MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: drbchilds on October 28, 2008, 01:03:16 PM
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It's not because we felt we were out of it, but more due to the fact that we already have his position covered with 3 forwards. A little disappointing, but I still feel even if Snaer or Colvin don't sign, this is still one of the best classes we have ever had.
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I know that we were recruiting him up till Marquette Madness. He was scheduled to be in attendance, and for whatever reason, decided not to show up. I have a friend who was in charge of waiting for him and his family at the Al left hanging. This was more of his choice, than ours.
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If I'm not mistaken, his volleyball team played until later in the day Saturday, so he had no choice but to miss it.
Regardless, with Roseboro on board, no need for his position. Hopefully the staff can lure Chris Colvin and put the finishing touches in a very strong class.
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I know that we were recruiting him up till Marquette Madness. He was scheduled to be in attendance, and for whatever reason, decided not to show up. I have a friend who was in charge of waiting for him and his family at the Al left hanging. This was more of his choice, than ours.
After the scrimmage there was a big kid with H on the back of his letterman jacket on the floor. I thought that might have been him? Any idea's?
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With Roseboro, MU now has three forwards in the 2009 class. The main reason...?
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Anybody have a source or is this just pure speculation?
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Anybody have a source or is this just pure speculation?
Not sure if it's just speculation, but Dr. Childs historically has been very accurate with his information.
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Mark Miller's Site had it:
http://www.wissports.net/sports/hoopsb/blog/message.aspx?f=123&id=963691
(http://www.wissports.net/sports/hoopsb/blog/message.aspx?f=123&id=963691)
Marquette University has pulled out of the recruiting sweepstakes for Racine Horlick senior Jamil Wilson.
Horlick coach Jason Treutelaar confirmed today Marquette coach Buzz Williams called Wilson and his father on Monday evening with the news the Golden Eagles were no longer actively recruiting the talented 6-foot-7 senior.
Marquette received a verbal commitment from 6-9 senior Brett Roseboro of Quakertown, Pennsylvania, on Saturday, which in effect ended the Golden Eagles’ pursuit of Wilson. Marquette had previously received verbal commitments from forwards Jeronne Maymon of Madison Memorial and Erik Williams of Houston, along with guards Junior Cadougan of Houston and Dwight Buycks of Indian Hills Community College and Milwaukee Bay View.
Michigan State appears to be the current leader for Wilson, who is ranked No. 2 among state prospects in the class of 2009 by Wishoops.net. Oregon and Texas also remain in the hunt for Wilson, who may take an official visit to Oregon on Nov. 6-7.
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Mark Miller's Site had it:
http://www.wissports.net/sports/hoopsb/blog/message.aspx?f=123&id=963691
(http://www.wissports.net/sports/hoopsb/blog/message.aspx?f=123&id=963691)
Marquette University has pulled out of the recruiting sweepstakes for Racine Horlick senior Jamil Wilson.
Horlick coach Jason Treutelaar confirmed today Marquette coach Buzz Williams called Wilson and his father on Monday evening with the news the Golden Eagles were no longer actively recruiting the talented 6-foot-7 senior.
Marquette received a verbal commitment from 6-9 senior Brett Roseboro of Quakertown, Pennsylvania, on Saturday, which in effect ended the Golden Eagles’ pursuit of Wilson. Marquette had previously received verbal commitments from forwards Jeronne Maymon of Madison Memorial and Erik Williams of Houston, along with guards Junior Cadougan of Houston and Dwight Buycks of Indian Hills Community College and Milwaukee Bay View.
Michigan State appears to be the current leader for Wilson, who is ranked No. 2 among state prospects in the class of 2009 by Wishoops.net. Oregon and Texas also remain in the hunt for Wilson, who may take an official visit to Oregon on Nov. 6-7.
Oregon? Boy the last few months have really limited his options. I bet if he could do this entire thing over, he would have declared much earlier.
On an interesting side note, I coached against the other kid mentioned in the article - Mike Boebel from Marshall - when he was in sixth grade. You could see then what a player he was. Glad to see he's getting a scholie somewhere.
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hopefully im wrong about this one, but it seems a bit odd to take a relatively unknown kid who has 'blown up' in the past 2 months than to pursue a top 100 kid in your back yard that you may have had a very good shot at snagging. I cant doubt Buzz in this aspect because we havent seen any of his recruits yet, so i hope he's right on this one. Maybe he knew jamil was headed to MSU?
I think its a bit risky to take a kid who has impressed in the last month over one who has impressed over the last 2 yrs but dropped in the last few months- maybe one is on the way up and the other on the way down, but we are talking about a top 100 kid and a top 300 kid, with the top 100 kid being local and the 2nd best player in your state. Maybe this is why coachs have scouts i suppose. And even if Roseboro impresses everyone and lives upto the coachs expectations, does even that make him better than Wilson?? We shall see
Heres to hoping Roseboro is the stuff the staff thinks he is
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Roseboro is a better fit in that his skill set is different than Wilson's and he thus fits in better with Maymon and Erik Williams.
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Roseboro is a better fit in that his skill set is different than Wilson's and he thus fits in better with Maymon and Erik Williams.
you are confident that he is a better fit? if you are then im on board. however, having different skill set doesnt make you a better fit. I have always thought that college basketball was about taking the best players possible, with keeping in mind academic and personal concerns (amoroso, mason, mbakwe, etc etc) I believe that if you take the best players, they can fill their different roles. That said, you dont want 5 of the same type of player on the same team.
However, ill give an extreme example. Some might say, and said last season, that mo acker's pass first type of skill set where he sets everyone up better fits this teams style than DJ's because of DJ's erratic play and shoot first mentality at times. That, to me, is pure bullocks. Id take DJ any day in the lineup over acker, as id take a top 100 player over a top 300 player and then find a way to make it fit
I know i know thats why the recruiters are there and the rankings arent always a good representation. All im saying is that conceptually, if Wilson is much more skilled than Roseboro like the rankings say, Id def go after Wilson, even if his 'skill set' wasnt what you were looking for to compliment everyone else.
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Roseboro is a better fit in that his skill set is different than Wilson's and he thus fits in better with Maymon and Erik Williams.
I think that is probably accurate.
I have never seen any of these kids play, so I cannot comment on specifics.
However, I can speculate that there is only 1 ball used in a regulation game, and only 40 minutes of game time. Therefore, I don't know if it's always the best decision to keep piling up a bunch of recruits who want/expect to play a lot.
I'm not saying MU shouldn't stockpile talent, but there is a fine line between getting talent and getting players that fit together.
We'll see if Buzz made the right call.
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Put it this way ... Wilson is much more like Erik Williams and Jeronne Maymon than Brett Roseboro.
Finding the right players with the right mental makeup is key along with finding the best players available.
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Wilson should have committed earlier. He goes from a top ten recruit to a much lower ranking. Goes from the best player in state, to the second. Loses his spot on a Big East team close to home to an unranked prospect from Quakerstown. Goes to probably bench warming at MSU and Texas, both of whom are loaded. Or, goes out to Oregon and is miserable being far away from home in a rural environment. Shame, he would have look good in blue and gold with his family rooting him on in the stands.
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Oregon? Boy the last few months have really limited his options. I bet if he could do this entire thing over, he would have declared much earlier.
On an interesting side note, I coached against the other kid mentioned in the article - Mike Boebel from Marshall - when he was in sixth grade. You could see then what a player he was. Glad to see he's getting a scholie somewhere.
I'd love to play for Oregon. Ernie Kent was one of my favorite speakers at clinics I go to, and these includes Roy Williams, Billy Donovan, Jim Calhoun etc. He has a player friendly offense, his teams have had success, and he's put players in the NBA.
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you are confident that he is a better fit? if you are then im on board. however, having different skill set doesnt make you a better fit. I have always thought that college basketball was about taking the best players possible, with keeping in mind academic and personal concerns (amoroso, mason, mbakwe, etc etc) I believe that if you take the best players, they can fill their different roles. That said, you dont want 5 of the same type of player on the same team.
However, ill give an extreme example. Some might say, and said last season, that mo acker's pass first type of skill set where he sets everyone up better fits this teams style than DJ's because of DJ's erratic play and shoot first mentality at times. That, to me, is pure bullocks. Id take DJ any day in the lineup over acker, as id take a top 100 player over a top 300 player and then find a way to make it fit
I know i know thats why the recruiters are there and the rankings arent always a good representation. All im saying is that conceptually, if Wilson is much more skilled than Roseboro like the rankings say, Id def go after Wilson, even if his 'skill set' wasnt what you were looking for to compliment everyone else.
Having a different skillset can absolutely make a player a better fit. You can't just have a bunch of perimeter shooters, or a bunch of slashers, or a bunch of inside guys etc. It limits what you can do offensively, and limits your ability to win games. To be successful at the highest levels, you need to have multiple players with multiple different abilities so that you don't get tied down into only being able to play one way.
Individually, Wilson probably is more skilled or more talented than Roseboro. But this isn't an individual game. The things he's good at are things that are already provided by Maymon, Williams, and to a lesser extent Fulce and Hayward. It's a nice idea to say you'd make it work with players of similar skills, but the reality is it generally doesn't work out. Not only is it very tough to get a player to adapt their game into something they generally aren't good at, it hampers the other players and the team as a whole because their abilities won't be utilized in the best way possible.
In order to maximize the talents of those other players, you need the variety that someone like Roseboro may provide. It would be a different story if Wilson were a highly ranked player based on ability as a great perimeter shooter, or if MU didn't already have the guys they do. But recruiting doesn't happen in a vacuum, you have to get players with abilities that mesh well....sometimes that means passing on a highly ranked kid.
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I know nothing, of course, but I trust Buzz on this one.
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I have no idea, but I wonder if Wilson not making midnight madness turned Buzz off. Buzz has repeatedly stated that he wants players who want to be at Marquette. If Wilson did not show up without calling Buzz, I would think that would turn Buzz off.
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I have no idea, but I wonder if Wilson not making midnight madness turned Buzz off. Buzz has repeatedly stated that he wants players who want to be at Marquette. If Wilson did not show up without calling Buzz, I would think that would turn Buzz off.
Right, so Buzz told him to "Buzz Off".
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Disappointing. But closure.
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Wilson is a tremendously gifted athlete-----I don't think he has received the type of coaching on the HS or AAu level that would allow him to develop on schedule-----if anyone can bring it out of him it's Izzo!
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I have no idea, but I wonder if Wilson not making midnight madness turned Buzz off. Buzz has repeatedly stated that he wants players who want to be at Marquette. If Wilson did not show up without calling Buzz, I would think that would turn Buzz off.
Jamil had a HS volleyball tournament that ended up going into Midnight Madness. If his team was out earlier he would have been there.
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Jamil had a HS volleyball tournament that ended up going into Midnight Madness. If his team was out earlier he would have been there.
I definitely do not doubt this. I coach high school volleyball in Wisconsin and varsity conference tournaments were this Saturday. I know for a fact that they played in the championship match. I'm not sure the format of their tournament, but if they were in the championship match they were probably there pretty late.
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Best of luck to him at MSU or Texas, but MU got the real prize when Maymon committed. Wilson through no fault of his own has been over-rated since he entered HS. It doesn't make him a bad kid but it does make him a less than desired recruit. He is not anywhere near the program changer that people have made him out to be.
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One has a rising stock the other has a declining... I'm alright with the choice. All the best to both of them, and it seems like Buzz handled it with class.
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Best of luck to him at MSU or Texas, but MU got the real prize when Maymon committed. Wilson through no fault of his own has been over-rated since he entered HS. It doesn't make him a bad kid but it does make him a less than desired recruit. He is not anywhere near the program changer that people have made him out to be.
less than desired recruit? i guess i didnt realize the point at which the 2nd best player in the state was not good enough for MU. also, someone posted that sometimes you take a pass on a highly touted recruit if he doesnt fit- some schools can do that, but in my opinion Marquette cannot. Its not like we get top 100 kids everyday
i really hope buzz didnt take it personal and pass on the kid because he didnt show up to madness.
bottom line is that I would be very surprised if roseboro ends up being a better college basketball player than wilson, but i hope im wrong. and in my opinion, i believe you take the best players possible and coach them- you almost have to the way other BE teams are recruiting
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I think it was a smart move to nab Roseboro if Buzz believes he fits his 4 spot.
If Wilson drags this on until the Spring, there's no doubt that we'd have a "last minute Crean fill-in." And I think that was what Buzz wanted to avoid.
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less than desired recruit? i guess i didnt realize the point at which the 2nd best player in the state was not good enough for MU. also, someone posted that sometimes you take a pass on a highly touted recruit if he doesnt fit- some schools can do that, but in my opinion Marquette cannot. Its not like we get top 100 kids everyday
bottom line is that I would be very surprised if roseboro ends up being a better college basketball player than wilson, but i hope im wrong. and in my opinion, i believe you take the best players possible and coach them- you almost have to the way other BE teams are recruiting
We all know that MU's current team is unbalanced. It is not a question of whether Wilson is better than Roseboro. It is a question of whether Wilson is better than Williams or Maymon. MU has 3 commitments from top 100 players, so who is to say at this point that under Buzz we will not continue to get top 100 recruits.
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I will believe Wilson is gone when he is gone. 90% of the posters on here were anti Maymon six months ago and now think he is best recruiter and best player in Wisconsin. Jamil Wilson still is the #1 talent in the state.
I will wait to see closure before I say this case is closed. Based on most posts regarding Wilson since spring it is not a big loss if we did stop recruiting him to most. Signing a top recruit in your backyard is always in your best interest, even if the kid is a bust. Look at UW, they sign every stiff white kid in the state. That is their thing. I would like to see signing every top talent in the state as MU's thing.
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Bilsu hit the nail on the head, we have two really good wings in teh fold already. This isn't the NFL where you take the best available and trade off assets. On top of that I have talked with some pretty successfull HS coaches in WI and they say, it's easilly Maymon over Wilson. Coaches seem frustrated with Wilson's play.
Furthermore, I love Wes, but what if TC signed another big man instead of him? Wouldn't that have put MU in a better spot to compete for the BE title this year?
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Gymbar, et. al. -
I, too would like MU to be the 800 lb. BB recruiting gorilla in the state. We all would.
But recruiting is a two way street. Wilson has had every opportunity to commit but is inexplicably non-committal. And he has gone out of his way to be so.
Would you prefer that MU wait until March when Wilson may feel like making a decision and possibly selecting MU? What if he then does not select MU? Where does that leave Buzz? Better for MU to walk away first. In my opinion, Wilson has blown it.
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I think ATWiz hits the nail on the head, in a n aspect that has not been discussed. Mu dimitri...have you been frustrated with Crean signing guard after guard after guard and no bigs? who you like Buzz to sign 3/4 types to the point that we have no interior or ball handlers? Mu needs to sign some bigs and a guard at this point. We have addressed the situation at the 3/4 for the next 4 years with Fulce, Maymon and Williams. Signing another is to a degree a waste of a scholie. If wilson is so great than we wasted a scholie on the one of the 4 that plays the least. When that scholie could have then be better used for a big or a guard. not to mention the fact that depending on what service you look at Maymon and Williams are both more highly regarded than Wilson. But again At Wiz was pretty much spot on.. in the regard that Wilson has had more than ample time to commit and at what point does waiting around for him at the risk of losing other commitments no longer worth it? I think Buzz obviously made that call with Roseboro. bird in the hand theory or we can sit around forever and lose Roseboro or other guys that want to commit and Wislson never does. Then poeple like Nola get to spout on about how Buzz is over his head and should have never been hired and how the "Wilson Situtaution' is evidence of where a young inexperienced coach 'played it wrong" and should have moved ahead long ago for a more pressing need of a big. Please if you know a kid will make your team better and he wants to sign...you sign him!!
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ATWiz----How can 18y old kid blow it? He stated for quite some time he was signing in the spring, that is his right. It now seems he make decision earlier. We already have a great recruiting class and really did NOT need to sign anyone else. So, why not wait and see with the local stud.
We had no need to take a flier on a relatively new guy on the radar screen. We have two current signed big men that are fliers at best. Why make it a trifecta? Buzz should be patient and recruit from strength. Wilson makes us better his first day on campus. Does Roseboro? Jury is out.
Recruiting big guys is great. Recruiting athletic studs is better.
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We had no need to take a flier on a relatively new guy on the radar screen. We have two current signed big men that are fliers at best. Why make it a trifecta? Buzz should be patient and recruit from strength. Wilson makes us better his first day on campus. Does Roseboro? Jury is out.
Considering that Fulce, Maymon and Erik Williams will also be on campus next fall -- how does adding another SF/WF, albeit a talented one, make the team better? It seems to me it might make that position deeper, but the team in fact might suffer because of a redundant talent pool. With three forwards (four if you figure Butler can swing out there once in a while) and two centers in the fold, one thing MU lacked before the Roseboro verbal was a '4' that brings height, girth and the ability to play away from the basket, if not on the blocks
Simply put, tripling down on the combo forward slot in one class because Wilson might be a better prospect (but not as good of a fit for the roster as Roseboro) would not actually improve Buzz' hand.
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The other issue that no one seems yet to have mentioned is that Roseboro will play straight away due to the dearth of options at the 4. Whilst I feel Wilson has the talent to get minutes anywhere on the court, we're going to have a clusterunnatural carnal knowledge situation next season with 7-8 guys for 3 spots. Perhaps the Buzz saw this and decided he should nab a tall 4 whilst he could and then press for Colvin as his guard since he could play the 1 better then Wilson.
Let's not fool ourselves. Wilson didn't lose a numbers game at MU. He would have gotten on the floor in any situation. He simply lost a game of patience -- Tom Crean had it; Buzz didn't.
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NYWarrior---Tripling down on an out of stater would be foolish. But, I believe we need to secure the borders and work out from that. If and when a top 20 kid is from WI we should want to get him. Letting another one get away would be a mistake.
In addition, high school numbers and ratings are great. But we all know that every recruit that is highly rated does make a great BE player. I remember great excitement when Walter Downing transferred to MU. You never know how they progress in college. If it was me I would start with a known commodity, talent, and take my chances.
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Wilson's not a top 20 player. I know Rivals has him at 90 something after the summer AAU session. We got the better player and #1 wisconsin recuit judged by the local and national guys in Maymon at the 3/4. We didn't need Wilson after we got Maymon and E Williams and even more so after Wilson's lackluster summer. He doesn't bring a skill set that we won't already have, Roseboro does.
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If it was me I would start with a known commodity, talent, and take my chances.
Didn't Buzz do that?
Couldn't Wilson have verbaled before last week? It's not like Buzz stopped recruiting him months ago.
If you are suggesting that MU wait until Wilson decides (could be spring), then that would be going against your "known commodity" statement above. At this point, waiting for Wilson is a risk (not the known commodity).
Now, I'm not saying all risks are bad, but obviously the coaching staff didn't want to keep waiting and end up with nothing.
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Nola.. I think you hit the nail on the head. TC's approach was to go all out for his top priorities, often resulting in lack-luster backup plans if the top options didn't pan out. TC appeared to be willing to wait for his top recruits all the while making them feel the love of the recruiting process. Buzz appears to have a different style. From the get go he approached Jamil differently, and I'm told this initially really turned the family off. While I personally would have loved to see Jamil in an MU uniform, Buzz was more of the mindset that he was going to take those players who really wanted to be at MU and take them early. Jamil cooled on MU after first meeting Buzz, but then when the interest may have been picking up, it appears jamil was too late. It would've been tough to beat MSU in the long run, but I heard from a reliable source that Jamil was still interested in MU as early as a week ago, but it sounds like the Roseboro commit closed that door. We should hear Jamil to MSU in the near future.
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Recruiting big guys is great. Recruiting athletic studs is better.
Which is why it probably isn't a big deal to recruit the east coast hard...leave the stiff white guys to UW and we can expand our recruiting into other areas with more talent...NY, Philly, TX, etc.
I really don't think this is a bad play. We landed Maymon and balanced out our 09 class rather well.
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NYWarrior---Tripling down on an out of stater would be foolish. But, I believe we need to secure the borders and work out from that. If and when a top 20 kid is from WI we should want to get him. Letting another one get away would be a mistake.
First, he is not top 20.
Second, the "securing the borders" issue is really a lame one. Using that logic, as I believe you did earlier this year, we would have offered Johnny Lacy. Instead we got Junior Cadougan who seems to be the much better basketball player and much better student. If you get obsessed with "securing the borders," you end up focusing on players who may not be the best options available.
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Totally agree with the securing the border being a doomsday approach. UW-Madison has secured the border in BBall fro 110 years and until recently was the 2nd worst team in the history of the Big 10. maybe numbers wise they staill are. although they have been decent as of late. But for the most part they did not get there recently with Wisocnsin talent anyway. Their best players have been from illionois and elswhere.
While Wisco prep hoops has gotten better it has for decades been a virtual talent wasteland. If you secure the borders and sign the best 4 players from the state every year you will not be very good. Mu needs to pick and choose who they recruit from the state and hopefully we have good success with them. Academics are alos a big issue with most Wisoc recruits especially the ones from SE wisco.
If Mu was in Indiana, Illinois, texas or Cali, or Ny we could recruit from within and secure the borders but for the most part we dont want what is within the borders especially if it meeans you have to wait around while other viable candidates are signing with other schools. Buzz has already expreeseed frustration that he is spending an inordinate amount of time on the 2009 class and would like to be spending more time on the class of 2010. buzz seems to be taking the taking the tell me yes or tell me no cause i gotta go approach to recruitng ala AL. So far it is the best recruitng class since the 1990 class of Key, mcilvaine, etc. probably better.
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Well put. History shows high school hoops in WI turns out good offensive linemen. Once in a blue moon there's a bonafide bluechipper and we got him this year in Maymon who is the best baller from WI since Caron Butler.
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Well put. History shows high school hoops in WI turns out good offensive linemen. Once in a blue moon there's a bonafide bluechipper and we got him this year in Maymon who is the best baller from WI since Caron Butler.
I wouldn't claim that quite yet. Devin Harris is getting a lot of publicity and has been since the Nets traded Jason Kidd to get him. He's doing alright for himself when it comes to basketball. Not to mention Steve Novak and Travis Diener are making some dollars. I'd be very happy if Maymon ends up in the same place as Diener, Novak, and Harris. Jerry Smith could also get there.
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Well put. History shows high school hoops in WI turns out good offensive linemen. Once in a blue moon there's a bonafide bluechipper and we got him this year in Maymon who is the best baller from WI since Caron Butler.
Many people get the "securing the borders" logic from the Wisconsin football program, which for years would get its best players poached by Iowa, Michigan, etc. Barry Alvarez talked about securing the borders more as a matter of pride more than anything else. And while this state produces a good amount of linemen and effort type walk-ons, he knew that by and large you had to go out of state to get talent.
For Marquette, basketball should be different. We will never be the most popular program in the state. We have to cast a wider net or else we will be left with a sub-standard line-up. I don't think the state has put together a complete class like Logtermann, Key and McIlvaine since that time - and remember at that time, Wisconsin was dealing with Steve Yoder who was a terrible recruiter.
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agreed and in response to the poster that mentioned Novak, diener, etc. You basically named one player from a particualr year and you named 4-5 guys from the last 10 years! Typically recruitng class is 3-4. If you look at the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th best players from those years you would be staring at abunch of kids that went to Uw-Stout and the like or went to UW-Madison and did nothing. Wisco puts out 1 high major player a year at best, some years none. This year it has 2 which is a bumper crop for Wisco. A state like Illinois will put out 5-10 a year. A state like indiana will have some down years but for the most part will be in the 4-8 range, producing kids like Deonta Vaughn who get completely overshadowed by the likes OF a dominic james, Luke zeller ( granted a bust), and Josh Mcroberts in a given year.
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I'm not going to say that WI is a basketball hotbed by any means but Mr. Hayward's assertion that in most years WI produces 1 or zero high major college players is just not true.
Now we can debate on how good some of the high major players turn out to be but in every year since 2004 WI has produced 2 or more players who signed with major colleges.
2004 Weaver, Flowers, Steimsma, and Dave Bliss
2005 Landry and Matthews
2006 Jerry Smith, Hughes, Gavinski, and Mitchell Carter
2007 Nankivil, Garrett, Jarmusz, Chistopherson, and Buycks
2008 Lucious and Mitchell
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Gymbar, how did he blow it?
Pretty obvious, isn't it?
He could have spoken up and been a member of this MU recruiting class and playing in the BE! His age has nothing to do with it. And you are correct, he has the right to wait until the spring and he also has the right, which he exercised, to not be part of this class and not be playing in the BE. To my mind that is blowing it.
We may not be Texas, which I surmise is still on his short list. but we're also not a Texas-Arlington who has to wait around to see if Mr. Wilson will favor us with a glance.
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Look, I loved Travis and Stevie, but I think Al had the best recuiting methods. He would grab some local kids to keep the alumni happy, but he knew the best players were going to come from outside the state. Realistically, if you took the four best players from WI every year so that by your fourth year you had an all-Wisconsin roster, where would you finish in the BE? I'd guess 10th.
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When I say secure the border my point is simple. The year that we have top tier D1 players we try 110% to get them. Sure Al was unreal recruiter but the game has changed way too much. Our inner city and remainder of the state has produced a slew of great players.
I, like most of you, have watched MU ball for over almost forty years. I do believe MU can be the #1 team in WI and I believe MU should be at level that we get the local kids we want.
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Look, I loved Travis and Stevie, but I think Al had the best recuiting methods. He would grab some local kids to keep the alumni happy, but he knew the best players were going to come from outside the state. Realistically, if you took the four best players from WI every year so that by your fourth year you had an all-Wisconsin roster, where would you finish in the BE? I'd guess 10th.
I'm not bringing up Novak, Diener, etc. to show we should get all of the local players, I was just saying that we shouldn't quite name Maymon the best player out of Wisconsin since Caron Butler quite yet. He hasn't even played a college game yet and recently there have been people from Wisconsin who have gone to the NBA and another one (in Jerry Smith) who most likely will be there before Maymon gets his chance. I'm just saying that if players like Dominic James, who has done a TON for this program and is clearly very talented, are being talked about as a late 2nd round pick after his senior year, it clearly takes quite a good college career to make it into the NBA. If Maymon does as much as DJ has done I will be very happy, and DJ might not even make it into the league, whereas other players from Wisconsin have and will soon since Caron Butler, so I wouldn't label him the best since then quite yet.
About "securing the boarders," if Buzz can get the 5-15 ranked player from Texas vs. the 2nd ranked player from Wisconsin, PLEASE get the 5-15th ranked player from Texas (unless Wisconsin has an exceptional year).
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Regardless of where Wilson ends up he will be more successful player than Maymon and I love Maymon. Wilson is a rare talent. 9 out of 10 times pure talent wins out.
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Wilson is not a rare talent. Wilson is a rare athlete. At this point, Maymon is the known quantity and better talent. As is Erik Williams.
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I'm not bringing up Novak, Diener, etc. to show we should get all of the local players, I was just saying that we shouldn't quite name Maymon the best player out of Wisconsin since Caron Butler quite yet. He hasn't even played a college game yet and recently there have been people from Wisconsin who have gone to the NBA and another one (in Jerry Smith) who most likely will be there before Maymon gets his chance. I'm just saying that if players like Dominic James, who has done a TON for this program and is clearly very talented, are being talked about as a late 2nd round pick after his senior year, it clearly takes quite a good college career to make it into the NBA. If Maymon does as much as DJ has done I will be very happy, and DJ might not even make it into the league, whereas other players from Wisconsin have and will soon since Caron Butler, so I wouldn't label him the best since then quite yet.
About "securing the boarders," if Buzz can get the 5-15 ranked player from Texas vs. the 2nd ranked player from Wisconsin, PLEASE get the 5-15th ranked player from Texas (unless Wisconsin has an exceptional year).
I agree with your general premise regardging Maymon -- and the whole bit about securing borders is nonsense - but Jerry Smith in the NBA???? Not so sure the League is looking for 6-foot-1 shooting guards who, well, aren't really great shooters. Smith, given his skill set, might not make the league if he were 6-foot-4. At 6-foot-1, I give him almost no chance.
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Regardless of where Wilson ends up he will be more successful player than Maymon and I love Maymon. Wilson is a rare talent. 9 out of 10 times pure talent wins out.
A rare talent?
What are you, his agent?
LeBron James and Kobe Bryant are rare talents.
Jamil Wilson is a good high school basketball player.
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Gymbar, I would suggest before you make one more comment that you go down to your local HS and ask the hoops coach about Wilson vs Maymon.
Maymon was the Player of the Year as a Junior (over Wilson, MSU's Luscious and SLU's Mitchell) for a reason. He is a real deal Basketball player.
Coaches I talk to LOVE him. You can only utilize so many wings, we have 2 very good ones in this class. Two that are better than Wilson.
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Damon----I said I love Maymon. Winning state helps in player of the year. No going to argue if Wilson is a great player or not.
I remember being on here five months ago touting how badly we need Maymon at 90% of the posts told me I was wrong. He was a bad kid, his Dad a freak and a poor student I was told. Funny how things change.
Jamil Wilson is a top tier D1 player. Maymon has a great chance to be a stud. Wilson is a type of athlete any school that wants to win wants to have.
To all the Maymon bandwagon jumpers...re-read posts from the spring. I wanted him for the same reason I want Wilson. HE CAN PLAY FRICKIN BALL AT A HIGH LEVEL AND THEY ARE LOCAL KIDS!!!!!!
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Agreed DK-
I've seen each play a few times, not once was I blown away by Wilson. Maymon on the other hand is a player, and was much more mentally tough than Wilson.
HS players develop at different rates, and Wilson peaked early. Not to say he can't become a great player, but as of now I'd take Maymon hands down.
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maymon did not win state.
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I personally think the whole securing the state's best players is stupid. Sure we should try to land the best players in state, but I think that the focus should be on finding the best players, period. If we have the option of landing the best player in Wisconsin who is the 100th best player in the nation or landing the 5th best player in Texas who is the 70th best player in the nation, we should take the player from Texas every time.
Also, I think there is definitely something to be said about getting a well rounded class. From everything I've read about Wilson, he was a nice player, but we already had two players in the same position in the class. And when we get the opportunity to land a good post player, we have to take it so we don't end up relying on players like the Grimm Reaper, Jamil Lott, and Marcus Jackson to be our post presence.
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Ok, why don't you put forth some concrete perdictions about how great this 'rare talent' will be. based on what you are saying I'd be disappointed with a 18 and 8 season, followed by a lottery pick that wasn't top 5, followed by a 5-8 time allstar career in the nba. That is his minimum right? He's just that good, right?
He's a good player who plays the same position as other good players we already have. We want a team that is rounded out, if wisconsin produces 3 pg's in 2011 will you want them all as well?
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And when we get the opportunity to land a good post player, we have to take it so we don't end up relying on players like the Grimm Reaper, Jamil Lott, and Marcus Jackson to be our post presence.
Marcus Jackson was a legitimate post presence. I am NOT saying he was great or anything close, but we would have been Sweet 16 last year with Marcus.
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You guys win. But, when Wilson signs with MU remember your comments. The anti-Wilson talk is almost as high as the anti-Maymon talk was in the spring. Few on here wanted to Maymon in the spring. Feelings were so anti-Maymon that the moderator said to stop bashing a kid and his Dad.
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i don't think people are spouting off anti-wilson talk. people are stating facts.
fact #1: Wilson is a very good basketball player with good athleticism and potential.
fact #2: however, by most recruiting services, and first hand accounts, maymon is a better player right now.
fact #3: correspondingly, over the past year, Wilson's ranking has dropped across the board, while Maymon's has risen across the board.
fact #4: we already have 2 committed players of better or comparable abilty that play the same position as Wilson.
fact #5: signing roseboro balances out the 2009 class, and our roster as a whole, better than signing Wilson.
If we go on to sign Wilson, I don't think anyone will be saying that it is a "bad signing." However, based on those already committed and the make-up of our roster, most will say that they would have preferred we add a SG.
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so gym are you now saying Wilson will sign with MU?
ANd I have to agree witht he others the very fact that Wilson is a Top 100 would make every one of us happy to have him, I guess the point tho is that we are not so devasted due to the fact that we already have two commits that play the same position that depending on the service are rated more highly.
For example I would be also disappointed if we sign colvin. As everything I have read says he is a PG, and we need an Sg as the PG is already covered by Junior.
PS. with colvins size he could play the SG just not sure what his kills off the ball are if he can drive or if he can shoot or if he is purely a pass first type PG.
Now in Wright I know he can fill it up.
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Dwade---Good points. But, I'll take a team with four DWade's anyday. Easier to figure out how to play talent then figuring out how to play without talent. Ask Dukiet and Deanne.
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Dwade---Good points. But, I'll take a team with four DWade's anyday. Easier to figure out how to play talent then figuring out how to play without talent. Ask Dukiet and Deanne.
I'm not sure it's a situation where the coaches didn't want Wilson, I think it's more the fact that they cannot wait around and come home with empty pockets.
In Buzz's mind, it was better to sign a kid with some upside rather than wait for Wilson and potentially get nothing.
So, I'll go on record and say that Wilson is a hell of a player that could help MU. But, I'll also go on record that taking a commitment now might be better than waiting a taking a risk on whether Wilson chooses MU or not.
Does that make sense?
Definitely not anti-Wilson, just trying to understand the coaching staff's thought process.
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Dwade---Good points. But, I'll take a team with four DWade's anyday. Easier to figure out how to play talent then figuring out how to play without talent. Ask Dukiet and Deanne.
At 1: Dwade > James
At 2: Dwade > McSteal
At 3: Dwade > Wes
At 4: Dwade > Lazar
Yeah, i'd like that team as well. Dont think it has anything to do with Wilson though. 2002 hit it on the head.
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I wouldn't claim that quite yet. Devin Harris is getting a lot of publicity and has been since the Nets traded Jason Kidd to get him. He's doing alright for himself when it comes to basketball. Not to mention Steve Novak and Travis Diener are making some dollars. I'd be very happy if Maymon ends up in the same place as Diener, Novak, and Harris. Jerry Smith could also get there.
Actually I will take Mark Millers words, an expert in Wisconsin high school basketball, in that Maymon might be the best Wisconsin high school player in the last 20 plus years.
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Dwade---Good points. But, I'll take a team with four DWade's anyday. Easier to figure out how to play talent then figuring out how to play without talent. Ask Dukiet and Deanne.
I have to disagree with you there. This is a team game. I will gladly take a little bit less talent and five guys who complement each other than 5 better players who have all the same skill set and same weaknesses.
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Actually I will take Mark Millers words, an expert in Wisconsin high school basketball, in that Maymon might be the best Wisconsin high school player in the last 20 plus years.
Please clarify:
Are you thinking Maymon will have the greatest high school career of anyone over the last 20 years? Or, are you saying Maymon will be the greatest basketball player to come out of a WI high school in the last 20 years?
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At 1: Dwade > James
At 2: Dwade > McSteal
At 3: Dwade > Wes
At 4: Dwade > Lazar
Yeah, i'd like that team as well. Dont think it has anything to do with Wilson though. 2002 hit it on the head.
Yea but as a team, James, McSteal and Wes would create a ton of Wade turnovers and not have to guard the three point line. Lets not forget that as great as Wade was in college, he was still very turnover prone and was not able to hit a 3 point shot consistently.
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Please clarify:
Are you thinking Maymon will have the greatest high school career of anyone over the last 20 years? Or, are you saying Maymon will be the greatest basketball player to come out of a WI high school in the last 20 years?
Mark Miller said greatest high school basketball player but go to Dodds board and listen to his exact comments.
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Yea but as a team, James, McSteal and Wes would create a ton of Wade turnovers and not have to guard the three point line. Lets not forget that as great as Wade was in college, he was still very turnover prone and was not able to hit a 3 point shot consistently.
And the big three are dead eyes from long range and not turnover prone? I'm not saying you don't have a point but it woudln't matter. They would get killed on the boards(check wades rebounds), they wouldn't be able to get a shot off clean(check blocks), they would be striped every other time down the court and they wouldn't be able to drive the lane(check steals). I feel silly for having to make this arguement.
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2002---My point is this is a year we could wait and see. No need to rush to sign anyone other than a stud. I would have, and I believe Buzz still is, waiting to hear Wilson's final decision. My gut says that if Wilson calls Buzz the offer is still on the table.
Kids and coaches are fickle. Buzz might just be playing hardball with the kid. Before anyone says we are out of scholies...there is no such thing in today's game. We will have 2-3 kids we can chase off if need be at semester or after the season.
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I feel silly for having to make this arguement.
Same here as you clearly haven't coached a basketball team.
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The "four Wades" argument is reminiscent of the "Da Bears" guys on SNL for a variety of reasons.
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I personally think the whole securing the state's best players is stupid. Sure we should try to land the best players in state, but I think that the focus should be on finding the best players, period. If we have the option of landing the best player in Wisconsin who is the 100th best player in the nation or landing the 5th best player in Texas who is the 70th best player in the nation, we should take the player from Texas every time.
The argument about "securing the border" is awkward, to say the least, unless one considers that college basketball is more than winning games. It is about making money, too. (Or is it about making money first?) In any case, securing the border is about getting WI college b-ball fans in general, or fans of a particular player or school, to be fans of MU. The more WI players that go to MU the more attention MU gets on the ground in WI. That's not a bad thing, and probably something to aim for, as fans that live closer to the arena are more likely to fill seats, buy t-shirts, send their kids to college there, and on and on.
That said, it only works if the team is winning. A bad team is--marketing-wise--only going to be buoyed by local talent for so long.
I personally don't see the need for Wilson on either "front" as we'll have the top statewide talent Maymon and we already has his position covered. Sure, it would be nice to have another top 100 player. But we're looking good for the moment. Plus, we're out of scholarships, right?
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Same here as you clearly haven't coached a basketball team.
wow, what a comeback. Clearly you haven't watched what happens to marquette when we go against 1's and 2's who we can't "out athletic". People talk about getting torn up by bigs and it happens on occasion but when our 1/2 can't drive on the opposing guard we can't score. And that's when we get blown out. All you said was that the big three would cause turnovers. You really think that would be enough to win a game, they would be dominated phisically every position. 4wades would put up more highlight reel dunks than our 2008 squad would manage layups. But I guess you know all about that because clearly you've coached against wade like talent when running your girls 7th grade team. Why did your post only cover what would happen on one half the court. Doesn't sound like a good philosophy for someone who is such a seasoned vet of the game.
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The "four Wades" argument is reminiscent of the "Da Bears" guys on SNL for a variety of reasons.
If MU were to enter a bus in da Indy 500, it would win so long as one Wade was drivin' da bus and da udder tree Wades were da pit crew.
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Da question is: Now, did God create Marquette, and make them superior to all teams? Or is he simply a huge fan, and DWade made them superior to all other teams?
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2002---My point is this is a year we could wait and see. No need to rush to sign anyone other than a stud. I would have, and I believe Buzz still is, waiting to hear Wilson's final decision. My gut says that if Wilson calls Buzz the offer is still on the table.
Kids and coaches are fickle. Buzz might just be playing hardball with the kid. Before anyone says we are out of scholies...there is no such thing in today's game. We will have 2-3 kids we can chase off if need be at semester or after the season.
Hmmm...
Wilson may end up being a very good player. No doubt about it.
However (and again, this is just personal speculation), it appears like Buzz was not willing to gamble on a "wait and see" game with Wilson.
(More speculation) Buzz may have felt that he had a pretty good stock of wing players, so waiting for another one might not be the smartest gamble. Signing a bigger guy who could develop might not be the glamorous play, but its probably the smart one.
I don't blame Buzz. I don't blame Wilson. It's just the situation they are both in. Wilson wanted to wait, Buzz didn't feel comfortable waiting.
You can make all of the statements you want about Wilson's talent (I will not dispute those because I have not seen him play in person).
The fact remains that had Wilson wanted to play at MU, he would have verbally committed and Buzz would have created some room for him. MU waited for a while. Wilson chose not to commit, so MU moved on.
If something changes and Wilson decides he wants to come to MU, then maybe he and Buzz can work something out. However, I would not hold my breath on that.
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I think it is pretty clear that Buzz is sending the message out on the trail: "I want kids who want to be here".
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wow, what a comeback. Clearly you haven't watched what happens to marquette when we go against 1's and 2's who we can't "out athletic". People talk about getting torn up by bigs and it happens on occasion but when our 1/2 can't drive on the opposing guard we can't score. And that's when we get blown out. All you said was that the big three would cause turnovers. You really think that would be enough to win a game, they would be dominated phisically every position. 4wades would put up more highlight reel dunks than our 2008 squad would manage layups. But I guess you know all about that because clearly you've coached against wade like talent when running your girls 7th grade team. Why did your post only cover what would happen on one half the court. Doesn't sound like a good philosophy for someone who is such a seasoned vet of the game.
Wow you have anger management problems dude. Hard to win games if you dont have a very good ball handler. Hard to win games if you don't have good perimeter shooter. Hard to win games if you don't rebound. Its hard to win if you don't play defense. Wade was great but had weaknesses. A team with 5 players with complimentary skills will beat a team with 5 players with redundant skills and weaknesses. A good coach exploits that fairly easily. Otherwise the team with the most talent would always win and that doesn't always happen. Its basketball 101. Dwades handle was very sloppy for much of his time at MU. Same with McNeal but I would take DJ's ballhandling skills over DWade. I would take Haywards three point shooting and rebounding over Dwades. See they compliment each others strengths and weaknesses.
And by the way, its easier to dominate games with exceptional talent at a younger age than as they get progressively older. The fact that you try to make a dig at me about running a 7th grade girls team actually proves my point about your lack of basketball knowledge when it comes to coaching a team and makes you look very silly but I guess you can believe whatever you want as apparently you know it all when it comes to basketball.
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Some where it was posted that Wilson was going to commit in the early signing period. I think he changed it to his birthday, which by memory is November 9th. He is no longer going to wait to spring. If he was waiting to spring Buzz could continue to recruit him. I think Buzz is trying to put together a complete team. What this class lacks is a good three point shooter. Snaer would be the perfect fit. The other guards on the list are good, but not in his class. Dropping the recruiting of Wilson prevents him from committing to MU, before Snaer makes up his mind.
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The argument about "securing the border" is awkward, to say the least, unless one considers that college basketball is more than winning games. It is about making money, too. (Or is it about making money first?) In any case, securing the border is about getting WI college b-ball fans in general, or fans of a particular player or school, to be fans of MU. The more WI players that go to MU the more attention MU gets on the ground in WI. That's not a bad thing, and probably something to aim for, as fans that live closer to the arena are more likely to fill seats, buy t-shirts, send their kids to college there, and on and on.
MU will get more fans by winning period. It is irrelevent if the team is made up of a kid from Racine Horlick or a kid from Hawaii.
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MU will get more fans by winning period. It is irrelevent if the team is made up of a kid from Racine Horlick or a kid from Hawaii.
In Milwaukee, or southeastern Wisconsin winning matters more than where the team is from. But not in the rest of the state. Having Wisconsin kids on the team is very important to a lot of people that might become MU fans in the Northern and Western parts of the state. MU suffers from being in Milwaukee, a part of the state most people would rather forget about. MU suffers from being an urban university, something a lot of people look down on. MU suffers because it is seen as a school that only the rich can afford, and is viewed as being full of elitist little rich kids from out of state. Winning won't change any of those issues. Putting a kid on the team from Clintonville or Hayward or Chippewa Falls might.
Look at Madison. It's the state university, but it gets a big boost from having a lot of Wisconsin kids on the team. Bo Ryan would not be viewed as the god many people think he is if that team had a bunch of kids from Chicago, Houston, New York, Indianapolis etc. But fill the team with kids from Appleton, Randolph, Madison, Wisconsin Dells, Reedsburg, Blue Mound etc and suddenely he's one of the greatest coaches in the history of basketball.
I'm not saying you sacrifice winning just to put more Wisconsin kids on the team, not at all. But you have to be willing to accept that you won't be as popular without those kind of kids on your team.
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In Milwaukee, or southeastern Wisconsin winning matters more than where the team is from. But not in the rest of the state. Having Wisconsin kids on the team is very important to a lot of people that might become MU fans in the Northern and Western parts of the state. MU suffers from being in Milwaukee, a part of the state most people would rather forget about. MU suffers from being an urban university, something a lot of people look down on. MU suffers because it is seen as a school that only the rich can afford, and is viewed as being full of elitist little rich kids from out of state. Winning won't change any of those issues. Putting a kid on the team from Clintonville or Hayward or Chippewa Falls might.
Look at Madison. It's the state university, but it gets a big boost from having a lot of Wisconsin kids on the team. Bo Ryan would not be viewed as the god many people think he is if that team had a bunch of kids from Chicago, Houston, New York, Indianapolis etc. But fill the team with kids from Appleton, Randolph, Madison, Wisconsin Dells, Reedsburg, Blue Mound etc and suddenely he's one of the greatest coaches in the history of basketball.
I'm not saying you sacrifice winning just to put more Wisconsin kids on the team, not at all. But you have to be willing to accept that you won't be as popular without those kind of kids on your team.
And we care about being popular, why? Face it, we will ALWAYS be ALL the things you listed to the Wisconsin faithful.
Let them be a good Big10 team, while we strive to win the BEast. Let Bo continue to get his clock cleaned by lower seeds.
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Clearly this recruit means something to the program or there would be a million posts on him over the past months. This is a kid we all should want in this program, period. If he goes elsewhere we still had a great recruiting season. If he comes it makes the best recruiting class since Al was here.
I have my fingers crossed that he calls Buzz and says I want to play ball at MU. This signing would be a big signing, both locally and nationally. KO worked area hard and every home game had the local players at them. That is best recruiting tool possible.
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I always thought Milwaukee was the "big city" all those country folks were seeking. Its a big country and we're building fans all over it.....and that's what we need to do, not merely appease the people of wisconsin. We are building a program and much like an employer we will strive to get the best talent than we can get wherever we can get it; not settle for local talent. Wilson has most likely reached his peak in development and while he is still a good player he doesn't fit our current needs. Best of luck to him where ever he ends up.
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And we care about being popular, why? Face it, we will ALWAYS be ALL the things you listed to the Wisconsin faithful.
Let them be a good Big10 team, while we strive to win the BEast. Let Bo continue to get his clock cleaned by lower seeds.
Because the popularity helps in multiple areas. It helps Buzz or any other coach go into some town in the northern part of the state and get a big time recruit like Brian Butch or Greg Steimsma or Keaton Nankivil. Say what you want about them being big white stiffs, but MU would have won a ton more games the last few years with any of those guys on the team.
Popularity helps in merchandising, in getting people to come in from other parts of the state to catch a game, in getting people to send their kids to one of Buzz's camps etc.
I can remember when KO was coach there were a ton of kids from outside Milwaukee that used to come to his camps because they wanted to be like Jim McIlvaine and Robb Logtermann and Craig Aamot etc. It means something to a heck of a lot of people to have someone they can relate to on the team.
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Because the popularity helps in multiple areas. It helps Buzz or any other coach go into some town in the northern part of the state and get a big time recruit like Brian Butch or Greg Steimsma or Keaton Nankivil. Say what you want about them being big white stiffs, but MU would have won a ton more games the last few years with any of those guys on the team.
Popularity helps in merchandising, in getting people to come in from other parts of the state to catch a game, in getting people to send their kids to one of Buzz's camps etc.
I can remember when KO was coach there were a ton of kids from outside Milwaukee that used to come to his camps because they wanted to be like Jim McIlvaine and Robb Logtermann and Craig Aamot etc. It means something to a heck of a lot of people to have someone they can relate to on the team.
Agree 100%.
Also keep in mind that recruiting in your own backyard can limit homesick transfers or a kid saying something like "MU just isn't for me".
I'm not saying it will eliminate transfers, but recruiting locally will increase the odds of a kid sticking with the program for all 4 years.
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In Milwaukee, or southeastern Wisconsin winning matters more than where the team is from. But not in the rest of the state. Having Wisconsin kids on the team is very important to a lot of people that might become MU fans in the Northern and Western parts of the state. MU suffers from being in Milwaukee, a part of the state most people would rather forget about. MU suffers from being an urban university, something a lot of people look down on. MU suffers because it is seen as a school that only the rich can afford, and is viewed as being full of elitist little rich kids from out of state. Winning won't change any of those issues. Putting a kid on the team from Clintonville or Hayward or Chippewa Falls might.
Look at Madison. It's the state university, but it gets a big boost from having a lot of Wisconsin kids on the team. Bo Ryan would not be viewed as the god many people think he is if that team had a bunch of kids from Chicago, Houston, New York, Indianapolis etc. But fill the team with kids from Appleton, Randolph, Madison, Wisconsin Dells, Reedsburg, Blue Mound etc and suddenely he's one of the greatest coaches in the history of basketball.
I'm not saying you sacrifice winning just to put more Wisconsin kids on the team, not at all. But you have to be willing to accept that you won't be as popular without those kind of kids on your team.
I have lived most my life in Wisconsin outside the city of Milwaukee, and I hate to break it to you, but there is *no* interest in Marquette basketball outside of the pockets of alumni that live in these burghs. I live in Fort Atkinson, and I guess if there was a guy from the local high school who made it to Marquette, the locals would follow...but when he graduated they'd go right back to red and white. I caught the MU/UW game in a local bar with a bunch of friends last year, and I was the *only* one there out of a few dozen who was rooting for the beloved alma mater. Getting Jamil Wilson on the team won't change that one bit.
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Hard to win games if you don't rebound. Its hard to win if you don't play defense. Wade was great but had weaknesses.
Wade wasn't a good defender? Are we talking about the same person. top ten all time single season in blocks and steals?
Good job not answering the question though, How would you score? Which has been my entire point. Wade would out rebound you at 3 of 4 positions. And would play better D at 4 out of 4. And James has proven that he is useless against teams with big 1's who are athletic enough to stay with him. You would end up relying completely on circus shots and Lazar, who i love and is really your only advantage. I will agree that 3 wades and a true PF would be better than 4 wades but no way does lazar make up for the fact that wes, dj, and jm would be doninated.
And here, i'll put a smilie face since you apperently think that anyone who disagrees with you is angry and thinks they know everything. :)
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I have lived most my life in Wisconsin outside the city of Milwaukee, and I hate to break it to you, but there is *no* interest in Marquette basketball outside of the pockets of alumni that live in these burghs. I live in Fort Atkinson, and I guess if there was a guy from the local high school who made it to Marquette, the locals would follow...but when he graduated they'd go right back to red and white. I caught the MU/UW game in a local bar with a bunch of friends last year, and I was the *only* one there out of a few dozen who was rooting for the beloved alma mater. Getting Jamil Wilson on the team won't change that one bit.
In the old days, it wasn't like that because the old MU teams had a bunch of Wisconsin kids. They may not have been the stars, or even big time players, but they were there. Part of that had to do with Wisconsin being terrible, but there were areas that began following the school because a hometown kid went there, and stayed with it after he left because they became fans of the school. Antigo for example had a lot of MU fans because Terrell Schlundt was on the team 25+ years ago, and to this day many still follow MU because that's where the local hero went. There's actually a bus load of people that come down to at least one MU game a year just to root on Terrell's old team, even though they have no connection to the University on their own.
Not saying it will happen like that everywhere, but it can.
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Well, that's nice and all, but I would rather have Buzz recruit the best players he think will help us win instead of trying to capture the vast, untapped market of Antigo.
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Antigo?!?!----Home of sweet shooting Terrell Schlundt
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Well, that's nice and all, but I would rather have Buzz recruit the best players he think will help us win instead of trying to capture the vast, untapped market of Antigo.
That's what I said in a previous reply. Winning is most important, but if you have two kids you feel are equally talented, one from Texas and one from Wisconsin, I'd take the one from Wisconsin as it helps in other areas.
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We will never be the State of Wisconsin's team. We do not have football and we do not have the rivalries that Wisconsin have. The average Wisconsin resident wants to beat the other Big Ten schools that have been rivals for 100+ years. They do not care about Rutgers, Seton Hall, South Florida, St. John's, Providence, DePaul and Cincinatti. They are aware of the success of Uconn, Louisville, Syracuse, Georgetwon, Pitt, Villanova, and West Virgina, but generally do not care one way or another about them. Notre Dame is probably the only Big East opponent that the average Wisconsin resident cares about. Given that do not expect us to be Wisconsin's team. We need to recruit everywhere and recruit a balanced team. By the way Wade is a superstar. I am quite sure that Wilson will never compare to him, so the argument about how good a team would be with 4 Wade's is irrelevant.
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We will never be the State of Wisconsin's team. We do not have football and we do not have the rivalries that Wisconsin have. The average Wisconsin resident wants to beat the other Big Ten schools that have been rivals for 100+ years. They do not care about Rutgers, Seton Hall, South Florida, St. John's, Providence, DePaul and Cincinatti. They are aware of the success of Uconn, Louisville, Syracuse, Georgetwon, Pitt, Villanova, and West Virgina, but generally do not care one way or another about them. Notre Dame is probably the only Big East opponent that the average Wisconsin resident cares about. Given that do not expect us to be Wisconsin's team. We need to recruit everywhere and recruit a balanced team. By the way Wade is a superstar. I am quite sure that Wilson will never compare to him, so the argument about how good a team would be with 4 Wade's is irrelevant.
Could not have said it any better
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Being from out of state I couldn't care less whether we are Wisconsin's team. We could recruit all state kids and go deep into the tournament and the Urinal Sentinel would still give more coverage to a Badgers win at Penn State. I can tell you that outside the state MU gets a lot more respect than the Badgers ever will. We play in markets -- New York, Philly, Washington, Louisville, Pittsburgh -- where people could care less about Big Ten basketball. I'd love for Jamil Wilson to say he wants to play for the best team in the state against the best talent in college basketball. But if he doesn't, we'll survive.
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Wade wasn't a good defender? Are we talking about the same person. top ten all time single season in blocks and steals?
Good job not answering the question though, How would you score? Which has been my entire point. Wade would out rebound you at 3 of 4 positions. And would play better D at 4 out of 4. And James has proven that he is useless against teams with big 1's who are athletic enough to stay with him. You would end up relying completely on circus shots and Lazar, who i love and is really your only advantage. I will agree that 3 wades and a true PF would be better than 4 wades but no way does lazar make up for the fact that wes, dj, and jm would be doninated.
And here, i'll put a smilie face since you apperently think that anyone who disagrees with you is angry and thinks they know everything. :)
Who said Wade wasn't a good defender? The point is there are a lot of factors involved to being a very good team. For as great as Wade was, he was not perfect. And to replicate the same person at all five positions magnifies your weaknesses. Also, you seem to dismiss McNeal and DJs defensive abilities when you should know that they are very very good. How do they score? How does Wade score. WHile DJ does struggle to score against bigger opponents, he is still a way better ball handler than Wade and would be able to get the ball upcourt easier than the other way around. Than how does a 6'3" player defend a 6'9" player in the post? Perimeter shooting? Wade was a shade above .300 and only made 14 or so 3 point shots his jr year. Wade is a great player but basketball is a team sport. Blending together different abilities, i.e. strengths and weaknesses, go long way towards team success. If that wasn't the case than all of the coaches would be recruiting a roster full of athletic 6'3" players who could defend great but not be able to stretch a defense or score off of the low post. So back to the original arguement, MU is better off with a team that has multiple different skill sets instead of a lot of the same skill sets in overabundance. Wilson was not a primary need. A legit 4 or a legit 2 guard is a primary need. A 2 to stretch the defense and 4 to defend and bring out the opponents 4 from the lane for our athletic slashers. Now that is a team concept that can get you very far in the tourny.
Also for anyone who wants to know how close we really were to getting Jamil, I highly suggest paying the small fee to Dodds and reading about it on the premium board.
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I wouldn't be so sure that we stopped recruiting Wilson. Might have something to do with the Snaer decision. I don't know anything about the source on this one but this was posted today:
9:57 a.m. Marquette, Michigan State, Oregon or Texas for Jamil Wilson. Word is he’s leaning toward signing tomorrow. In our minds, Michigan State was the long time behind the scenes leader but will they be able to sign him? Whispers began over the weekend – while he was on his visit to Oregon – about Marquette. Stay tuned. (DT)
http://kansas.scout.com/a.z?s=172&p=2&c=810479 (http://kansas.scout.com/a.z?s=172&p=2&c=810479)
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It also says Florida State the leader for Snaer. Hopefully this will all be over tommorow, and get ready for this season.
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He is a Warrior by week's end. Sticking to my past posts!!!!!
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Does Mark Miller have have any updates on this situation? I think it is hard to rely on a national service (scout or rivals) saying there are whispers Marquette is still involved rather than a local expert. I am curious to see what happens over the next week or so with all these recruits.
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k
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no one has ever doubted that Wilson doesn't have potential. His freshman year many recruiters saw his potential and put him very, very high on lists but his inability to reach lofty expectations early has left many people weary on him. Mark Miller has metioned that while Maymon is the best prospect right now, Wilson has a better upside in the long run.
With this thought I think a little bit of Wilson's stunted growth as a basketball player has come from him not being completely focused on basketball for the entire year. While most top 100 recruits focus completely on basketball he is playing volleyball for a good 3-4 months out of the year. In no way I am saying that is bad but I think that he may reach his "potential" once he gets to college and focuses on basketball 24/7. IMO I believe that by his Junior year Jamil Wilson may show his potential and skills that have been raw up to this point. If he obtain that potential at the shooting guard - like Mark Miller said he would play in college - with the height of 6'6" WATCH OUT, he very well could be considered for a All Big East team.
If Wilson signs with Marquette, and that still is an if, I definitely see a good possibility of him becoming the player we all dreamed he would be for the blue and gold and leading our team to a Final Four run. In 2010-2011 we will have a potential starting lineup of junior cadougan 6'1" (Jr), jamil wilson 6'6" (Jr), jeromme maymon 6'7" (Jr), chris otule 6'10" (Sr), and liam mcmorrow 7'0" (Sr) with erik williams 6'7" (Jr) and brett roseboro 6'10" (Jr) coming off the bench with other younger players hopefully including a young three point specialist. Obviously there may be changes as that is three years off but with the experience, height, athleticism, and potential that that team may possess I am seeing a reoccurring picture in the crystal ball: FINAL FOUR
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Blueandgold---You are talking my kind of talk. This kid has unlimited potential. Combine him with the current recruiting class for next year you are looking at FinalFour class. In my opinion, Wilsom will be a top tier college player.
I have my fingers crossed, but I must admit I have a great feeling about this.
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So,
With the recent hurricane of activity involving Snaer and Wilson, When is Wilson scheduled to make a decision? Has it been confirmed that he'll commit during the early signing period like Snaer?
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Last week Wilson was not a good fit. This week? What changed?
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no one has ever doubted that Wilson doesn't have potential. His freshman year many recruiters saw his potential and put him very, very high on lists but his inability to reach lofty expectations early has left many people weary on him. Mark Miller has metioned that while Maymon is the best prospect right now, Wilson has a better upside in the long run.
With this thought I think a little bit of Wilson's stunted growth as a basketball player has come from him not being completely focused on basketball for the entire year. While most top 100 recruits focus completely on basketball he is playing volleyball for a good 3-4 months out of the year. In no way I am saying that is bad but I think that he may reach his "potential" once he gets to college and focuses on basketball 24/7. IMO I believe that by his Junior year Jamil Wilson may show his potential and skills that have been raw up to this point. If he obtain that potential at the shooting guard - like Mark Miller said he would play in college - with the height of 6'6" WATCH OUT, he very well could be considered for a All Big East team.
If Wilson signs with Marquette, and that still is an if, I definitely see a good possibility of him becoming the player we all dreamed he would be for the blue and gold and leading our team to a Final Four run. In 2010-2011 we will have a potential starting lineup of junior cadougan 6'1" (Jr), jamil wilson 6'6" (Jr), jeromme maymon 6'7" (Jr), chris otule 6'10" (Sr), and liam mcmorrow 7'0" (Sr) with erik williams 6'7" (Jr) and brett roseboro 6'10" (Jr) coming off the bench with other younger players hopefully including a young three point specialist. Obviously there may be changes as that is three years off but with the experience, height, athleticism, and potential that that team may possess I am seeing a reoccurring picture in the crystal ball: FINAL FOUR
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Blueandgold, your theory about concentrating on a specific sport sounds great but I have concerns with Jamil ever fully reaching his potential. Wes was another player who was suppossed to be the skys the limit type of kid once he gave up soccer and concentrated on basketball and that never fully materialized.
My line of thinking is that a kid either gets it or he doesn't and I don't see Jamil ever reaching his potential. He doesn't seem to have that killer instinct. I think Jamil is the ultimate tease. You salivate over the ability and the potential and you might get it in spots but it rarely materializes into what you had fully hoped it would.
Now don't get me wrong, I would be ok with Jamil but I don't think he fills a need for this team which is a 2 guard with a very good outside shot and stellar defense. Snaer is the player we need.
And if I had my choice of either Maymon or Jamil, I would take Maymon because he does get it, as he has produced year in and year out and will be the more productive player. He just has that killer mentality that wants to win and knows how to win. He is very similar to McNeal and Diener in that regard.
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no one has ever doubted that Wilson doesn't have potential. His freshman year many recruiters saw his potential and put him very, very high on lists but his inability to reach lofty expectations early has left many people weary on him. Mark Miller has metioned that while Maymon is the best prospect right now, Wilson has a better upside in the long run.
With this thought I think a little bit of Wilson's stunted growth as a basketball player has come from him not being completely focused on basketball for the entire year. While most top 100 recruits focus completely on basketball he is playing volleyball for a good 3-4 months out of the year. In no way I am saying that is bad but I think that he may reach his "potential" once he gets to college and focuses on basketball 24/7. IMO I believe that by his Junior year Jamil Wilson may show his potential and skills that have been raw up to this point. If he obtain that potential at the shooting guard - like Mark Miller said he would play in college - with the height of 6'6" WATCH OUT, he very well could be considered for a All Big East team.
If Wilson signs with Marquette, and that still is an if, I definitely see a good possibility of him becoming the player we all dreamed he would be for the blue and gold and leading our team to a Final Four run. In 2010-2011 we will have a potential starting lineup of junior cadougan 6'1" (Jr), jamil wilson 6'6" (Jr), jeromme maymon 6'7" (Jr), chris otule 6'10" (Sr), and liam mcmorrow 7'0" (Sr) with erik williams 6'7" (Jr) and brett roseboro 6'10" (Jr) coming off the bench with other younger players hopefully including a young three point specialist. Obviously there may be changes as that is three years off but with the experience, height, athleticism, and potential that that team may possess I am seeing a reoccurring picture in the crystal ball: FINAL FOUR
I agree with Mark Miller that Wilson has more upside.
Your line up has major issues. Wilson is not close to being able to play 2g in the Big East nightly. Neither is Maymon. Maybe they can get there? Honestly I don't like those odds.
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I personally would much rather have Snaer than Wilson. Snaer can shoot the three, is a true 2 Guard and fills a hole that we don't have.
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Blueandgold, your theory about concentrating on a specific sport sounds great but I have concerns with Jamil ever fully reaching his potential. Wes was another player who was suppossed to be the skys the limit type of kid once he gave up soccer and concentrated on basketball and that never fully materialized.
My line of thinking is that a kid either gets it or he doesn't and I don't see Jamil ever reaching his potential. He doesn't seem to have that killer instinct. I think Jamil is the ultimate tease. You salivate over the ability and the potential and you might get it in spots but it rarely materializes into what you had fully hoped it would.
Now don't get me wrong, I would be ok with Jamil but I don't think he fills a need for this team which is a 2 guard with a very good outside shot and stellar defense. Snaer is the player we need.
And if I had my choice of either Maymon or Jamil, I would take Maymon because he does get it, as he has produced year in and year out and will be the more productive player. He just has that killer mentality that wants to win and knows how to win. He is very similar to McNeal and Diener in that regard.
I love Wes as a player. I don't recall "sky's the limit" type expectations, but maybe they were there.
Jamil seems like a Shannon Smith or Dameon Mason type. Guys with upsides but didn't quite seem to get there. But since Jamil is only 18 years of age, he has yet to blossom.
It is strange though how Buzz called last week to say NO MAS and now he's back portentially. And oh by the way, we don't have a scholarship for him either.
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Jamil Wilson is much better than Shannon Smith or Dameon Mason.
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And oh by the way, we don't have a scholarship for him either.
Gotta hate all those little technicalities :)
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Jamil Wilson is much better than Shannon Smith or Dameon Mason.
Hopefully so, but the recruiting gurus were talking high remarks about those guys, too. I prefer to judge all of these kids after their 4 years of eligibility are done.
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Update Per Scout...
First topic of discussion is Jamil Wilson. There’s a lot of moving and shaking going on in his recruitment. A conversation with his AAU coach, Duane Wilson, leads us to believe he will definitely commit during the signing period. The schools in the mix are Oregon, Michigan State, Texas and Marquette. Oregon was his last visit. MSU has been the assumed leader for much of his recruitment. Texas is the sleeper in this ordeal, while Marquette is making a late push and is very much alive. (ED)
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No comparison between Wilson and Smith/Mason. Jamil Wilson is a far bigger talent and basketbal player than those two. I happened to love a lot about Shannon Smith, but even as a fan of his I cannot compare him to Wilson.
Lets go out and sign this guy. It will be an unbelievable recruiting class.
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highly recruited players do not always pan out.
also, stop reposting things previously said in the thread.
If you are going to post please read the whole thread before you do rather than look foolish later.