Is it over for DePaul?

[jmayer1]

Its pretty simple.  There are a fair amount of good recruits that come out of Milwaukee and Madison and especially Chicago.  I don't know how anyone could think that DePaul and UW having strong programs will not hurt MU's recruiting.  Here is a list of 4 or 5 star recruits those two schools (mostly UW since they have been much better than DePaul recently) and Marquette have landed from either WI or IL since 2002.

DePaul

Mac Koshwal
Will Walker

UW

Boo Wade
Ray Nixon
Alando Tucker
Brian Butch
Greg Stiemsma
Marcus Landry
Trevon Hughes
Keaton Nankivil
Evan Anderson

MU

Jeronne Maymon
Wes Matthews
Jerel McNeal
Dameon Mason
Joe Chapman
Steve Novak


Now, MU has obvisously been successful recently, but their success has been in spite of a strong program at UW not because of it.  The same will be said if DePaul returns to power.  Obviously all of these guys weren't coming to MU if UW was horrible, but the Warriors definitely would have had a better chance at landing some of these guys.  

The comparison to Duke, UNC, and Wake is quite a bit different as those teams (especially Duke and UNC) are able to selectively recruit the best players across the nation.  MU has begun to do this lately but being able to consistently get the best players from WI and IL definitely wouldn't hurt Marquette.

[bma725]

Again, your logic is flawed. You are all operating on the idea that these Chicago kids are either going to A) DePaul or B) Marquette and they pick one or the other. In the grand scheme of things they could go to any number of schools. And if proximity is so bad how come it hasn't hurt North Carolina, Duke, and Wake Forest? They all seem to be doing OK and are right on top of each other.

It's my position that kids are attracted to schools that have strong rivals. Strong rivals also require you to raise your game consistently to remain competitive. For selfish reasons as a fan, its also a lot more fun if the DePaul, Notre Dame and Wisconsin games are competitive.

I've heard the rumors as well, but Q ended up at DePaul so its hard to believe it was ever that close. I never heard that Aguirre committed to MU. Is this true? He was a Chicago kid who wanted to stay in Chicago is what I always thought.

The point is all of the kids we've mentioned are kids that chose between MU and DePaul.  Every single one of them.  The choice they made greatly strengthened one of the schools and weakened the other.

Aguirre has stated multiple times that he committed to MU, and would have gone to MU if Al was still the coach.  He didn't want to play for Hank, so he changed his mind and went to DePaul.  That got Terry Cummings who was going to go wherever Aguirre went to go to DePaul as well.  Heck, it even made Sports Illustrated back in the late 1970s when DePaul was at their best, talking about how Meyer getting those players was basically luck because if McGuire was still coach he wouldn't have got any of them.

As for Quentin Richardson, it was a lot closer than you think.  Go to an alumni outing sometime and if Bo Ellis is there, as him about the Q recruitment.  Or ask some of the players about it because they'll have a hell of a story to tell.  They'll tell you about how Q used to come up every week and practice at the old gym with the team.  They'll tell you how Q told them how much he wanted to come to MU, and at one point even gave a silent verbal to Deane.  They'll tell you how he got back to Chicago and was basically told by his AAU handlers that it didn't matter what he wanted to do, he wasn't going to MU, he was going to DePaul.

[Avenue Commons]

The point is all of the kids we've mentioned are kids that chose between MU and DePaul.  Every single one of them.  The choice they made greatly strengthened one of the schools and weakened the other.

Granted, but you mentioned 3 kids in the 100 year history of Marquette vs. DePaul basketball. 3. What about kids we lost to Madison? Or the other Big 10 schools? What about Shumpert and Tyshawn Taylor?

The point is that if we want to be in the big time and we want to convince recruits we are in the big time, then we need to play big time teams. Therefore, it is not necessarily a negative to have DePaul, Notre Dame and Madison be strong.

[Marquette84]

Granted, but you mentioned 3 kids in the 100 year history of Marquette vs. DePaul basketball. 3. What about kids we lost to Madison? Or the other Big 10 schools? What about Shumpert and Tyshawn Taylor?

The point is that if we want to be in the big time and we want to convince recruits we are in the big time, then we need to play big time teams. Therefore, it is not necessarily a negative to have DePaul, Notre Dame and Madison be strong.

Here's what we know.  Throughout their history, MU and DePaul are rarely good at the same time.  You think its mere coincidence, even thought there is some evidence that the teams compete for recruits, most certainly compete for coverage in the Chicago press, and probably nationally as well.

Meanwhile, MU has been extremely successful despite DePaul's futility.  It is extremely obvious that our success DOES NOT require DePaul to be successful. 

So let's look at it pragmatically. Including this season, we have a four-year run on being a top-half Big East team.   For DePaul to rise to that level, one of us in the top 8 has to drop.  If you pine for DePaul's rise, what guarantee can you offer that Marquette won't replace them in the bottom half of the standings?

[mviale]

The point is all of the kids we've mentioned are kids that chose between MU and DePaul.  Every single one of them.  The choice they made greatly strengthened one of the schools and weakened the other.

Aguirre has stated multiple times that he committed to MU, and would have gone to MU if Al was still the coach.  He didn't want to play for Hank, so he changed his mind and went to DePaul.  That got Terry Cummings who was going to go wherever Aguirre went to go to DePaul as well.  Heck, it even made Sports Illustrated back in the late 1970s when DePaul was at their best, talking about how Meyer getting those players was basically luck because if McGuire was still coach he wouldn't have got any of them.

As for Quentin Richardson, it was a lot closer than you think.  Go to an alumni outing sometime and if Bo Ellis is there, as him about the Q recruitment.  Or ask some of the players about it because they'll have a hell of a story to tell.  They'll tell you about how Q used to come up every week and practice at the old gym with the team.  They'll tell you how Q told them how much he wanted to come to MU, and at one point even gave a silent verbal to Deane.  They'll tell you how he got back to Chicago and was basically told by his AAU handlers that it didn't matter what he wanted to do, he wasn't going to MU, he was going to DePaul.

wow - Q going to MU would have changed a lot of recent history.

[bma725]

Granted, but you mentioned 3 kids in the 100 year history of Marquette vs. DePaul basketball. 3. What about kids we lost to Madison? Or the other Big 10 schools? What about Shumpert and Tyshawn Taylor?

The point is that if we want to be in the big time and we want to convince recruits we are in the big time, then we need to play big time teams. Therefore, it is not necessarily a negative to have DePaul, Notre Dame and Madison be strong.

What about Doc Rivers and Dwyane Wade?  Both of them came down to MU and DePaul, and the decisions they made greatly effected the future of each school.

It's certainly not a positive that your rival is strong, especially ones as close as Madison and DePaul.  It effects attendance, it effects recruiting, it effects coverage of your team.....and not in a positive way. 

[The Lens]

As for Quentin Richardson, it was a lot closer than you think.  Go to an alumni outing sometime and if Bo Ellis is there, as him about the Q recruitment.  Or ask some of the players about it because they'll have a hell of a story to tell.  They'll tell you about how Q used to come up every week and practice at the old gym with the team.  They'll tell you how Q told them how much he wanted to come to MU, and at one point even gave a silent verbal to Deane.  They'll tell you how he got back to Chicago and was basically told by his AAU handlers that it didn't matter what he wanted to do, he wasn't going to MU, he was going to DePaul.

What bma has said was told to me almost verbatim by Dennis Gates.  DG didn't confirm the AAU handlers part but as a HS teammate of Q who was regularly joining Q & Cordell to pick up games in MKE with Wardle & Co, he was very, very surprised by the decision. 

[Avenue Commons]

What about Doc Rivers and Dwyane Wade?  Both of them came down to MU and DePaul, and the decisions they made greatly effected the future of each school.

It's certainly not a positive that your rival is strong, especially ones as close as Madison and DePaul.  It effects attendance, it effects recruiting, it effects coverage of your team.....and not in a positive way. 

 I suppose we'll have to a agree to disagree. But I guess I have more faith in Marquette than you guys do. I want us to play big time competition and for Chicago and Wisconsin and the rest of the Big 10 world to be considered "our territory." DePaul and Notre Dame being strong means we are a part of something big and strong and that reflects well on us and challenges us to always try and getter better and stronger.

I guess you guys would rather we stay in C-USA or go to the A-10 and compete against SLU and Dayton.

[jmayer1]

I guess you guys would rather we stay in C-USA or go to the A-10 and compete against SLU and Dayton.

I don't know how you came to that conclusion at all.  If there are 3 teams going after the same recruiting area and one team is clearly better than the other two, how is that not better for the dominant team?  MU will have plenty of stiff competition in the Big East and somebody has to be in the bottom half.  How is it not advantageous for MU if one of those teams is the school that is closest to them?  Or do you think all 16 teams in the Big East should be in the top 25?

[RawdogDX]

I suppose we'll have to a agree to disagree. But I guess I have more faith in Marquette than you guys do. I want us to play big time competition and for Chicago and Wisconsin and the rest of the Big 10 world to be considered "our territory." DePaul and Notre Dame being strong means we are a part of something big and strong and that reflects well on us and challenges us to always try and getter better and stronger.

I guess you guys would rather we stay in C-USA or go to the A-10 and compete against SLU and Dayton.

You seem to be getting alittle defensive AC.  They aren't saying that MU shouldn't play against good competition.  Every one loves that the big east is as strong as it is.  They just said in terms of recruiting local players you will hit more often if you are the big fish in your local pond.  I don't see anything that anyone posted that indicates they want the entire big east would go down the tube. 
Can you tell me which logical step you disagree with?
1) The Big East WILL have a few doormats. 
2) We will play a few games against those doormats every year and games against the top teams so either way we will play against good competition regardless of which big east team is a doormat or powerhouse. 
3) If one of those happens to be DePaul then they are less of a threat to take a top tier recruit that we want from the chicago land area. 
4) if they are less likely then that helps our chances to land a recruit from chicago, more so than if Providence, vill, or WVU sucked because we are less likely to be directly competing with them.


It also helps that North Western is bad and IL doesn't dominate the chicago prospects, because i don't want either of them to beat us out on someone we like.  It seems like a minor point to start saying people want us back in the C-USA because of.

[Goatherder]

Its pretty simple.  There are a fair amount of good recruits that come out of Milwaukee and Madison and especially Chicago.  I don't know how anyone could think that DePaul and UW having strong programs will not hurt MU's recruiting.  Here is a list of 4 or 5 star recruits those two schools (mostly UW since they have been much better than DePaul recently) and Marquette have landed from either WI or IL since 2002.

DePaul

Mac Koshwal
Will Walker

UW

Boo Wade
Ray Nixon
Alando Tucker
Brian Butch
Greg Stiemsma
Marcus Landry
Trevon Hughes
Keaton Nankivil
Evan Anderson

MU

Jeronne Maymon
Wes Matthews
Jerel McNeal
Dameon Mason
Joe Chapman
Steve Novak


Now, MU has obvisously been successful recently, but their success has been in spite of a strong program at UW not because of it.  The same will be said if DePaul returns to power.  Obviously all of these guys weren't coming to MU if UW was horrible, but the Warriors definitely would have had a better chance at landing some of these guys.  

The comparison to Duke, UNC, and Wake is quite a bit different as those teams (especially Duke and UNC) are able to selectively recruit the best players across the nation.  MU has begun to do this lately but being able to consistently get the best players from WI and IL definitely wouldn't hurt Marquette.

And here is a few you have forgotten for Marquette:

Ousmane Barro
Travis Denier
Brian Wardle
Niv Berkowitz
Ron Howard
Kevin Menard
John Mueller
Dwaine Streeter
Amal Mc Kaskill
Will Gates
Shannon Smith
Walter Downing

There are lots more.  You can also add to De Paul's list Drake Diener and that kid from Milwaukee Vincent with the big hair whose name I cannot recall that De Paul signed at the time.  At that point, De Paul had more players from Wisconsin than Marquette, and Marquette had more players from Chicago than De Paul. 

Take a look at some of those names, and others which have been mentioned.  Wade did not go to De Paul because Fat Kennedy did not recruit him.  It was either Marquette or some team at about the MAC level.  I do not know if De Paul went after Wardle or not, but I do not recall that they did.  De Paul did take a shot at Will Gates, at least before he got hurt.  They never even looked at McKaskill.  Same with Barro.  I do not believe De Paul even looked at him.  Marquette won a recruiting war for Berkowitz, as De Paul really wanted him.  De Paul recruited Howard, and Drake Diener really wanted to attend Marquette with his cousin Travis, who De Paul also wanted.  Streeter attracted no attention from anyone. 

Closer to home, you forgot another bunch of names.  Marquette got an early commitment from a kid from Beloit who later could not qualify academically.  Crean recruited both Chapman and Tucker, and gave the last scholarship to Chapman.  Tucker immediately committed to Wisconsin.  This was similar to when Marquette declined to give a scholarship to Marceattus McGee, and he promptly committed to Wisconsin. 

The result of all these is a real mixed bag.  Players Marquette got that De Paul didn't want turned out to make significant contributions.  (Wade, Barro, McKaskill.)  Some players both teams wanted turned out to be busts (Berkowitz, Howard.) Others that both teams wanted turned out to be huge contributors (Rivers, Travis Deiner.) What is more interesting is the cases where one team got the player they wanted, and wished they didn't.  I am not sure who Fat Pat recruited instead of Wade, but he regretted it.  As for Marquette, Drake Diener really wanted to come to Marquette.  In his career, De Paul won either one or two games against Marquette.  Whatever the number, Diener was the dominant player for De Paul.  But Tom Crean turned him down to sign Howard instead.  Howard was gone after a year. 

The situation is similar with Marquette and Wisconsin.  Marquette would have loved to get Butch.  He did not do badly, but had a career far below what his status as a McD AA would have suggested.  Mike Kelly had a good, but not great career at Wisconsin.  Mc Gee never made it onto the court at Wisconsin, as he got kicked out of school over the summer.  Perhaps the biggest flub by Marquette was signing Chapman rather than Tucker.  Marquette was recruiting both, chose Chapman, and watched Tucker become a starter for Wisconsin his freshman year, and torment Marquette for five years.  Chapman was a complimentary player for Marquette.

The point is, there are plenty of players to go around, few of them are going to single-handedly change the fortune of a team, and of those, it is hard to predict which ones they will be.  Wisconsin was terrible for years.  During the time when Marquette was at its lowest, Wisconsin was no better.  When Wisconsin started to improve, so did Marquette.  That's right.  The greatest period of success in Wisconsin history happened to coincide with Marquette being as successful as it has been for thirty years, despite the fact that the two programs were frequently competing for the same recruits and for attention in the same media.  It would be foolish to claim that Marquette's success is a result of Wisconsins, but clearly, Wisconsin's success had little negative effect on Marquette.  If Marquette had signed every player they competed against Wisconsin for, it would mean we did not sign other players instead.  Would it have made us better or worse?  Who knows?  But the fact that Marquette and Wisconsin have played each other over the past fifteen years or so has given each team a quality non-conference opponent engergized its fan base, and created national interest in the series. 

Marquette and De Paul and Marquette and Notre Dame have attracted similar attention in the past.  While Marquette competes with De Paul for players, it also competes with other teams in the Big East.  Providence wanted Lazar.  Other teams have battled Marquette for players, and will continue to do so.  A good De Paul team does no more harm than a good Notre Dame team, and little more than any other team in the Big East.  A good De Paul team would create more excitement around both programs, make the games between them more interesting, and attract more national attention.  For the most part, Marquette will succeed or fail regardless of how De Paul fares, but a successful De Paul program is better for Marquette than a weak one. 

[bma725]

Wade did not go to De Paul because Fat Kennedy did not recruit him.  It was either Marquette or some team at about the MAC level.

Not true at all.  DePaul was one of three schools to offer Wade a scholarship even after his academic troubles were known, MU and Illinois State were the other two.  Further, Wade's favorites were DePaul and Marquette, Illinois State was only a back up.  Kennedy only had two scholarships available that year.  The first went to McDonald's All American Andre Brown.  The second came down to Wade and consensus top 20 recruit Imari Sawyer.  Kennedy gave the scholarship to Sawyer, a decision no one in the country would have thought was a bad one back then, because he was ready to commit when Kennedy wanted it, and Wade wasn't.  Wade ended up at MU almost by default, as we were the only major program that had a scholarship available and were willing to take the academic risk on him. 

[Stringer Bellenson]

Imari Sawyer, haven’t heard that name in a while.  He was the real deal in HS, and one of several players that got a lot more attention than Wade during that time.  It’s kind of difficult to reiterate the point I’m getting at now that all is said in done, because most of Wade’s Chicago contemporaries essentially blew their loads in HS, while Wade is one of the best players on the planet.  But from what I remember Wade didn’t get paid much attention compared to the likes of Sawyer, Curry, Matt Lottich, Cedric Banks, even Blankson.  It kind of seems like a bold statement now, but I think it’s fair to say Wade was almost looked at as a “2nd fiddle” player in the area back then.  (It doesn’t help that there are usually a McDonalds AA or 2, and there’s tons of talent, my point is he seemed like a lot of people didn’t buy into him.)

However, it seemed fairly obvious to anyone from that picked up the Daily Southtown or didn’t focus solely on the Public League that Wade was still a VERY good player.  I pretty much view McNeal the same way, though he played on a high profile team and was one of the top players in the state.  It seemed like Frasor, Scheyer, Julian Wright, and Minnoy got more attention.  Plus you had younger kids like Rose.  All he wanted to do was go to U of I, and I don’t even think they looked at him.  Someone noted earlier that DePaul didn’t think he was up to their standards either. 

It’s interesting that 2 of the cornerstones of MU over the last few years were “overlooked” players of this nature.  You can even make the same argument for Alando Tucker at Wisconsin, another south suburban player that I don’t recall getting too much hype or attention from the “traditional power houses.”  This leads me to my point about DePaul.  There’s so much talent in the area that you would think they could at least find some serviceable depth from the Chi.  You don’t always need to get McDonald’s players to be successful as MU has shown.  I’d take Chicago’s scraps over most players, plus they tend to play for 3/4 years and not bolt after a year.  I’d rater have a tough, hardnosed player than some big stiff.  Throw in the fact that DePaul has had recruiting success in Milwaukee and they play in the Big East and can get exposure (so they should be able to land national talent once in a while).  While they have issues with the campus, it’s still in Chicago, which beats a lot of places.  It seems DePaul has the potential to turn it around if they get a coach that has a little heart or isn’t a moron.  It might even appeal to a young up and coming coach that has no qualms with busting his ass, even with the lack of resources.  Plus there's some history there.  Maybe I’m oversimplifying, but it doesn't seem like an impossible task to at least them to return to respectability. 

[dpu70]

Hey guys, good talk.

Couple of items.  Have you seen the DePaul campus recently?  It is not what I hear you saying.  New buildings, open quads, new dorms, pretty good on campus practice and work out facilities.

http://www.depaul.edu/maps/lpc/

The Downtown campus has really grown as well, as most students are Downtown.  Colleges of Business, Computer Sciences, Law, and Grad School are Downtown.

http://www.depaul.edu/maps/loop/

There are 24,000 students, with 4000 in dorms and another 10,000 in rented appts nearby.

The School has no problem with funding, however, the Basketball program has not been their priority, choosing new Science and technology buildings instead.  The other Sports at DePaul have flourished in the Big East, especially women's Softball and Basketball, and men's Soccer.

Recently, the AD was asked that very question, and gave the indication that donations have increased for athletics, despite the Men's record.  She also indicated that there may be a change in philosophy and direction in spending.  Oh, no on campus arena, but the purse strings may be loosened for a coach.

Still, a 14 mile bus ride to the Allstate Arena seems to be a big negative to students.  If there was another option closer, I am sure it would have been acceptable.  But, it's tough to compete for fans with so many other professional sports available in this town.

Our biggest problem has been that we have lost our attractiveness to the Hometown kids.  The last recruiting efforts were by Kennedy.  Leitao signed more kids from Wisconsin then Illinois,  Wainright has signed none from the Public League in his 4 years.

I seriously question the talent evaluation of Wainright.  We have a roster full of 200+ ranked players, and that is just not competitive enough in this league.  And, I see no development in the ranks.  Player fundamentals are weak, and worsening the longer they stay here.

DePaul desperately needs another Coach.  Finally, the press is turning negative in Chicago, and it stated with an article in the School paper. 

My guess is that we will have our 4th coach in the past 11 years.  How's that for stability?

[Avenue Commons]

Not true at all.  DePaul was one of three schools to offer Wade a scholarship even after his academic troubles were known, MU and Illinois State were the other two.  Further, Wade's favorites were DePaul and Marquette, Illinois State was only a back up.  Kennedy only had two scholarships available that year.  The first went to McDonald's All American Andre Brown.  The second came down to Wade and consensus top 20 recruit Imari Sawyer.  Kennedy gave the scholarship to Sawyer, a decision no one in the country would have thought was a bad one back then, because he was ready to commit when Kennedy wanted it, and Wade wasn't.  Wade ended up at MU almost by default, as we were the only major program that had a scholarship available and were willing to take the academic risk on him. 

Bradley also was interested in Wade.

Pat Kennedy said that the biggest recruiting mistake he made was Imari Sawyer over Cordell Henry.

[Avenue Commons]

Marquette and De Paul and Marquette and Notre Dame have attracted similar attention in the past.  While Marquette competes with De Paul for players, it also competes with other teams in the Big East.  Providence wanted Lazar.  Other teams have battled Marquette for players, and will continue to do so.  A good De Paul team does no more harm than a good Notre Dame team, and little more than any other team in the Big East.  A good De Paul team would create more excitement around both programs, make the games between them more interesting, and attract more national attention.  For the most part, Marquette will succeed or fail regardless of how De Paul fares, but a successful De Paul program is better for Marquette than a weak one. 

Goatherder and I are on the same page. The relative success/failure of DePaul and Marquette are determined by mutually exclusive factors. We do not need DePaul to fail for us to succeed, and vice versa. My position is that we can succeed even in the face of a successful DePaul program (and Notre Dame for that matter). My point extends that if our main historic and geographic rival, DePaul, is strong then that makes for a more competitive schedule and a more exciting and interesting season. A competitive schedule comprised of challenging games with historic significance is undeniably good for any program, especially one like ours where we rely on our history and traditions as a part of our recruiting. It is for this reason that I feel that a strong DePaul is actually good for Marquette. I don't think anyone would argue that the Marquette vs. Wisconsin rivalry has been much more interesting and intense over the last few years when both teams were very, very good.

While I understand the circumstantial "evidence" of the DePaul and Marquette programs rarely being strong at the same time, I don't think that it is anything more than coincidence and either team's success was not at the expense of the other. Players will always pick one team over the other. Also, I may be mistaken but weren't MU and DPU ranked consistently through the late 70's into the 80's?

I'm 33 and I grew up in the 80's when the Midwestern Catholic independent schools like MU, DPU and ND were national powers. Our games against each other drew national interest and had an intense rivalry that was a heck of a lot more fun than it is now. I want that to return as I feel it is good for Marquette.

[Avenue Commons]

Streeter attracted no attention from anyone. 

Dwayne Streator (who used to post on the old Rivals board at times) is a great guy. A friend of mine had athletic study hall with him and they were talking about their lack of playing time in their respective sports. When my friend asked Dwayne if not playing a lot bothered him he said, "Are you kidding? I'm from East St. Louis. I go to school and live here for free. They pay for school, books and food. What do I care if I don't play a lot?" It's good to know there are kids who don't take their Marquette education for granted and use basketball for them and not let basketball use them.

[AlumKCof93]

Wade signed with MU after his junior year.  It was not until his senior year that he exploded on the HS scene in Chicago.  Years ago, Wade was quoted as saying that his first choice was DePaul, but they did not show interest in him until much after Marquette did.  While it was obviously great for MU that he signed with us, it was also beneficial for Wade.  Say what you will about Crean, Wade developed under Crean much more than he would have under Pat Kennedy.  Kennedy's teams consisting of Q Richardson, Bobby Simmons, Lance Williams, and Steven Hunter were among the most underachieving teams I've witnessed.  Three of those guys played in the NBA for 1+ seasons and yet they only made the NCAA one time and were fortunate to win one game.

[Pakuni]

Goatherder and I are on the same page. The relative success/failure of DePaul and Marquette are determined by mutually exclusive factors. We do not need DePaul to fail for us to succeed, and vice versa. My position is that we can succeed even in the face of a successful DePaul program (and Notre Dame for that matter). My point extends that if our main historic and geographic rival, DePaul, is strong then that makes for a more competitive schedule and a more exciting and interesting season. A competitive schedule comprised of challenging games with historic significance is undeniably good for any program, especially one like ours where we rely on our history and traditions as a part of our recruiting. It is for this reason that I feel that a strong DePaul is actually good for Marquette. I don't think anyone would argue that the Marquette vs. Wisconsin rivalry has been much more interesting and intense over the last few years when both teams were very, very good.

While I understand the circumstantial "evidence" of the DePaul and Marquette programs rarely being strong at the same time, I don't think that it is anything more than coincidence and either team's success was not at the expense of the other. Players will always pick one team over the other. Also, I may be mistaken but weren't MU and DPU ranked consistently through the late 70's into the 80's?

Agreed. I tend to think some are confusing coincidence for causation.

While things may have been different 20-30 years ago, over the past 6-7 years in particular, Marquette has not succeeded because DePaul has failed.
Very rarely, in fact, have the two schools gone head-to-head over players. Both had a strong interest in Mac Koshwal and, I believe, MU may have been involved with Will Walker for a time. With the exception of Wade, most of MU's best players since 2000 - Diener, Novak, the Amigos - were not even on DePaul's radar. And even Wade, as has been noted, was a backup plan for DePaul, not a priority.  Certainly MU has battled for recruits more often with the likes of Wisconsin and even Purdue, yet those programs' success over that time frame has not seemed to impede Marquette's.

[RawdogDX]

Goatherder and I are on the same page. The relative success/failure of DePaul and Marquette are determined by mutually exclusive factors. We do not need DePaul to fail for us to succeed, and vice versa. My position is that we can succeed even in the face of a successful DePaul program (and Notre Dame for that matter).

Did I miss the post where someone claimed that it would be IMPOSSIBLE for depaul and MU to have successful programs at the same time?

[Avenue Commons]

Did I miss the post where someone claimed that it would be IMPOSSIBLE for depaul and MU to have successful programs at the same time?

No one said that it was impossible, but many essentially argued that it was unlikely and has never occurred over the two teams' histories.

[RawdogDX]

No one said that it was impossible, but many essentially argued that it was unlikely and has never occurred over the two teams' histories.

OK, well I'm not going to look at the two teams histories at all. 
All I'm going to say is that if Depaul(or NW) becomes a powerhouse and starts dominating the chicago recruits it will be harder for us to recruit in Chicago than if depaul is a doormat.  I don't see how you can argue with that.

If they get to the point where they have the pick of the litter, then we have less of a shot at a top tier player they want.  Not saying that we will go in the crapper if they turn it around, but we may lose out on an occasional recruit that could help the team. 

There is plenty of top notch competition, i don't see any reason to cross my fingers for depaul to become one of the bazillion ranked teams we play every year.

[bma725]

Bradley also was interested in Wade.

Pat Kennedy said that the biggest recruiting mistake he made was Imari Sawyer over Cordell Henry.

Bradley was interested, but didn't offer.

Kennedy did say that not getting Cordell was his biggest mistake, but it was Rashon Burno he chose over Cordell, not Imari Sawyer.  Burno had verbally committed, so even though Cordell wanted to go to DePaul Kennedy wouldn't take him.  Sawyer was a few years later.

[Pakuni]

Did I miss the post where someone claimed that it would be IMPOSSIBLE for depaul and MU to have successful programs at the same time?

I don't think the word "impossible" has been used, but the strong implication from some is that when DePaul succeeds, Marquette falters, and vice-versa. Or, in other words, MU's success is dependent upon DePaul's failure.
A few quotes from this thread:

"We depend on DePaul's demise"

"DePaul becomes competitive by taking away players that would have gone to MU, thus weakening MU"

"(A better DePaul) sucks media coverage, recruits, and excitement right out of our program."

One's success does not depend on the other's failure. Whether MU is good or bad depends not one iota what DePaul does. Especially now when both schools so rarely go head-to-head for players. I mean, if that last impact player the two schools battled hard over was Quentin Richardson more than a decade ago ... that pretty much says it all. As has been stated earlier, MU and UW are closer geographically than MU and DePaul, share more potential media outlets for coverage, share more of a fan base and compete more often for recruits. Yet both have managed to remain relatively strong this decade. What makes DePaul any different? And please don't tell me the Catholic thing. This isn't 1963. Stud recruits don't choose schools on the basis of their Catholicism.

And, no offense to the poster who mentioned it, but the notion that MU's attendance is impacted by DePaul's success is a silly one. I find it extremely unlikely that there are a notable amount of former DePaul ticket holders now coming to MU games because the Blue Demons are struggling. Nor are there MU ticket holders ready to rush off to the Allstate Arena if/when DePaul starts winning again.

[dpu70]

There won't be any impact on either school, DPU or MU based on their success.  There is a notable impact between DPU and Northwestern for the same College Basketball fan in Chicago.  Even though many graduated from DPU, they are easily found at NW games over the games at Allstate.  Fans are fickel, and will follow a successful program.

The only impact DePaul will have on MU is to lower their RPI.  Win or lose.