We were no longer recruiting Jamil Wilson...now I have no freaking idea....

[avid1010]

One has a rising stock the other has a declining...  I'm alright with the choice.  All the best to both of them, and it seems like Buzz handled it with class.

[Doctor V]

Best of luck to him at MSU or Texas, but MU got the real prize when Maymon committed.  Wilson through no fault of his own has been over-rated since he entered HS.  It doesn't make him a bad kid but it does make him a less than desired recruit.  He is not anywhere near the program changer that people have made him out to be.

less than desired recruit? i guess i didnt realize the point at which the 2nd best player in the state was not good enough for MU. also, someone posted that sometimes you take a pass on a highly touted recruit if he doesnt fit- some schools can do that, but in my opinion Marquette cannot. Its not like we get top 100 kids everyday

i really hope buzz didnt take it personal and pass on the kid because he didnt show up to madness.

bottom line is that I would be very surprised if roseboro ends up being a better college basketball player than wilson, but i hope im wrong. and in my opinion, i believe you take the best players possible and coach them- you almost have to the way other BE teams are recruiting

[77ncaachamps]

I think it was a smart move to nab Roseboro if Buzz believes he fits his 4 spot.

If Wilson drags this on until the Spring, there's no doubt that we'd have a "last minute Crean fill-in." And I think that was what Buzz wanted to avoid.

[bilsu]

less than desired recruit? i guess i didnt realize the point at which the 2nd best player in the state was not good enough for MU. also, someone posted that sometimes you take a pass on a highly touted recruit if he doesnt fit- some schools can do that, but in my opinion Marquette cannot. Its not like we get top 100 kids everyday

bottom line is that I would be very surprised if roseboro ends up being a better college basketball player than wilson, but i hope im wrong. and in my opinion, i believe you take the best players possible and coach them- you almost have to the way other BE teams are recruiting

We all know that MU's current team is unbalanced. It is not a question of whether Wilson is better than Roseboro. It is a question of whether Wilson is better than Williams or Maymon. MU has 3 commitments from top 100 players, so who is to say at this point that under Buzz we will not continue to get top 100 recruits.

[THEGYMBAR]

I will believe Wilson is gone when he is gone. 90% of the posters on here were anti Maymon six months ago and now think he is best recruiter and best player in Wisconsin. Jamil Wilson still is the #1 talent in the state.

I will wait to see closure before I say this case is closed. Based on most posts regarding Wilson since spring it is not a big loss if we did stop recruiting him to most. Signing a top recruit in your backyard is always in your best interest, even if the kid is a bust. Look at UW, they sign every stiff white kid in the state. That is their thing. I would like to see signing every top talent in the state as MU's thing.

[The Lens]

Bilsu hit the nail on the head, we have two really good wings in teh fold already.  This isn't the NFL where you take the best available and trade off assets.  On top of that I have talked with some pretty successfull HS coaches in WI and they say, it's easilly Maymon over Wilson.   Coaches seem frustrated with Wilson's play. 

Furthermore, I love Wes, but what if TC signed another big man instead of him?  Wouldn't that have put MU in a better spot to compete for the BE title this year?

[ATWizJr]

Gymbar, et. al. -

I, too would like MU to be the 800 lb. BB recruiting gorilla in the state.  We all would.

But recruiting is a two way street.  Wilson has had every opportunity to commit but is inexplicably non-committal.  And he has gone out of his way to be so.

Would you prefer that MU wait until March when Wilson may feel like making a decision and possibly selecting MU?  What if he then does not select MU?  Where does that leave Buzz?  Better for MU to walk away first. In my opinion, Wilson has blown it.

[MR.HAYWARD]

I think ATWiz hits the nail on the head, in a n aspect that has not been discussed.  Mu dimitri...have you been frustrated with Crean signing guard after guard after guard and no bigs?  who you like Buzz to sign 3/4 types to the point that we have no interior or ball handlers?  Mu needs to sign some bigs and a guard at this point.  We have addressed the situation at the 3/4 for the next 4 years with Fulce, Maymon and Williams.  Signing another is to a degree a waste of a scholie.  If wilson is so great than we wasted a scholie on the one of the 4 that plays the least.  When that scholie could have then be better used for a big or a guard.  not to mention the fact that depending on what service you look at Maymon and Williams are both more highly regarded than Wilson.   But again At Wiz was pretty much spot on.. in the regard that Wilson has had more than ample time to commit and at what point does waiting around for him at the risk of losing other commitments no longer worth it?  I think Buzz obviously made that call with Roseboro.  bird in the hand theory or we can sit around forever and lose Roseboro or other guys that want to commit and Wislson never does.  Then poeple like Nola get to spout on about how Buzz is over his head and should have never been hired and how the "Wilson Situtaution' is evidence of where a young inexperienced coach 'played it wrong" and should have moved ahead long ago for a more pressing need of a big.  Please if you know a kid will make your team better and he wants to sign...you sign him!!

[THEGYMBAR]

ATWiz----How can 18y old kid blow it? He stated for quite some time he was signing in the spring, that is his right. It now seems he make decision earlier. We already have a great recruiting class and really did NOT need to sign anyone else. So, why not wait and see with the local stud.

We had no need to take a flier on a relatively new guy on the radar screen. We have two current signed big men that are fliers at best. Why make it a trifecta? Buzz should be patient and recruit from strength. Wilson makes us better his first day on campus. Does Roseboro? Jury is out.

Recruiting big guys is great. Recruiting athletic studs is better.

[NYWarrior]

We had no need to take a flier on a relatively new guy on the radar screen. We have two current signed big men that are fliers at best. Why make it a trifecta? Buzz should be patient and recruit from strength. Wilson makes us better his first day on campus. Does Roseboro? Jury is out.

Considering that Fulce, Maymon and Erik Williams will also be on campus next fall -- how does adding another SF/WF, albeit a talented one, make the team better?  It seems to me it might make that position deeper, but the team in fact might suffer because of a redundant talent pool.  With three forwards (four if you figure Butler can swing out there once in a while) and two centers in the fold, one thing MU lacked before the Roseboro verbal was a '4' that brings height, girth and the ability to play away from the basket, if not on the blocks

Simply put, tripling down on the combo forward slot in one class because Wilson might be a better prospect (but not as good of a fit for the roster as Roseboro) would not actually improve Buzz' hand.

[nola03]

The other issue that no one seems yet to have mentioned is that Roseboro will play straight away due to the dearth of options at the 4. Whilst I feel Wilson has the talent to get minutes anywhere on the court, we're going to have a clusterunnatural carnal knowledge situation next season with 7-8 guys for 3 spots. Perhaps the Buzz saw this and decided he should nab a tall 4 whilst he could and then press for Colvin as his guard since he could play the 1 better then Wilson.

Let's not fool ourselves. Wilson didn't lose a numbers game at MU. He would have gotten on the floor in any situation. He simply lost a game of patience -- Tom Crean had it; Buzz didn't.

[THEGYMBAR]

NYWarrior---Tripling down on an out of stater would be foolish. But, I believe we need to secure the borders and work out from that. If and when a top 20 kid is from WI we should want to get him. Letting another one get away would be a mistake.

In addition, high school numbers and ratings are great. But we all know that every recruit that is highly rated does make a great BE player. I remember great excitement when Walter Downing transferred to MU. You never know how they progress in college. If it was me I would start with a known commodity, talent, and take my chances.

[Blackhat]

Wilson's not a top 20 player.   I know Rivals has him at 90 something after the summer AAU session.    We got the better player and #1 wisconsin recuit judged by the local and national guys in Maymon at the 3/4.   We didn't need Wilson after we got Maymon and E Williams and even more so after Wilson's lackluster summer.   He doesn't bring a skill set that we won't already have, Roseboro does. 

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

If it was me I would start with a known commodity, talent, and take my chances.

Didn't Buzz do that?

Couldn't Wilson have verbaled before last week? It's not like Buzz stopped recruiting him months ago.

If you are suggesting that MU wait until Wilson decides (could be spring), then that would be going against your "known commodity" statement above. At this point, waiting for Wilson is a risk (not the known commodity).

Now, I'm not saying all risks are bad, but obviously the coaching staff didn't want to keep waiting and end up with nothing.

[shaquilvaine]

Nola.. I think you hit the nail on the head.  TC's approach was to go all out for his top priorities, often resulting in lack-luster backup plans if the top options didn't pan out.  TC appeared to be willing to wait for his top recruits all the while making them feel the love of the recruiting process.  Buzz appears to have a different style.  From the get go he approached Jamil differently, and I'm told this initially really turned the family off.  While I personally would have loved to see Jamil in an MU uniform, Buzz was more of the mindset that he was going to take those players who really wanted to be at MU and take them early.  Jamil cooled on MU after first meeting Buzz, but then when the interest may have been picking up, it appears jamil was too late.  It would've been tough to beat MSU in the long run, but I heard from a reliable source that Jamil was still interested in MU as early as a week ago, but it sounds like the Roseboro commit closed that door.  We should hear Jamil to MSU in the near future. 

[muarmy81]

Recruiting big guys is great. Recruiting athletic studs is better.

Which is why it probably isn't a big deal to recruit the east coast hard...leave the stiff white guys to UW and we can expand our recruiting into other areas with more talent...NY, Philly, TX, etc.

I really don't think this is a bad play.  We landed Maymon and balanced out our 09 class rather well. 

[jce]

NYWarrior---Tripling down on an out of stater would be foolish. But, I believe we need to secure the borders and work out from that. If and when a top 20 kid is from WI we should want to get him. Letting another one get away would be a mistake.

First, he is not top 20.

Second, the "securing the borders" issue is really a lame one.  Using that logic, as I believe you did earlier this year, we would have offered Johnny Lacy.  Instead we got Junior Cadougan who seems to be the much better basketball player and much better student.  If you get obsessed with "securing the borders," you end up focusing on players who may not be the best options available.

[MR.HAYWARD]

Totally agree with the securing the border being a doomsday approach.  UW-Madison has secured the border in BBall fro 110 years and until recently was the 2nd worst team in the history of the Big 10.  maybe numbers wise they staill are.  although they have been decent as of late.  But for the most part they did not get there recently with Wisocnsin talent anyway.  Their best players have been from illionois and elswhere. 
While Wisco prep hoops has gotten better it has for decades been a virtual talent wasteland. If you secure the borders and sign the best 4 players from the state every year you will not be very good.  Mu needs to pick and choose who they recruit from the state and hopefully we have good success with them.  Academics are alos a big issue with most Wisoc recruits especially the ones from SE wisco.

If Mu was in Indiana, Illinois, texas or Cali, or Ny we could recruit from within and secure the borders but for the most part we dont want what is within the borders especially if it meeans you have to wait around while other viable candidates are signing with other schools. Buzz has already expreeseed frustration that he is spending an inordinate amount of time on the 2009 class and would like to be spending more time on the class of 2010.  buzz seems to be taking the taking the tell me yes or tell me no cause i gotta go approach to recruitng ala AL.  So far it is the best recruitng class since the 1990 class of Key, mcilvaine, etc.  probably better.     

[4everwarriors]

Well put. History shows high school hoops in WI turns out good offensive linemen. Once in a blue moon there's a bonafide bluechipper and we got him this year in Maymon who is the best baller from WI since Caron Butler.

[wadesworld]

Well put. History shows high school hoops in WI turns out good offensive linemen. Once in a blue moon there's a bonafide bluechipper and we got him this year in Maymon who is the best baller from WI since Caron Butler.

I wouldn't claim that quite yet.  Devin Harris is getting a lot of publicity and has been since the Nets traded Jason Kidd to get him.  He's doing alright for himself when it comes to basketball.  Not to mention Steve Novak and Travis Diener are making some dollars.  I'd be very happy if Maymon ends up in the same place as Diener, Novak, and Harris.  Jerry Smith could also get there.

[jce]

Well put. History shows high school hoops in WI turns out good offensive linemen. Once in a blue moon there's a bonafide bluechipper and we got him this year in Maymon who is the best baller from WI since Caron Butler.

Many people get the "securing the borders" logic from the Wisconsin football program, which for years would get its best players poached by Iowa, Michigan, etc.  Barry Alvarez talked about securing the borders more as a matter of pride more than anything else.  And while this state produces a good amount of linemen and effort type walk-ons, he knew that by and large you had to go out of state to get talent.

For Marquette, basketball should be different.  We will never be the most popular program in the state.  We have to cast a wider net or else we will be left with a sub-standard line-up.  I don't think the state has put together a complete class like Logtermann, Key and McIlvaine since that time - and remember at that time, Wisconsin was dealing with Steve Yoder who was a terrible recruiter.

[MR.HAYWARD]

agreed and in response to the poster that mentioned Novak, diener, etc.  You basically named one player from a particualr year and you named 4-5 guys from the last 10 years!  Typically recruitng class is 3-4.  If you look at the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th best players from those years you would be staring at abunch of kids that went to Uw-Stout and the like or went to UW-Madison and did nothing.  Wisco puts out 1 high major player a year at best, some years none.  This year it has 2 which is a bumper crop for Wisco.  A state like Illinois will put out 5-10 a year.  A state like indiana will have some down years but for the most part will be in the 4-8 range, producing kids like Deonta Vaughn who get completely overshadowed by the likes OF a dominic james, Luke zeller ( granted a bust), and Josh Mcroberts in a given year.

[MuMark]

I'm not going to say that WI is a basketball hotbed by any means but Mr. Hayward's assertion that in most years WI produces 1 or zero high major college players is just not true.

Now we can debate on how good some of the high major players turn out to be but in every year since 2004 WI has produced 2 or more players who signed with major colleges.

2004 Weaver, Flowers, Steimsma, and Dave Bliss
2005 Landry and Matthews
2006 Jerry Smith, Hughes, Gavinski, and Mitchell Carter
2007 Nankivil, Garrett, Jarmusz, Chistopherson, and  Buycks
2008 Lucious and Mitchell

[ATWizJr]

Gymbar, how did he blow it?  

Pretty obvious, isn't it?  

He could have spoken up and been a member of this MU recruiting class and playing in the BE!  His age has nothing to do with it.  And you are correct, he has the right to wait until the spring and he also has the right, which he exercised, to not be part of this class and not be playing in the BE.  To my mind that is blowing it.

We may not be Texas, which I surmise is still on his short list. but we're also not a Texas-Arlington who has to wait around to see if Mr. Wilson will favor us with a glance.

[ecompt]

Look, I loved Travis and Stevie, but I think Al had the best recuiting methods. He would grab some local kids to keep the alumni happy, but he knew the best players were going to come from outside the state. Realistically, if you took the four best players from WI every year so that by your fourth year you had an all-Wisconsin roster, where would you finish in the BE? I'd guess 10th.