Man...that game sure could've turned the other way...

[Wade for President]

With about 3 minutes to play, McNeal had just committed his 2nd or 3rd turnover, in what felt like 20 seconds.  Off a steal T. Williams drove the lane...only to have the basket wiped away because DJ took the charge.

A three-point play would've cut our lead to 4, and given all the momentum in the world to L'ville.

By far the biggest play of the night.  Again...love, love, love McNeal...but at that point, I wanted to jump through the t.v. set and tackle the guy to try and slow him down.

[ONeills Barstool]

The bad that comes along with McNeal's good sure felt like it all came at once last night.  I think MU turned it over on four consecutive possessions late in the 2nd half, at least a couple of which belonged to McNeal. 

Even with those 4? TOs though, the total tally was 13 which is respectable for this team.  Better yet, after the string of TOs they didn't panic and were able to rebuild the lead.....very encouraging for a young team on the road.

BTW, excellent free throw shooting by the team overall.  Kudos to McNeal for the 4 of 5 in crunch time.

[MU NY]

Outstanding counter punching offense last night.  Slashing, kicking to open man, getting the foul, whatever.  This team has the tools to go inside and in the Big Beast, that will be important week in and week out. 

I was at the Providence game (can't wait to get them at HOME) where it looked like we were trying to channel Pistol Pete Marovich out there! 

Jay Bilas and Bill Rafferty made an interesting point about how surprised he was that with a strong three guard offense, we seemed unable to protect the basketball during the closing minutes.  He's right.  The team needs to learn (and will 'cause Crean will drill it into them) how to continue to protect the ball and the lead while still ramming it down their throats and "staying sweaty," in the closing crucial minutes at the end of the game. 

[Harrison]

I think it is partially a mentality.  These guys had it pretty easy last year in the fact that they always used Novak to help with pressure not only could he see over the top at 6'10" but he was a seasoned veteran who did not panic.  On top of that he was 99.9% from the line.  At times last night we had Lazar back there and that was brutal, not a great passer, not a great ball handler.  A Freshman and it showed.  Fitz did an excellent job back there. 

But probably our biggest problem with pressure is the simple fact that both Jerel and Wesley for as good as they are and will continue to become are not very good ball handlers.  They need to spend the next two years really developing their handles with basic repititions of ball handling drills.  Both are uncharaceristically weak with the dribble as starting guards in the BIG East.   

[Wade for President]

Harrison...good point.  We all know McNeal's limitations in the open court (i.e. head down), and am now starting to realize that Matthews needs a lot of practice also.

Good game planning by Crean to anticipate the press, and insert Fitz in the starting line-up.  Fitz is so great with the ball (relaxed, can see over defenders, etc.), that he really took some pressure off DJ and the other guards.

I thought Fitzy's game last night was great.  He had a couple three's that were half way down the cylinder and popped back out.  Great points by Bilas in talking about Fitz's background as a soccer player, and how that has improved his laterall quickness.

[WashDCWarrior]

I do think Crean made a mistake not taking McNeal out when he picked up his third fould with about 13:30 to go.  Two minutes later he picked up #4 and had to sit for a while.  Obviously we won, so you can argue that it worked out fine, but when that 3rd foul was committed, I thought McNeal should have gone to the bench.

[Harrison]

The way Mcneal was playing it may have actually helped us.  I do not know how the box score only says 4 To's he had 3-4 very early.  Then he had the charge( is that statistically a TO?, it should be) and then he had 2-3 late.  he had 7-8-9 TO's regardless of the box score.  The 4th foul was absolutely retarded.  2 on 1 with a man wide open.  OK maybe dont pass but why run all the way up the guy when he is sitting there waiting?  It is not like it was bang bang.  Jump stop and hit the 5 footer or pass.  Jerel's decison making is at times absolutely dumbfounding. I thought he had a poor game game, only 1 steal and his points were misleading scored 7 points in the last 30 seconds.  He had turned it on last few games preconference but since the concussion has been brutal with the TO's.  He has singlehandedly kept Louisville and WVU in the games longer than they should be, we cannot get seperation with him tuning it over time after time in a row.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

Hey Harrison, why don't you switch to being a Yankee fan or a Duke fan?  We just won 2 games on the road in tough places to play and all you can do is criticize.  Was the game perfect?  No.  But it seems that nothing short of perfection is good enough for you.  I'd hate to be your kids.   

[Harrison]

The topic string is on how the game got uneasily close.  If you care to read my other posts feel free to read the one I started saying Kinsella had a tremendous contribution.  DJ great game.  I also posted that Fitz had his best game of the year despite shooting 1-5 threes.  I posted that Wesley was a great calming influence by taking the ball to the hoop when we were wanting to settle for 3's.  Barro another double double and his sucess indicates the teams as they are a reflection of how we are driving the ball.  All those things amounted to the win.   But bottom line Jerel played terribly and made many poor decisons.  When he plays like that it limits how good we can be.  yes we beat WVU and Louisville with him playing poorly...I dont think we can beat Pittsburgh or GTown with him playing that way.  My opinion posted on a message board. 

Rocky's edit: Insults removed

[Wade for President]

Got your back Harrison.  In a way...couldn't agree more that McNeal had a tough game last night.  The 4 turnovers in the boxscore definitely seemed quite low.  If he was limited by foul trouble, constant L'ville full court press would've definitely increased those numbers.

Nothing infuriates me more, than when a player has a stupid turnover/gets his pocket picked...and then immediately commits a stupid foul out of frustration.  I know DJ did it last night, and I believe McNeal was guilty also.

[bartmiller#1]

I agree that McNeal didn't play his best last night.

But the boxscore tells the story of the game.  He and D.J. had the same number of turnovers.  That's the truth.  4. 

And even though he scored a lot of points late on FTs, he still scored them-- which is something that no one on this team has been able to do with any consistency until last night. 

Bottom line:  McNeal played what was probably his worst game of the season last night and he still had 7 assists, one steal, and only missed one FT (in 8 attempts). 

Yes, I wished he hadn't committed the offensive foul on the 2-1 break or done several other things that he did in the game, but he still is a net plus on the night-- on what I consider to be his worst night of the season. 

I am still waiting for Matthews, McNeal and DJ to have a good game on the same night.  It seems like we're only getting 2 of the 3 playing to their ability on any given night.  Matthews was great last night.  Made the most of the opportunities McNeal and DJ created for him. 

I also think we're better off with Hayward on the floor, but he doesn't seem to be getting/earning the minutes.  I like his nose for the ball. 

[tower912]

Hayward is not consistent with his defensive or rebounding effort.  He is probably our best player for getting his own shot down low, but he is a liability on the defensive end right now.   Fitz is getting those minutes back because he has been busting his hump on defense lately.   He is moving his feet well, not leaving them unnecessarily, and using his length to bother people.  He played stellar d against WVU and he did it again last night.   His post move last night, the little lefty jump hook off of glass, his something that is there frequently, he just has to be willing to commit to it.  And, if we were ever to do some sort of high/low game against a zone, he is my pick for the high post.

[MUCam]

McNeal's turnover woes, especially late in the game, overshadow his early assists. His ability to drive and dish helped establish our offense against the zone. He had some absolutely spectacular assists to big men in the first half. I think McNeal may be our most talented assist man, even above DJ. He has developed great vision when going to the rim. Obviously, the fourth foul on McNeal shows he can improve. But don't discount what he did early in the game simply on account of what he did later in the game. I think after sitting on the bench for 10 minutes, McNeal got a little to anxious to get back involved, leading to the TO's and a couple poor shots. In my opinion, McNeal may be the most important player on the team....despite my personal favoritism for Matthews and, to a lesser extent James, which puts McNeal at the bottom of my list re: the three sophomores.

[MU NY]

Love McNeal...intense, athletic, creative, unselfish, hustles, makes key passes on O and critical steals on D.  So he got a little unglued for a spell?  So what.  He collected himself, was a part of the action until the end and did NOT foul out.  He's still a bit raw but as he gets better, he will be scary!!!

[TVDirector]

love the intensity jerel brings just about every game...
sometimes that results in what appears to be a lack of control.
but I'll take that with the good end result every time

[Marquette84]

McNeal's turnover woes, especially late in the game, overshadow his early assists.

Some of these things quite clearly are stated without much thought.

7 assists turned into 16 MU points (2 were on three pointers).
4 turnovers resulted in 4 Louisville points (and one was in the first half).

And yet, the turnovers "overshadow" his assists?  Only if one is looking for ways to be critical, I guess.

Its bad enough that a great many of our fans have some misplaced sense of "balance" that compels them to always point out flaws as an equal part of the gamewinning celebration. 

But now, we've reached a new low.  We can go on the road, win a game in a tough venue, see a player score 15 points and 7 assists--on top of a tremendous defensive performance--and the two turnovers that resulted in opponents points "overshadow" that performance.

[rocky_warrior]

I suppose 'Cam can fend for himself - but I think you misinterpreted his statement.  Or rather, he stated it poorly, but if you read the rest of his post that's not what he was saying at all. 

I think the point was - McNeal does many great things on the court, but because he had some sloppy play at the end, that's the most vivid memory people have.   Therefore, it overshadows (I'll use the loose definition of obscures/hides) all the assists he had.

Just my take.

[Marquette84]

McNeal does many great things on the court, but because he had some sloppy play at the end, that's the most vivid memory people have.   Therefore, it overshadows (I'll use the loose definition of obscures/hides) all the assists he had.

1 turnover in the final 13 minutes.  Yeah--real sloppy.

Based on the past few games, the vivid memory OUGHT to be how well McNeal conrolled the ball--not how poorly.  7 turnovers versus WVU in 25 minutes, 8 against UConn in 34 minutes, 7 turnovers in 29 minutes against Syracuse.

Monday he improves that to 4 in 28 minutes.  And one of them was on a charge call that could have easily gone the other way.

In other words--McNeal basically improved TOs by reducing the number of TOs roughly in half.

Does he get any respect here for that?  ABSOLUTELY NOT! 

Instead, people seem to be making a federal case over one turnover he had over the last 13 minutes.  A "vivid memory" that "overshadows" 15 points, 7 assists, and clutch FT shooting in the last two minutes.

The guy absolutly can't win with our fans.  He shows tremendous improvment, and yet there seems to be even MORE criticism over the one turnover he had down the stretch.

Down the stretch (and that extends "stretch" to the ENTIRE SECOND HALF!!) McNeal had exactly TWO turnovers--and one of those was a charge that the refs hadn't been calling all night.

The vivid memory OUGHT to be how well McNeal conrolled the ball or how much he improved--not how poorly he played. 

[tower912]

I am a huge MacNeal fan, think he is the real leader of the team, love his passion, intensity, approach.   I wish I had recorded that game, because I can think of 4 passes he threw away off the top of my head, let alone the charge.   He had one turnover the last 13 minutes because he was on the bench 7 of them.   To deny that he is turnover prone and sometimes out of control offensively means you aren't watching.   Too lament this does not mean I hate the guy, it means I hope he is able to improve that aspect of his game.  Just like I hope that DJ's shot is more like it was against L'ville than it was earlier.  Just like I hope that Ooze's game continues to grow as it has.   Just like I want Fitz to believe that his shot is going in.   That Lazar can find his shot and his defense.   To want a player to improve part of his game does not equal disrespect.   

[spiral97]

I agree that McNeal is the real leader of this team.  I say as much when I post on other team's boards.  They are always fretting about James and I tell them "yes, James can kill you.. but the guy you really need to worry about is McNeal."  They never seem to pay any attention (which is fine) except for after the Louisville game there were a few posts on their board in awe of Jerel.  But even their coach (thankfully?) didn't seem to see it per his post-game comments raving about James.  And we all know he won't read message boards to find out

I am fine with this.. I believe McNeal is fine with it.  It's alllll good!

With respect to the attention given to his turnovers.. those have been his nemesis from day one.  yes, he has improved in that area substantially in recent games.. yes, credit is due.  However, the fan confidence is still not there.  Same thing with DJ.. his nemesis has been his three pt shooting and reliance on said shot.. yes, he has improved in that area substantially in recent games.. yes, credit is due.  However, many of us cringe when he takes the shot and especially so in the last game when he took more than we would have liked.

The thing to keep in mind here is that those posters criticizing McNeal or James or any other player on our team are not doing it out of malice.  Most people here love our players and would stick with em through thick and thin against anyone.  These posts are coming from a genuine desire for our players to reach their full potential and to be the best they can be <insert "in the arrrrrrrrrmy" jingle here>.

Some of these things quite clearly are stated without much thought.

quite the opposite in my opinion... no one is ripping the team or any member of the team out of ill will.. take a chill pill.. don't need to get so defensive.  many just have their THOUGHTS on bigger goals than winning a single game (a BIG win against a perennially TOUGH team to play on THEIR court but still a single game).. bigger goals like big east champions... ncaa seeding.. ncaa champions.. and yes, individual player career development - who WOULDN'T want to see each and every one of our players improve enough to make it into the NBA (albeit after their eligibility expires)?

[classof70]

Jay Bilas and Bill Rafferty made an interesting point about how surprised he was that with a strong three guard offense, we seemed unable to protect the basketball during the closing minutes.  He's right.  The team needs to learn (and will 'cause Crean will drill it into them) how to continue to protect the ball and the lead while still ramming it down their throats and "staying sweaty," in the closing crucial minutes at the end of the game. 
[/quote]

Interestingly, it appeared to me that when MU struggled and turned the ball over Cubillan was not back to help.  After the time out, he was there to receive the inbounds and MU broke the press fairly easily. 

[augoman]

it seemed to me that the press bothered us the most when hayward was in..., insert fitz and the problem was solved.