This is not the end of the world people

[Marquette84]

Price put up 5 points and an assist in the first four minutes of the game--when James was guarding him.

Extend that pace to the full 37 minutes that Price played, and you're right he wouldn't have scored 34.  He would have scored 45.  

Price was having one of those nights from the time the game started.  He scored just as easily on James as anyone else.





MU84,

If this post was supposed to be in teal it's one of the best and funniest of the year. If not, it's certainly the dumbest.

I'm dead serious.  James showed NOTHING against Price defensively when he was in the game for the first four minutes.

I take issue with those who suggest the only reason Price went off is because of Acker.   Price was going off from the opening tip.

Here's your teal: James played masterful defense against Price last night in the first five minutes, holding him to just 5 points and one assist before the first media timeout.

Happy?

Now, time to back away from the ledge. 

First, we have nothing to worry about on offense. MU scored more against UConn than all but two opponents this year--Gonzaga and VIllanova--and the Gonzaga game was in overtime.  UConn held USF to 50.  Syracuse to 49.   Louisville to 51.  Seton Hall to 54.  Providence to 61.  Now, put this in perspective:  We put up 82.

Second, whatever defensive issues may or may not exist, MU isn't winning games on the defensive end of the court.  The goal all season has been to speed up the game and force the other team into making errors, then using our speed and transition to capitalize on them.  We didn't lock down Georgetown in a defensive contest--we sped the game up to force them to take bad shots and execute poorly on their own offense.  I don't see that changing at all with Acker.  We don't play a one-on-one game.  We rely on a team strategy. 

[Hards Alumni]

So what you are saying is that it is inconceivable to think the James' defense would have tightened up?

simple extrapolation of statistics does not prove anything.

If you think James and Aacker are on par with each other defensively, you must be watching something different than the rest of us.

what a crock.

[warriormom]

But this was a home game with a crazy crowd and the team wanting to win badly I'm sure for James.  Remember the Pitt game after McNeal was hurt?  We won that game but losing him sure hurt us in the tournament.  
To dismiss James offensively just because he hasn't been shooting the ball well doesn't acknowledge what he does for the rest of the team offensively with his assists and court vision.
And for this team who has been playing for the prize, I think not making the Final Four or Elite Eight is the end of the world.  
Not sure when we will have a team this special in the near future.

[SERocks]

May not be the end of the world, but this is what I see:

Prior to last night's game Marquette was:

1. Arguably a top 5 team.
2. Had the opportunity to win the Big East Regular Season.
3. Arguably a 1-3 seed in the NCAA tourney.
4. Had a realistic chance for the Elite 8 or even a Final 4 run.
5. Was expected to finish with a double bye for the BEAST tourney.

James was the oil that made the machine run. He knew when and where to get the ball at all times. He was, simply amazing. Acker will try his best and is pretty good, but is nowhere near the class of James.

So, without James, and it pains me to say this, but realistically:

1. We will not win another game this season, maybe Syracuse as that is senior night and the team will be fired up to win that one for James.
2. We are arguably not a top 25 team, but probably fall in the range of 25-50 somewhere.
3. We will likely get a 4 or 5 seed and be one of those 4 or 5 seeds that is beaten every year by the 13 or 12 seeds.

In essence, our dream for a special season is over, and realistically MU basketball for the next two years is in rebuilding mode. And what really sucks is we have been seen as overrated all season and now when we get down to the opportunity to prove we belong in the top 5 our main guy goes down.

Unbelievable.

Unreal.

I cannot believe what James must feel. He was moved to tears most of the game last night watching from the sidelines. He wanted to run the "gauntlet" (our last five games) as much as anyone.  He was ready to rock.

SE

[Hards Alumni]

+1 right on the head.

[NavinRJohnson]

simple extrapolation of statistics does not prove anything.

what a crock.

Agreed. How ridiculously stupid. James had 3 points in the first three minutes, therefore we can conclude he would have ended up with 40 and MU certainly would have won the game.

I'll ask again for those who want to minimize the impact the injury has on MU's defense...when is the last time in the last 4 seasons that a guard, any guard put up 35 points against MU?

[CTWarrior]

Nothing is the end of the world except the end of the world.  This is the end, however, of our hopes for a Big East regular season title, a Big East tournament title and an extended run in the NCAA tournament.  We can probably still do some nice things, but the things we thought we could do yesterday were a lot nicer.

[Sweenz]

I think our seeding will be very low (or high)... maybe even 6 or 7... remember when McNeal went down, and all of the sudden we played Michigan St... well DJ has gone down earlier, we might end the season with a 5 game losing streak.

Winning one game in the tourney would be a nice accomplishment in my opinion now. When I found out James was out for the year, two words entered my mind... seasons over.

I love this team, and no doubt they will fight, but as I said earlier in the year, if one of these guys goes down, count us out.

[THEGYMBAR]

Character is one thing this team is not lacking. I believe that this team has the character to achieve greatness over the upcoming weeks. While very disappointed in the DJ injury I have not given up hope. Actually my real disappointment is that DJ will not be on the court when this team surprises people.

This years success has a been achieved because of a few talented players, but more importantly, it was achieved by a group of boys that became men before our very eyes.

I AM STILL A BELIEVER IN THESE GUYS!!!!

[Lennys Tap]

I'm dead serious.  James showed NOTHING against Price defensively when he was in the game for the first four minutes.

I take issue with those who suggest the only reason Price went off is because of Acker.   Price was going off from the opening tip.

Here's your teal: James played masterful defense against Price last night in the first five minutes, holding him to just 5 points and one assist before the first media timeout.

Happy?

Now, time to back away from the ledge. 

First, we have nothing to worry about on offense. MU scored more against UConn than all but two opponents this year--Gonzaga and VIllanova--and the Gonzaga game was in overtime.  UConn held USF to 50.  Syracuse to 49.   Louisville to 51.  Seton Hall to 54.  Providence to 61.  Now, put this in perspective:  We put up 82.

Second, whatever defensive issues may or may not exist, MU isn't winning games on the defensive end of the court.  The goal all season has been to speed up the game and force the other team into making errors, then using our speed and transition to capitalize on them.  We didn't lock down Georgetown in a defensive contest--we sped the game up to force them to take bad shots and execute poorly on their own offense.  I don't see that changing at all with Acker.  We don't play a one-on-one game.  We rely on a team strategy. 





I almost don't know where to begin. The ludicrous extrapolation of statistics arguement has already been punctured by others so I'll leave that one alone.

You say that defensive issues now "may or may not exist". MU loses their defensive stopper, arguably the best on ball defender in our storied history, and we replace him with a 5'6", 140lb refugee from the Mid American conference and this MAYBE creates problems?

This team wins with offense AND a defense that pressures the perimeter. We do this because we have virtually NO interior D. With Acker in the game it is far easier for our opponents to get inside by either dribble penetration or simply throwing the ball over his head.

Teams like UConn can can absorb the loss of a guy like Dyson because their bench is loaded with Big East quality players. MU not so much. We were one of the smallest and thinnest teams in D1 BEFORE this injury. This is a HUGE setback for this team and any attempt to downplay it is plain wrong.

[ATWizJr]

Yes, we sustained a tough loss and lost DJ in the process.  Yes, replacing him will be a challenge.  Yes, I'd rather that we had won and that DJ was not injured.

However, we still have 3 excellent players, a bench that is getting stronger late in the season (18 points last night against UConn) and a ton of motivation.  I suspect the guys will not disappoint and that their effort will be inspired. 

I expect them to finish in the top 4 in the BE and garner a 3-4 NCAA seed.  I love this team.  They love and play for each other. They will continue to produce!

[RawdogDX]

Why is not making the Elite 8 or Final 4 the end of the world?

Apparently I missed the memo about how not making that is the end of the world.

Have you spent the last 4 years hoping for one great run out of this class?  Were you decimated by jerel's injury two years ago?  Can you still not believe that those prayer shots fell last year?
The point isn't that we won't make the 8 or 4, it's that now we'll never know what this team could have done.  It's that now it isn't even remotely realistic to think about that run occurring.  We are graduating arguably the greatest class in mu history and they will have no march success to show from it. 

Sorry for finding that depressing, but you saying that all is good because we may win a game or two isn't something you want to tell me to my face. 

[Blackhat]

Scoring on a guy on two possessions doesn't ensure DJ wouldn't have locked him down or contained him later.   The season's body of evidence suggests if anyone on our team was going to stop Price it was DJ.  

If guys want to talk themselves into some fantasy that Mo Acker is a Big East player and we didn't just see in all likleihood our chance for an elite 8 end last night knock yourself out. Ra Ra and all that.  But there's a reason Mo hasn't gotten pt this year and it's not because Buzz doesn't trust bench players.   It's cause he's just not that good.  Yes, he has a big heart, and all that feel good hugs and kisses, but bottom line he's not a BE player.   And he will/did get taken advantage of when we're on defense.    

[SCdem@MU]

So, without James, and it pains me to say this, but realistically:

1. We will not win another game this season, maybe Syracuse as that is senior night and the team will be fired up to win that one for James.
2. We are arguably not a top 25 team, but probably fall in the range of 25-50 somewhere.
3. We will likely get a 4 or 5 seed and be one of those 4 or 5 seeds that is beaten every year by the 13 or 12 seeds.

You want to place a wager on that? There is no way that a team w/ 3 potential NBA players loses to a 13 or 12 seed in the NCAA.

It sucks that James' career at Marquette is over and I love what he represented and the emotion that he brought to the game. But lets face the facts, James was the 4th best player on the team (and with how Butler has been playing lately, maybe even the 5th) in terms of production.

Usually when your 4th best player goes down your season is not considered over.

Update: Ok, I admit that implying that Butler is better than James was a bit much.

[SCdem@MU]

Have you spent the last 4 years hoping for one great run out of this class?  Were you decimated by jerel's injury two years ago?  Can you still not believe that those prayer shots fell last year?
The point isn't that we won't make the 8 or 4, it's that now we'll never know what this team could have done.  It's that now it isn't even remotely realistic to think about that run occurring.  We are graduating arguably the greatest class in mu history and they will have no march success to show from it. 

Sorry for finding that depressing, but you saying that all is good because we may win a game or two isn't something you want to tell me to my face. 

My philosophy is simple: As long as you get to the Sweet 16, crazy things can happen. This is still a Sweet 16 team, but for us to get any further than that now would probably require a lot more luck than it would have 2 days ago.

Who knows, maybe the 1-3 seeds in our bracket all lose early.

[SERocks]

No, no wager as I pray you are correct and I am an idiot.

But that is the way I see it.  

[Please let me be wrong, please let me be wrong, please let me be wrong...]

-SE

[warriormom]

That post just showed your true basketball ignorance.

To diminish DJ to the 4th best player on the team is ludicrous.  To not acknowledge what he did to enhance everyone elses game is beyond belief.  To say Jimmy Butler based on one game may have surpassed James is insane

[Blackhat]

You want to place a wager on that? There is no way that a team w/ 3 potential NBA players loses to a 13 or 12 seed in the NCAA.

It sucks that James' career at Marquette is over and I love what he represented and the emotion that he brought to the game. But lets face the facts, James was the 4th best player on the team (and with how Butler has been playing lately, maybe even the 5th) in terms of production.

Usually when your 4th best player goes down your season is not considered over.

I'm trying not to be rude here but DJ is what our third all time leading scorer and probably our best defender.   So I'm not sure why you believe he's our 4th best player unless you just look at ppg as the be all end all.  

And say he is the 4th best the drop from our top 4 to our 5th guy is astronomical.   Butler has only showed of late he's an okay/solid BE guy.  To say Butler has been better than DJ just makes me question your basketball perceptions.    

[RawdogDX]

You want to place a wager on that? There is no way that a team w/ 3 potential NBA players loses to a 13 or 12 seed in the NCAA.

It sucks that James' career at Marquette is over and I love what he represented and the emotion that he brought to the game. But lets face the facts, James was the 4th best player on the team (and with how Butler has been playing lately, maybe even the 5th) in terms of production.

Usually when your 4th best player goes down your season is not considered over.

How old are you?  right now i'm guessing 17 and this is your first year watching basketball.

[SCdem@MU]

How old are you?  right now i'm guessing 17 and this is your first year watching basketball.

Thanks, that contributes a lot to the discussion.

Some people here just can't seem to deal with the reality that James' freshman year was an aboration and not the norm.

Doesn't mean it doesn't hurt -- it does. But losing McNeal, Mathews, or Hayward (especially Hayward) would have been a far far far worse prospect than losing James.

It's probably too soon to say that Butler is better than James, but he certianly has improved over the last 4 games and he is getting better with every game.

[bma725]

Thanks, that contributes a lot to the discussion.

Some people here just can't seem to deal with the reality that James' freshman year was an aboration and not the norm.

Doesn't mean it doesn't hurt -- it does. But losing McNeal, Mathews, or Hayward (especially Hayward) would have been a far far far worse prospect than losing James.

It's probably too soon to say that Butler is better than James, but he certianly has improved over the last 4 games and he is getting better with every game.

DJ plays the most important position on the court.  Forget what he brings to the table for a second.  You can't be a great team, or even a good team without a good point guard.  You can't make a run in the BE tourney or the NCAA Tourney without a good point guard.  We just lost one of the best, and replace him with no one.

The notion that Hayward is more important than James is ludicrous.  Hayward's scoring can be replaced.  His lack of defense can be replaced.  His rebounding can be replaced.  The other players can pick up the slack and do those things.  They can't pick up the slack and replace DJ.

You can't replace the way DJ ran the team and controlled the game on the court.  Not with Acker or anyone else on this roster.

[SCdem@MU]

DJ plays the most important position on the court.  Forget what he brings to the table for a second.  You can't be a great team, or even a good team without a good point guard.  You can't make a run in the BE tourney or the NCAA Tourney without a good point guard.  We just lost one of the best, and replace him with no one.

I think the combination of Acker and Butler worked out pretty well:

Combined they had 18 pnts, 7 boards, 5 assists, 2 steals, and 0 turnovers.

James has averaged 11.7 pnts, 3.6 boards, 2.3 steals, and 2 turnovers a game.

You are right in that no single player is going to be able step up and do what James did, but last night against the #2 team in the country these two stepped up pretty well.

[lurch91]

My main concern does the loss of James change the offense?  I'd hate to think we go back to all set plays, but I don't think Acker is as good as James getting the team into it's offense.

[SCdem@MU]

My main concern does the loss of James change the offense?  I'd hate to think we go back to all set plays, but I don't think Acker is as good as James getting the team into it's offense.

Without James we scored 76 points against one of the better defensive teams in the BE, so I think we will be fine offensively.

[CTWarrior]

I think the combination of Acker and Butler worked out pretty well:

Combined they had 18 pnts, 7 boards, 5 assists, 2 steals, and 0 turnovers.

James has averaged 11.7 pnts, 3.6 boards, 2.3 steals, and 2 turnovers a game.

You are right in that no single player is going to be able step up and do what James did, but last night against the #2 team in the country these two stepped up pretty well.

Butler just played the position he always does and had a great game.  Acker replaced James pretty much straight up and had 6 points and 4 assists and whille the box score said 0 turnovers, they missed at least one .  More importantly UConn basically didn't guard him and it made it tougher on everyone else, not to mention the fact that without James we couldn't guard Price who lit us up.  Suffice to say the way we solved the missing DJ problem didn't give me the warm fuzzies (as my wife would say) last night.