team that is lucky to be where they are given their makeup.  To date, they've outperformed last year's team which had more overall talent.

You're overrating the talent on this team incredibly to assume they are a great team.

Any team with four NBA-caliber players on its roster is (at the least) a very good team. We can quibble over the semantics, but an average coach should be able to get 12 conference wins out of this squad.

Buzz isn't the worst coach in the world, but we can do much better.

[CaptainHavoc]

He should be fired because he doesn't know how to use an undershirt.

[bma725]

Any team with four NBA-caliber players on its roster is (at the least) a very good team. We can quibble over the semantics, but an average coach should be able to get 12 conference wins out of this squad.

Hayward is not an NBA caliber player.  Too small for the PF position, to slow for any other position.  James is not an NBA caliber player unless he improves his shooting a lot.  Matthews is a borderline 2nd round pick that is going to require work to stick in the NBA.  Again you're severely overrating the talent on this team.

Further, if you consider Matthews an NBA player, you have to give credit for that to Buzz.  He was no where near an NBA caliber player under Crean, it would have been a joke to consider him one.  As Wesley said, Buzz unleashed him and turned him into someone who is under consideration now.  He would not have been that without him.

A less talented team than last years won more games than last years team, and did with less depth and in a tougher conference.

Buzz isn't the worst coach in the world, but we can do much better.

Name one that wanted the job.

[Pakuni]

I will rarely call out an individual on the boards, but for anyone to say that because that UConn team lost to George Mason in one of the biggest upsets in tournament history is just plain stupid.

Two lottery picks. Two more first round picks and a second round pick. All on one team! They were essesntially an NBA team playing for UConn. Only two other times in NCAA history has one team produced 4 lottery picks.

Just because that UConn team lost in the elite 8 does not change how talented they were. And that makes our win over them that much more meaningful.

Sigh ... so having several players drafted makes them among the greatest teams of all time? One of the greatest teams of all time is one that didn't even make the Final Four?
Wow ... what's that say about the teams that actually won something? How many greatest of all time can there be?
Sorry, but there have been plenty of teams with multiple first round picks AND that won something of significance. That UConn team wasn't one of them.

2007 Florida Gators had three lottery picks and another first-round pick. And they won a pair of championships. One of the greatest of all time.
2007 Ohio State ... two lottery picks (#1 and #4 overall), another first-round pick and an NCAA runner up. One of the greatest of all time.
2005 UNC ... four lottery picks and a championship. One of the greatest of all time.
2004 UConn ... four lottery picks, six first-round selections and a championship. One of the greatest of all time.
2004 Duke ... three lottery picks and a Final Four. One of the greatest of all time.
2003 Kansas ... two lottery picks, three first-round picks and went to the Finals. One of the greatest of all time.
2001 Duke ... three lottery picks (plus a future all-star taken later) and a championship. One of the greatest of all time.
1999 Duke ... three lottery picks (plus #14 overall) and a runner-up in the tournament. One of the greatest of all time.

There's a list of eight teams in just the last decade that deserve "greatest of all time" status ahead of that UConn team in 2005. They had NBA players and actually won something.
If the history of college basketball began in 1999, I don't think your case would have any merit. But considering the fact college basketball has been around a little longer than that, your position is utterly laughable. I could go on and on with teams like the early 90s Duke and UNLV rosters, mid 80s UNCs, etc.

Oh, and since you make so much of that team's NBA talent, it should be pointed out that only one of those guys averages more than 4.5 ppg in the league. They're not exactly setting the league on fire.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Let the record reflect "one of the best teams ever in the history of college basketball" lost to an 11 seed in the NCAA tournament.
I'd take your opinions more seriously if you showed any evidence you had a clue of what you're talking about.

Let the record further reflect that UCONN lost to a Final Four team that year and had 7 players selected in the NBA draft.  They were killer talented, but that doesn't mean they couldn't fall on any day.....which is what happened when they lost to a Final Four team (who also happened to be an 11 seed). 

That being said, I didn't think UCONN was one of the greatest "teams" of all time.  They had incredible talent, but that doesn't make them a great team.  Nor, do I think Buzz Williams should be fired.

[mubball2009]

pakuni, stop googling for one second. you are missing the point. UCONN was not the greatest team ever, but was one of the talented. I think the NBA scouts who drafted their entire team hold more merit than your opinion.

the biggest joke is people like yourself claiming that this year has met expectations, and possibly exceeded them. what have we done? buzz has taken our best recruiting class ever and landed them a 6 seed in the NCAA tournament. watching the amigos grow up, we all waited for this senior year...dom getting props his freshman year, jerel getting big east defensive player of the year as a soph...everyone was waiting to see what they could do as seniors. turns out, their freshman season was more exciting and more fufilling than this (up to this point). this isn't  to say something great can't happen, but I would trade freshman year with a big win over UCONN and a killerhome win over ND over a 5th place big east finish with one great win (nova). I would understand if this team underachieved because the players never fully materialized, but we are graduating some of the greatest this school has seen in a long time. add to that, we have an nba caliber junior (stop arguing. look at draft projections). all in all, even with dom getting hurt, this team has fell way below expectations, while at the same time playing to their potential. who is left to blame? I won't say fire buzz, but be prepared to get out of future players only what they were god given, and nothing more. his recruiting will keep us competitive, but his coaching will keep us from ever being great.

[Tribby]

Name one that wanted the job.

Bruce Weber. I'm sure there were more, but we'll never know since MU didn't even interview anyone else...

Anyway, let's say for a moment that Buzz WAS the best coach we could get. That fact alone doesn't actually make him a good coach. He's not, so let's quit pretending like he is.

[bma725]

pakuni, stop googling for one second. you are missing the point. UCONN was not the greatest team ever, but was one of the talented. I think the NBA scouts who drafted their entire team hold more merit than your opinion.

the biggest joke is people like yourself claiming that this year has met expectations, and possibly exceeded them. what have we done? buzz has taken our best recruiting class ever and landed them a 6 seed in the NCAA tournament. watching the amigos grow up, we all waited for this senior year...dom getting props his freshman year, jerel getting big east defensive player of the year as a soph...everyone was waiting to see what they could do as seniors. turns out, their freshman season was more exciting and more fufilling than this (up to this point). this isn't  to say something great can't happen, but I would trade freshman year with a big win over UCONN and a killerhome win over ND over a 5th place big east finish with one great win (nova). I would understand if this team underachieved because the players never fully materialized, but we are graduating some of the greatest this school has seen in a long time. add to that, we have an nba caliber junior (stop arguing. look at draft projections). all in all, even with dom getting hurt, this team has fell way below expectations, while at the same time playing to their potential. who is left to blame? I won't say fire buzz, but be prepared to get out of future players only what they were god given, and nothing more. his recruiting will keep us competitive, but his coaching will keep us from ever being great.

Our best recruiting class ever?

You need to read up on your Marquette history.  This class was not even close.

[bma725]

Bruce Weber. I'm sure there were more, but we'll never know since MU didn't even interview anyone else...

Not true.  MU did contact other candidates both directly and through back channels. 

Anyway, let's say for a moment that Buzz WAS the best coach we could get. That fact alone doesn't actually make him a good coach. He's not, so let's quit pretending like he is.

Yeah because bad coaches turn Wesley Matthews into a 2nd team all Big East player when he hadn't shown he could do that in his previous three years.  And bad coaches turn Jimmy Butler, a guy who hadn't so much as played small forward in his life into a competent 4/5 off the bench. 

Hate the search all that you want, that doesn't make Buzz a bad coach.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Our best recruiting class ever?

You need to read up on your Marquette history.  This class was not even close.

I wouldn't say best ever, but not sure I would say "not even close".  I guess it all comes down to the definitions used.

If it's based on wins in the NCAA tournament, then absolutely it will "not even be close".

If it's based on school records, wins, etc....then I'd argue it's right up there.


Tough to compare eras, of course.  The NCAAs some would argue were easier to navigate back in the 70's.  Others will argue that freshman didn't play with some of those classes of the 1960's so they were penalized.


Hard to say.

But certainly this is one of the better classes in MU history and I'd be hard pressed to find 4 classes that were better (thus making them top 5 in MU history).  Th #1 and #3 all-time scorers in school history.  Multiple all Big East players in arguably the toughest conference in America.  #2 all-time assist leader.  Four NCAA appearances, average of 23 wins per year, etc.

I guess I would rank them as the best class in the last 25 years, though I could talk myself into including a few others along for the discussion as well.

[skianth16]

Our best recruiting class ever?

You need to read up on your Marquette history.  This class was not even close.

I think the stats on senior night said it all. This class produced the leading scorer, #1 all time in steals, #1 all time in FG made, #1 all time in free throws made, #2 all time in assists, #3 all time scorer...

This class is far and away the best class in Marquette history. They rewrote the record books! Even if they didn't come in as the most highly touted, they easily became the best.

How's that for history?

[Tribby]

Yeah because bad coaches turn Wesley Matthews into a 2nd team all Big East player when he hadn't shown he could do that in his previous three years.  And bad coaches turn Jimmy Butler, a guy who hadn't so much as played small forward in his life into a competent 4/5 off the bench. 

You do realize the term "Three Amigos" was in use before this year, right? Wes Matthews emerged this year, it's true, but he hardly came from nowhere. News flash: good players frequently have breakout seasons during their senior year.

Now if Mo Acker turns into an all-Big East next year, then you might be on to something...

As for Jimmy Butler, he was highly touted coming into the season. He's met expectations, which is great, but not real meaningful as it relates to this discussion.

[mubball2009]

what about jimmy butlers play shows you that came from one year of coaching? he has shown an uncanny ability to snag offensive rebounds, and 90 percent of his play and contribution are built off that. did buzz teach him how to get 10 offensive boards againt syracuse? no.

your comment about matthews does more to prove my point. buzzs coaching styler is laissez faire, and he relies on his players being, in fact, very very good. maybe crean restricted matthews too much, but he produced the same result with one less year of playing experience for mcneal, james, wes, and lazar. u can't say that matthews would not have had this season with another coach, there is no way to know that. by all accounts, matthews came back much stronger and with a better stroke. it doesn't take a genius to let him shoot. take buzzs coaching style and put it on a team without the caliber of players mu has and u have a riot on this board.