Dashonte Riley

[NavinRJohnson]

Whether he is good enough for Georgetown or not, I suspect we may get a feel for the relative difference between their front line and ours on January 31st. O'Toule and McMorrow may be fine, and I am a guard guy all the way, but if you can get another 7-footer with some ability, you do it. Those guys don't grow on trees, as MU fans are all too aware.

[ATWizJr]

Riley = Downing?

[downtown85]

That's the most important word in your entire post...previous.  The kids stock is dropping like a rock because he just doesn't give a crap.  He was a 5 star top 20 player on rivals, now he's a 3 star player ranked outside the top 100.  Every single site has mentioned that he lacks motivation, lacks interest, doesn't play to his potential, etc.  This kid has major red flags no matter how good he is.

Throw in the fact that there's a whole lot of issues surrounding him and the AAU program he's involved with, and it's just not worth it.

Regarding motivation, I am sure at 17 or 18 years old the motivation will be different when he is a bit older.  I know my motivation (regarding school work and whole lot of other things in life) was completely somewhere else as a freshman than as a senior.  We can take him on with the clear warning that he needs to work on his work ethic.  If he meets the expectations then keep him, if he is a lazy sob, throw him back.  scholarship committments are for one year, from what i understand. 

I do not know what you are referring to regarding his AAU team. please do tell. 

[Niv Berkowitz]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't getting Riley mean we aren't getting Jamil Wilson in March?

Don't forget about that great rumor that he's waiting to find out who from MU is leaving and then will announce he's going to MU.

Or...did Jamil commit somewhere yet? I didn't think he did.

[Marquette_g]

I thought the Jamil stuff was dead once and for all.  I could certainly be wrong, but the last I remember was the "will he won't he" commit at the very end of the early signing period and then saying that MU was no longer on the list.

I can appreciate that there may be some issues with a guy like Riley, but truly talented bigs are hard to come by.  Really hard to come by.  These are the types of players who get multiple chances and often end up carrying you.  I say go out and get him.

[bma725]

Regarding motivation, I am sure at 17 or 18 years old the motivation will be different when he is a bit older.  I know my motivation (regarding school work and whole lot of other things in life) was completely somewhere else as a freshman than as a senior.  We can take him on with the clear warning that he needs to work on his work ethic.  If he meets the expectations then keep him, if he is a lazy sob, throw him back.  scholarship committments are for one year, from what i understand. 

I do not know what you are referring to regarding his AAU team. please do tell. 

If you have questions about a kid's motivation in high school, especially at a time when literally his entire future depends on his ability to motivate himself to his full potential, run away.  It would be different if Riley had played with great agression and intensity before, but he never has at any level.  That's not exact something you can learn.  You are either born with it or your aren't.  Wade had it, Diener had it...and they had it well before they got to MU.  Guys like Dameon Mason, Carlton Christian, James Matthews etc didn't...and it showed the second they got on the court.  No amount of coaching can give you something you didn't have to begin with.

As far as the AAU team, the main issue is who the team is connected to.  Riley now plays for "The Family" a Nike team that is connected to World Wide Wes.  Riley was recruited to play for that team after being part of Team Detroit, and Wes apparently did the recruiting in person.  That's why Michigan got out of the Riley recruiting.  They got sick of Wes's games and demands, and decided Riley wasn't worth the hassle.  MU hasn't really been involved with one of Wes's players before, who knows how Buzz will handle it.  

[MR.HAYWARD]

Haha did you ever think that maybe Crean had something to do with getting those things that gave him an advantage in recruiting over our past coaches?  It's not like the coaches before him tried really hard to get better practice facilities and get into a better conference and failed, and then Crean walked in and all of a sudden Marquette decided we would make a new practice facility and the Big East invited us in without reason.  Crean worked hard and got Marquette those things.

Valiant effort at putting down Crean though.  I dislike him because of how he left just as much as the next guy, but you're trying to take away the things he clearly did for this program.

wadesworld...you might be right...kudos to Crean for getting those things done.  but getting them done and using them to your advantage are two different things.  our last 4 recruiting classes were down right rotten!!.  my point was oneil had absolutely nothing to recruit to except for tradition and the Bradley Center.  recent success was poor and the facilities were rotten...remeber the place ...the biltmore?...the players were living in?  my point was Oniel had no little to attract kids and brought in 4 top 100 kids his first year and followed those classes with some other reaaly strong ones bring ing in the like s of gates, miller, mccaskill, crawford, eford,lpeiper, smith and many more fine players look at where oneills players stand on all the all time lists ...he brought in alot of damn good players in a short period.  in 5 years he brought in 3 pros.  same number Crean brought in in a tenure almost twice as long.  and he did not seem to have the all or nothing issues with signing players like Crean did we had years where good players  like Crawfors and Peiper, Hutchins, Abraham etc had to bide there time on the bench as juniors and seniors played ahead of them.  With Crean any good player was an instant starter becuase we had 5 stumblebums on the bench that people wondered why we even offered them a scolarship.  like i said before oneill recruited creans socks off with infinitely poorer resources/situation.  so far Buzz has recruited crean's socks off with equal. 

[TVDirector]

What I'm saying is that I don't think he's an upgrade from what we have next year with Otule and McMorrow at center and with Maymon and Roseboro coming in at the power forward....

let's face it... McMorrow is a complete unknown.. nary any basketball background- we hear he's athletic and know he's tall.

Roseboro?  the next Grimm??  another unknown.  under the radar until he played in NYC this summer...

Otule seems capable of improvement- again, not more than a 3 star recruit- but big, in the system currently, and gaining the trust of his current team mates.

Jeronne- we've seen him in HS and there's a lot to like... but he was also tabbed by some a bit of a headcase (more for his dad, perhaps?) or academic question mark- still tbd.

so, we'll have one guy with d1 experience next year, a former very tall hockey player who just took up hoops, a big white guy from the hotbed of hoops; the poconos, and a 6 8ish manchild who should? qualify academically---

hmmm
I take Riley in a nanosecond, as his upside at the 4/5 seems greater than what we have, and his 'baggage' is no heavier than what's on the roster next season.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

wadesworld...you might be right...kudos to Crean for getting those things done.  but getting them done and using them to your advantage are two different things.  our last 4 recruiting classes were down right rotten!!.  my point was oneil had absolutely nothing to recruit to except for tradition and the Bradley Center.  recent success was poor and the facilities were rotten...remeber the place ...the biltmore?...the players were living in?  my point was Oniel had no little to attract kids and brought in 3 top 100 kids his first year and followed those classes with some other reaaly strong ones bring ing in the like s of gates, miller, mccaskill, crawford, eford,lpeiper, smith and many more fine players look at where oneills players stand on all the all time lists ...he brought in alot of damn good players in a short period.  in 5 years he brought in 3 pros.  same number Crean brought in in a tenure almost twice as long.  and he did not seem to have the all or nothing issues with signing players like Crean did we had years where good players  like Crawfors and Peiper, Hutchins, Abraham etc had to bide there time on the bench as juniors and seniors played ahead of them.  With Crean any good player was an instant starter becuase we had 5 stumblebums on the bench that people wondered why we even offered them a scolarship.  like i said before oneill recruited creans socks off with infinitely poorer resources/situation.  so far Buzz has recruited crean's socks off with equal. 

I really don't want to start a Crean debate... but I will say that if the argument is that Tom Crean couldn't recruit and had some crappy talent (using O'Neil as a baseline), then the next logical progression would be to say that Crean was a better x and o's coach because he won more big games than O'Neil did.

I don't really want to get into a debate, because obviously nobody is going to magically change their mind... but I thought I should point out the obvious.

Anyways, as far as high school players with baggage and whatnot, well, I think that is part of the 1000 variables I mentioned in this thread previously.

Buzz will have to weigh the risk/reward factor of taking a player like this. One thing is for sure though, no matter what happens, Buzz will get second-guessed... that's the nature of being a head coach.

[MR.HAYWARD]

Crean was a better x's and o's coach becuase he won more big games? 

what??

Oneills teams were outstanding  when he got the program rolling and i will be the first one to say oneill neve lost games by 20-30 points like Crean teams did becuase the defense was so much better. 

Go back and look at the mids oneill signed on  ayea rto year basis given his situation and it is down right amazing.  to then bring x's and o's becuase Crean won "more big games"  is a strange comment to say the least.

[downtown85]

If you have questions about a kid's motivation in high school, especially at a time when literally his entire future depends on his ability to motivate himself to his full potential, run away.  It would be different if Riley had played with great agression and intensity before, but he never has at any level.  That's not exact something you can learn.  You are either born with it or your aren't.  

You are probably right.  You want somebody to come in with killer instinct or a gym rat work ethic or both.  It would be asking a lot for those attributes to develop miraculously overnight.  The question is whether Buzz will risk bringing in someone with potential attitude problems with the hope he can overcome these issues.  In this case, he seems like a "big man project with skills" because he lacks the motivation.   I guess the question is whether Riley will ever be motivated by anything or not.  Reminds me potentially of the Caracter situation at Loserville.  

Thanks for the info on the AAU situation.  

If we do get him, perhaps Buzz will be tough and say, no guaranteed starting spot, no guaranteed scholarship beyond one year, no entourage, keep up the academics, meet certain strength and conditioning goals, meet certain on the court goals, etc., etc.  If he buys into it, the tough love approach may work.  In Caracter's case, it didn't, but there are other cases where it seemed to have helped.  

It will be interesting to see what happens because there is apparantly an scholly offer on the table to the kid.  

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Crean was a better x's and o's coach becuase he won more big games? 

what??

Oneills teams were outstanding  when he got the program rolling and i will be the first one to say oneill neve lost games by 20-30 points like Crean teams did becuase the defense was so much better. 

Go back and look at the mids oneill signed on  ayea rto year basis given his situation and it is down right amazing.  to then bring x's and o's becuase Crean won "more big games"  is a strange comment to say the least.

I'm just using your own logic.

You claim that O'Neil got better players than Crean. (Your premise, correct?)

Crean won more games than O'Neil (the FF run, the CUSA regular season title, a lot of BEAST wins in a tough conference)

Therefore, Crean has to be a better coach. How else did he win in a tougher conference(s) with worse players?

I'm not saying I believe this... I'm just saying this is what your logic is indicating, right?

Or, please just tell me how you think Tom Crean won games... because this is what I've gathered 1. he couldn't recruit, 2. he wasn't a good x and o's coach

I would say that in the list of things I want a coach to be good at, those are numbers 1 and 2 and you seem to be claiming our former coach couldn't do either.

Was it magic? Luck? His tan?

*Also, please do not just jump to another thread, I do want to hear your logic*

[4everwarriors]

So World Wide Wes of The Family and Kool Aid Perry are handlers? Who thinks up these names?

[Novakisgod20]

I'm from southeast Michigan and have watched this kid play. Has a great frame and good tools. Already talented, and has the potential to get much bigger, and much better.

That being said, I've seen him disappear quite a few times in games he has played in. It blows me away for a kid that is nearly 7 feet tall, and that has an unbelievable cast around him that is happy to give him the ball.

If he comes to MU, great. If not, oh well. We aren't missing the next Greg Oden here.

[bma725]

So World Wide Wes of The Family and Kool Aid Perry are handlers? Who thinks up these names?

Wes is connected to the Family, not a part of it.  The team is funded by Rip Hamilton, Wes is "friend" of Hamilton.  By most accounts, Wes is the most powerful man in basketball, whether it's high school, college or the NBA.  He's more than just a handler, he's a man that controls player movements, player endorsements, high school choices, college choices etc. 

At some point, if you want to be one of the elite teams in basketball(regardless of level) you're going to run into Wes.   Play the game, and you'll get the players(see Memphis).  Don't and you can forget about a lot of high profile guys.  It all comes down to whether you are willing to sell your soul for some wins.

[OneMadWarrior]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't getting Riley mean we aren't getting Jamil Wilson in March?

Don't forget about that great rumor that he's waiting to find out who from MU is leaving and then will announce he's going to MU.

Or...did Jamil commit somewhere yet? I didn't think he did.

You are killing Barbaro

[Marquette_g]

Wes is connected to the Family, not a part of it.  The team is funded by Rip Hamilton, Wes is "friend" of Hamilton.  By most accounts, Wes is the most powerful man in basketball, whether it's high school, college or the NBA.  He's more than just a handler, he's a man that controls player movements, player endorsements, high school choices, college choices etc. 

At some point, if you want to be one of the elite teams in basketball(regardless of level) you're going to run into Wes.   Play the game, and you'll get the players(see Memphis).  Don't and you can forget about a lot of high profile guys.  It all comes down to whether you are willing to sell your soul for some wins.

Not the most recent articles, but these get the point across.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/05/sports/basketball/05wesley.html?_r=1&pagewanted=2&ref=sports

http://men.style.com/gq/features/landing?id=content_5735

http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-28-216/William-Wesley--Tyreke-Evans--John-Calipari--and-Memphis.html

[MR.HAYWARD]

I'm just using your own logic.

You claim that O'Neil got better players than Crean. (Your premise, correct?)

Crean won more games than O'Neil (the FF run, the CUSA regular season title, a lot of BEAST wins in a tough conference)

Therefore, Crean has to be a better coach. How else did he win in a tougher conference(s) with worse players?

I'm not saying I believe this... I'm just saying this is what your logic is indicating, right?

Or, please just tell me how you think Tom Crean won games... because this is what I've gathered 1. he couldn't recruit, 2. he wasn't a good x and o's coach

I would say that in the list of things I want a coach to be good at, those are numbers 1 and 2 and you seem to be claiming our former coach couldn't do either.

Was it magic? Luck? His tan?

*Also, please do not just jump to another thread, I do want to hear your logic*

sorry but that is a really dumb connection.  So you are then saying Oneill did not win big games??!! Oneil won alot of really big games.  Incuding a conference title in the GMC conference which at the time was absolutely loaded and if I recall it was the 31 rated conference in the country at that time. 

[tower912]

Mr Hayward, your grammatical errors are usually entertaining, but did you really mean the GMC was the 31st ranked conference at the time.   That places it in front of whom, exactly?

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

sorry but that is a really dumb connection.  So you are then saying Oneill did not win big games??!! Oneil won alot of really big games.  Incuding a conference title in the GMC conference which at the time was absolutely loaded and if I recall it was the 31 rated conference in the country at that time. 

OK, so you are saying Oneil was a better recruiter and better x and o's coach than Crean, right?

Then how the F did Tom Crean ever win a game? And if Oneil is so good, why didn't he lead MU to a final four? Also, the GMC was a good conference (we agree), but so was CUSA in 2003 when Crean's team won it.

Also, how many pre-season tournaments did Oneil win? How many were his teams even invited to? (and don't give me some line about hanging banners or some crap... those tournaments DO count for something, that's why the best schools play in them every year).

Listen, to be clear, I think Oneil is a hell of a coach and did a TON for MU. I'm not attempting to take anything away from him.

I'm just really, really struggling to follow your logic. You seem to think Oneil is better in every aspect, but Crean's numbers are arguably better. If Oneil is so much better, how is it even close?

[CTWarrior]

O'Neill took over a disaster.  Majerus and then particularly Dukiet took the program over a cliff.  Things weren't great when Crean took over, but they weren't in near as bad shape when he took over because of O'Neill.  I think O'Neill was a better recruiter than Crean, especially considering where he started and where he finished.  His lesser recruits (guys like Abel Joseph, Richard Shaw, etc) were better than the end of the bench guys Crean recruited.  O'Neill, I think, if he had stayed, had us in a position to be regular top 25 team year in and year out.  

But he didn't stay.  He bailed even quicker than Crean did and for a lesser job than Crean left for.  Also, while I enjoyed us winning again, his teams played an awful, boring brand of half court, slug it out basketball.  Think current Big 10.  I think eventually that may have caught up to him in recruiting.  

In the end, I have a hard time deciding which one was better overall.  O'Neill saved us from the abyss and Crean raised our profile even further.  They both did a great job for the university, but both abandoned us.  Hard to give O'Neill extra credit just because Crean's jilting is fresher in our memory.  

[Kramerica]

Why does every thread have to turn into an arguement of how terrible Crean was?  Can't we just be thankful for what he did for the program, be pissed that he left and move on? 

[mu03eng]

I'm not saying I would be disappointed if we landed Riley, but I would be concerned.

I love Buzz and I think he is going to be a great one for MU, but you have to ask how much he can bite off.  Next year without Riley he will have only 3 seniors and 5 1st year D1 players on the roster.  Everyone this year acquiesces to the Big 4 because they have been there done that....next year there will only be Hayward with any obvious leadership credentials.  The clubhouse chemistry is going to be critical next year with a young team, I don't know that you want to introduce yet another potential chemistry issue in Riley.  If we get Riley and Cubes leaves as a result(big if) then we will have 6 new players and only 2 seniors(Acker and Hayward).  Seems like a lot for Buzz to handle in only his 2nd year as the head coach.

[MU B2002]

Why does every thread have to turn into an arguement of how terrible Crean was?  Can't we just be thankful for what he did for the program, be pissed that he left and move on? 

+1
Because what does this have to do with Dashonte Riley, a Buzz Williams recruit?  Past is the past, bigs are the future.

[MR.HAYWARD]

sorry guys did not try to turn the thread into a "how terrible Crean was thread".  Unfortunaely what happens when someone says Oneil in their own opinion a better recruiter, and I stated why i thought that to be the case.  Gets attacks by people that feel they need to defend the honor of one Tommy Naismith.  to the point of staements like this ...."Then how the F did Tom Crean ever win a game? And if Oneil is so good, why didn't he lead MU to a final four? Also, the GMC was a good conference (we agree), but so was CUSA in 2003 when Crean's team won it."

Now where did I ever say tom Crean was such a terrible recruiter he would never win a agme?  never siad that i said i felt Oneill was abetter recruiter.  

If Oneil is so good why no final 4?  ok now i am not sure what staement/question is more rediculous ...crean never winning  agme or the list of great coaches that did not take a team to the final 4 in their first 5 years.  simply ludicrous, i could counter that with "well then why hasnt Tommy Naismith coached in the NBA", but that would be equally adolescent.

Then saying Crean won a conference titel too, Ok great i have not forgotten that was at probably 15 games that year.  And how should that effect my opinion that Oneill brought in more quality talent over a shorter time, had fewer duds, with vastly less to work with which is how i formulated my opinion that Oneill was a much better recruiter?  

also, yes i did mean #1 conference not 31 #1 sans the caps button.

Let me throw this out there....cowering as a TC defender attacks...could I possibly throw out there an opinion  that Buzz Williams is better at getting Big Men to Mu than The Great One.  Now I realize Buzz has never won a conference title or been to a final 4 ...but i am beginning to form the opinion that Buzz will ge t more and better bigs that Tommy Naismith.  Commence the attacks in defense of our former coach for my blasphemy