Buzz Williams this year

[ChicosBailBonds]

This BMW had performed more like a Chevy Impala under the previous regime. We've had this discussion ad infinitum/ad nauseam. The less prideful Buzz doubters have watched the games and happily admit they were wrong. The more prideful ones set up straw men and deny the evidence right in front of their noses.

Really?  I didn't realize the 3rd best record in the Big East over three years was acting like a Chevy Impala.  Oh well.

There's nothing to admit either way.  We don't know yet and won't for several years.  Why is that so hard to understand?  Let me ask you this, if next year we don't win double digit games in the Big East, something the Chevy Impala team ALWAYS DID, will that be the coach's fault?  I'm just curious.

Buzz has done a great job with a great team.  In a few years we'll know how good he really is. 

[bilsu]

Talent does not guarantee wins. Look at the talent Roy Williams has at North Carolina. 4 thousand point scorers, returning player of the year, a team full of McDonald all-americans and preseason prohibited favorite to win the NCAA title. With all that North Carolina has lost 3 games. Buzz is a good coach to have this team at 23-4. Next year we will lose a lot of games. That does not make Buzz a bad coach. Generally, you are not going to win with freshmen in the Big East.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Buzz has certainly done a great job coaching them this year, and he certainly could win the COY award.

However, I think we all know that college coaching is really made up of 4 or 5 different jobs.

Recruiting players, managing the program/assistants, x and o's, player development, PR/spokesman etc.

I certainly think he is doing an excellent job so far, and I'm excited about the prospects of next season.

But, in order to say that "he is better than Crean", he'll need to have success in more than one season.

[ChicosBailBonds]

That's a bunch of crap.  Serious crap.

1. We were a Chevvy Impala last year?  Gosh, I had no idea all it took was a run-of-the-mill GM car to be ranked in the top 15 all year, plus be .5 seconds away from a Sweet 16 appearance.  I had no idea it was so easy.

2. Pride has nothing to do with coming up with a reasoned opinion on why a program is doing well, whether it had to do with past or present coaches, or present players, or just dumb luck.     90% of the reason we're a top 10 team right now is because McNeal, Lazar, DJ, and Wes are all having great seasons, respective to their personal abilities.   

It's a legit opinion to believe that the PLAYERS bouncing that ball are a very large chunk of why a team succeeds.   As I said, I can give Buzz credit for a couple games in the W column, but if Crean were here, or a dozen other coaches, there'd be variability and credit to dish out for the staff.

It's just totally bogus to dismiss anyone who says Buzz needs more time to be judged, based on some "pride" of whether they want to be right or wrong from their original opinion.   

Why?  I'll tell you this with 100% certainty:  Every single fan out there, every single one who had even the smallest inkling that Buzz wasn't right for the job back in April .. EVERY SINGLE ONE wants this team to win, wants the program to succeed, and wants that sooner rather than later, meaning whoever is at the helm is wished success, including Buzz.  If Buzz fails, that means we limp through 2-3-4-5 years of bad results, and NO ONE wants that.  -- Just because some of us aren't sold yet doesn't mean we're not overjoyed with the way things are going, and desperately want that trend to continue.

Beautifully said.

[DomJamesToTheBasket]

Buzz inherited a great team. That is a given. The question is where we'd be with TC at the helm? I'll listen to people who say we'd be better.......but I would not agree!

[Pakuni]

Saying all Buzz had to do was "turn the key" is pretty unfair. Obviously he had quite a bit of talent to start with, but it's not as if a chimp could coach this team to 23-4. He  deserves credit for getting more than most of us expected out of that talent, and even more than the previous staff got out of it. (No, I don't think the other staff made this team an Impala)

Some of that surely is due to some natural player development. But Buzz should get some credit for whatever role  he the coaching staff has had in player development, and even more credit for putting players in position to best exploit their talents. It's pretty clear that Wes Matthews' talents weren't as well utilized in the prior scheme as they are today. And - occasional lapses notwithstanding - Buzz has done a pretty good job convincing DJ to be more of a point guard and less of a guy who will toss up every shot he can. Everyone knew Jerel would be good, but I doubt any of us saw him as a first-tier Big East POY candidate.

Also, while we can make much of the talent he inherited, let's not forget that this team is arguably less talented, and definitely less deep, than the one we had a year ago. Improvement by the big four is a big plus. But this team gets nothing out of its five, unlike last year when Ooze put up double-figure points and rebounds on occasion and Burke's fouls and occasional defense were a luxury, not a necessity. There are no shooters off the bench like they had last year with Fitzgerald. Cubillian has fallen off the planet. Heck, outside of Jimmy Butler, Buzz really has no bench with which to work.

It's easy to say now that Buzz inherited a BMW ... because the team is playing like one. But before the season, most around the Big East - and on this board - projected this team to be more like an Accord. A nice, solid family vehicle, but not in the same class as some of the Big East's luxury sedans.

[ErickJD08]

That's a bunch of crap.  Serious crap.

1. We were a Chevvy Impala last year?  Gosh, I had no idea all it took was a run-of-the-mill GM car to be ranked in the top 15 all year, plus be .5 seconds away from a Sweet 16 appearance.  I had no idea it was so easy.

2. Pride has nothing to do with coming up with a reasoned opinion on why a program is doing well, whether it had to do with past or present coaches, or present players, or just dumb luck.     90% of the reason we're a top 10 team right now is because McNeal, Lazar, DJ, and Wes are all having great seasons, respective to their personal abilities.   

It's a legit opinion to believe that the PLAYERS bouncing that ball are a very large chunk of why a team succeeds.   As I said, I can give Buzz credit for a couple games in the W column, but if Crean were here, or a dozen other coaches, there'd be variability and credit to dish out for the staff.

It's just totally bogus to dismiss anyone who says Buzz needs more time to be judged, based on some "pride" of whether they want to be right or wrong from their original opinion.   

Why?  I'll tell you this with 100% certainty:  Every single fan out there, every single one who had even the smallest inkling that Buzz wasn't right for the job back in April .. EVERY SINGLE ONE wants this team to win, wants the program to succeed, and wants that sooner rather than later, meaning whoever is at the helm is wished success, including Buzz.  If Buzz fails, that means we limp through 2-3-4-5 years of bad results, and NO ONE wants that.  -- Just because some of us aren't sold yet doesn't mean we're not overjoyed with the way things are going, and desperately want that trend to continue.

1.  Impala is a good analogy for this stupid car thing.  Marquette was not a top ten team preseason.  No one thought (or still thinks) that Marquette is an elite team.  Ferraris, BMWs, whatever... those should be left for the elite teams.  We aren't a Chevy Nova and not a Ferrari.  (American cars do suck so maybe a Toyota Camry.)

2.  This players vs. coach credit is funny/odd.  You mention that Buzz could have credit for two wins or so but how often do coaches make the difference?  Did Petino win the game for UL tonight?  Did he go perfect from the field in the first 11 minutes of the game?  How much credit do you give Coach K, Roy Williams, and other big names?  They have a ton of talent with a bunch of good pieces with depth.  

Lastly, I totally agree with the jury being still out for Buzz long term.  And I think Buzz gets a free pass next year.  But to say that Buzz gets no credit because we have this amazing team that will dominate every team out there and its easy to gameplan against any team is not fair to Buzz.  He lead this team to a great season (regardless of what happens) and I think he deserves some acknowledgment.    

[Henry Sugar]

I was talking to some friends that say Buzz doesnt deserve that much credit because he inherited a great situation but I believe that he deserves a ton of credit. he has been a great coach this year and it doesnt matter that he inherited a great situation. what do you guys think

Does it have to be an OR situation?

Buzz deserves credit AND he inherited a great situation.  He has done well with the situation, and for that he deserves some respect.

I also want to see how well he does coaching a team of talented and young players, but I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.

[mu_hilltopper]

READ. READ READ READ.

"But to say Buzz gets no credit because we have this amazing team...?"

Anyone say that?  Nope.  Not one.   EVERYONE has said he deserves some credit -- the issue is, how much.

[MR.HAYWARD]

i love how everyone likes to say this team is worse on defense this year and cast the full blame on Buzz.  Last year we had Oooze who was a very good defender, a good rebounder nad had the ability to score.  This year we are giving  up a tremendous  amount of size and defending and rebounding ability at the 5.  We have to gaurd with basically no help from the post.  Incredibly difficault to do, Ooze was ahuge benefit last year, yet we are poorer becuase of Buzz?!  Wow!  there goes the ignorant posting again.  I will blame that on the person who failed to sign anyone over 6'8" for 4 years.

[mu_hilltopper]

i love how everyone a few people like to say this team is worse on defense this year and cast the full some blame on Buzz.

fixed.

[ErickJD08]

READ. READ READ READ.

"But to say Buzz gets no credit because we have this amazing team...?"

Anyone say that?  Nope.  Not one.   EVERYONE has said he deserves some credit -- the issue is, how much.

Isn't that where all this stupid car analogies are coming from... Buzz had a Ferrari, BMW, or whatever, and all Buzz had to do is turn the key... I think a.lot of people are saying that 

[Blackhat]

We are worse on defense, that's just a fact.  Look at all statistical analysis.   If d's like Hayward want to ignore that go ahead.  But full blame I haven't given to Buzz, I said lets see if it improves with more length, but we have been giving up a much higher percentage to opponents however our phenomenal offense(much kudos to Buzz) has overcome it.

[Henry Sugar]

Isn't that where all this stupid car analogies are coming from... Buzz had a Ferrari, BMW, or whatever, and all Buzz had to do is turn the key... I think a.lot of people are saying that 

Let me tell you... it's easy to screw up a Ferrari.

I remember my first Ferrari like it was yesterday.  I had just made my first fortune, and went crazy with the proceeds.  Spent all the money on whores, blow, renting some bengal tigers, and that car.  Needless to say, I didn't take care of it well and promptly wrapped it around a tree.

Since then, I've matured greatly.  I take much better care of my current Ferrari, and everyone knows that you purchase the tigers.  Renting is for suckers.

[Blackhat]

I think Hayward was working the corner that night. 

[Lennys Tap]

That's a bunch of crap.  Serious crap.

1. We were a Chevvy Impala last year?  Gosh, I had no idea all it took was a run-of-the-mill GM car to be ranked in the top 15 all year, plus be .5 seconds away from a Sweet 16 appearance.  I had no idea it was so easy.

2. Pride has nothing to do with coming up with a reasoned opinion on why a program is doing well, whether it had to do with past or present coaches, or present players, or just dumb luck.     90% of the reason we're a top 10 team right now is because McNeal, Lazar, DJ, and Wes are all having great seasons, respective to their personal abilities.   

It's a legit opinion to believe that the PLAYERS bouncing that ball are a very large chunk of why a team succeeds.   As I said, I can give Buzz credit for a couple games in the W column, but if Crean were here, or a dozen other coaches, there'd be variability and credit to dish out for the staff.

It's just totally bogus to dismiss anyone who says Buzz needs more time to be judged, based on some "pride" of whether they want to be right or wrong from their original opinion.   

Why?  I'll tell you this with 100% certainty:  Every single fan out there, every single one who had even the smallest inkling that Buzz wasn't right for the job back in April .. EVERY SINGLE ONE wants this team to win, wants the program to succeed, and wants that sooner rather than later, meaning whoever is at the helm is wished success, including Buzz.  If Buzz fails, that means we limp through 2-3-4-5 years of bad results, and NO ONE wants that.  -- Just because some of us aren't sold yet doesn't mean we're not overjoyed with the way things are going, and desperately want that trend to continue.



1.Maybe I'm behind the times but the Chevy Impala used to be the top of their line. Marquette was rated #10 in week 1 of the regular season last year. It was their high water mark, equaled in weeks 5,6, and 7. In week 11 MU fell out of the top 15 and NEVER returned. We finished with a #25 ranking, a drop of 15 spots from week 1, were awarded a 6th seed and lost in the round of 32 to a team that was annihilated in the next round. If that resume resembles your Ferrari or BMW's performance I'd guess you're disappointed in it.

2. Noone would suggest that the players don't deserve the lion's share of the credit for this season. They have been nothing short of spectacular. But TC had Wes and DJ for 100+ games. We watched Wes plateau and DJ regress under his tutelage. At this point we have only one set of criteria to judge TC vs Buzz and any fair reading has to conclude that Buzz has done a better job coaching this group than TC ever did. But you'll never hear that from those with the big egos who have an obvious agenda. You say that everyone on the board is rooting 100% for Buzz. I believe you are but am not so sure about some others.

3.You say my post is "crap, serious crap." Chicos response is "beautifully said." I say if you lie down with dogs you get fleas. Peace.

[Pardner]

Buzz=Smart Car--efficiently gets MU there.

Crean=Gold Hummer--ostentatious, gas guzzler   

[Jay Bee]

I have read only the topic and first couple of posts, so sorry if this is redundant:

But, hey sh1tbags, Buzz "inherited" a team picked to finish 6th in the Big East.  There have been 2 freaking teams since the Big East expanded four years ago to win ***10*** games each year.  We're sitting at 12-2.  Even if Gottlieb and other sword swallowers out there got their wishes over the final games of the regular season, we still have done what counts - we show and prove.

The fact of the matter is you've got three seniors that would each love to play at the next level.. and you know what I see?  I see them yelling at a JUCO harda$$ working transfer when he doesn't shoot and isn't 'greedy' enough.

This team is well coached.  This team has exceeded most people's expectations.  I'm not completely sold on Buzz, but to whine and try to discredit him because of what 'came to him' is ridiculous.

GO WARRIORS!!!!!!!!!!

[ChicosBailBonds]

Talent does not guarantee wins. Look at the talent Roy Williams has at North Carolina. 4 thousand point scorers, returning player of the year, a team full of McDonald all-americans and preseason prohibited favorite to win the NCAA title. With all that North Carolina has lost 3 games. Buzz is a good coach to have this team at 23-4. Next year we will lose a lot of games. That does not make Buzz a bad coach. Generally, you are not going to win with freshmen in the Big East.

I agree about next year would not make Buzz a bad coach if we lose a lot, just as winning a ton of games this year doesn't make him a great coach.

Also... talent that plays together for four years is better than talent that plays together for 1 or 2 years (see UNC).  Don't you agree?

[ChicosBailBonds]

It's easy to say now that Buzz inherited a BMW ... because the team is playing like one. But before the season, most around the Big East - and on this board - projected this team to be more like an Accord. A nice, solid family vehicle, but not in the same class as some of the Big East's luxury sedans.

Weren't we preseason top 15?  Pretty much where we've been all year long and if we lose 2 of the next 3, likely where we will end up? 

[ChicosBailBonds]

But to say that Buzz gets no credit because we have this amazing team that will dominate every team out there and its easy to gameplan against any team is not fair to Buzz.  He lead this team to a great season (regardless of what happens) and I think he deserves some acknowledgment.    

Yikes yikes yikes.....where has ANYONE said Buzz gets no credit for this year?  People must be reading imaginary postings on some pseudo blog of something.  I can't think of anyone saying that Buzz gets no credit or Buzz is simply starting the car with keys or Buzz just throws the ball out there.  He's done a wonderful job.  That being said, yeah, there are a lot of other coaches that could do that with this year's team as well (Barry Switzer could get them to the NCAAs, but that doesn't mean Barry Switzer could get them playing this well).

Buzz has done a great job.  What's funny as crap, though, is the memory loss or complete distortion of reality of the last 5 to 9 years.  When I see things like recruiting was a complete joke or coaching sucked or the team was devoid of talent, I really have to wonder what time warp people are in.  Really. 

It's not an either or scenario which is why it's odd to read so many of these posts.  Crean did a great job.  Buzz is doing a great job.  This just in, it's possible for both scenarios to play out that way.  It's not an either or scenario that so many want to make it.....why, I have no idea, but they want to make it that way.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I have read only the topic and first couple of posts, so sorry if this is redundant:

But, hey sh1tbags, Buzz "inherited" a team picked to finish 6th in the Big East.  There have been 2 freaking teams since the Big East expanded four years ago to win ***10*** games each year.  We're sitting at 12-2.  Even if Gottlieb and other sword swallowers out there got their wishes over the final games of the regular season, we still have done what counts - we show and prove.

The fact of the matter is you've got three seniors that would each love to play at the next level.. and you know what I see?  I see them yelling at a JUCO harda$$ working transfer when he doesn't shoot and isn't 'greedy' enough.

This team is well coached.  This team has exceeded most people's expectations.  I'm not completely sold on Buzz, but to whine and try to discredit him because of what 'came to him' is ridiculous.

GO WARRIORS!!!!!!!!!!

Who is discrediting him?  And if MU loses 3 of the next 4, which the odds makers say they will (let's just play this out, I think MU will beat UCONN and lose to UL and PITT), then MU finishes 5th.  That's almost exactly where they were picked to finish, right?

Let's see how it plays out.  No one is discrediting Buzz.  He's done a great job.  But to ignore the situation that he came into is also equally naive.  We'll know more about Buzz in a few years, but this year he has done a great job.

[ErickJD08]

Who is discrediting him?  And if MU loses 3 of the next 4, which the odds makers say they will (let's just play this out, I think MU will beat UCONN and lose to UL and PITT), then MU finishes 5th.  That's almost exactly where they were picked to finish, right?

Let's see how it plays out.  No one is discrediting Buzz.  He's done a great job.  But to ignore the situation that he came into is also equally naive.  We'll know more about Buzz in a few years, but this year he has done a great job.

Again, plenty of posters are.  That is where the car thing came from... He got a Ferrari, all he needed to do is turn the key.  Sounds like discrediting to me. 

On a sidenote, if we lose the next 4, we can still get 4th place depending how everyone else does.

[MUsoxfan]

Again, plenty of posters are.  That is where the car thing came from... He got a Ferrari, all he needed to do is turn the key.  Sounds like discrediting to me. 

On a sidenote, if we lose the next 4, we can still get 4th place depending how everyone else does.

As long as we're not up 20 with a minute to go and decide to put Frozena in.   If we do that we're just asking to lose to someone like DePaul in the BET because we don't give real bench guys minutes

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

ok, I hate to add on another analogy (I thought the car one was good), but it seems like people are getting too caught up in the little stuff (turn the key, what kind of car is it, etc.)

Let's put it this way:

Buzz is like a freshman that is getting straight A's. Parents love it. School loves it. Everybody's excited about his future.

However, Buzz still needs to do well on his finals (the tournament) and do well in his next 6-7 semesters in order to get a diploma. I'm not saying he's not smart. I'm not saying he doesn't have great potential. I think Buzz can be fantastic.

I really like what Buzz has done so far (I couldn't ask for more), but it seems like some people are already willing to hand him a diploma after/during a great semester.

He has not completed enough courses to get a diploma yet. Is that a fair point of view?


PS One interesting thing to note is that not a ton of people were ripping TC for his regular season performances... it seemed like most of the criticism came after post season losses. Is it going to be the same way for Buzz? If he loses in the first round are people going to blast him?