Raining 3's on Chicago State

[tower912]

Well played.

[tower912]

Watching MSU vs ND right now.    High screen and roll, MSU double teams the PG, turns him, big recovers to rolling big.    The difference is length among all players for MSU.   When the ball beat the recovering big to the rolling big, the weak side wing, who had been just outside the lane, was 6'9 and successfully contested the shot at the rim.     Size matters.   

[mu35577]

Need help from the stat guys out there... For the third straight game, a different MU player had at least 30 points (Rowsey, Hauser, Howard).

When was the last time that happened to a college team? Has it ever happened?

[Mr. Sand-Knit]

Need help from the stat guys out there... For the third straight game, a different MU player had at least 30 points (Rowsey, Hauser, Howard).

When was the last time that happened to a college team? Has it ever happened?

1969-1970 for MU

[wadesworld]

Honest question, with the personnel MU has how would MU fans like to see MU defend the pick and roll?  The point of hedging so far out is to prevent the ball handler from a straight line drive to the basket and to force the ball handler into longer passes to allow the defense more time to rotate accordingly.  The weak side, off ball defender can play off his assignment down towards the lane to rotate to the roller while also having time to recover to his man if they make the skip pass to the corner.  It also gives the hedging big more time to recover to his man rolling to the basket.

Our 2 starting guards can't stay in front of their man defensively one on one as it is.  Should we not hedge and try to see if they can not only play their man one on one, but also fight through a screen and still guard the ball handler?  Should we not hedge until the ball handler is within 3 point range, at which point the weak side defender has to sell out on the help with the rolling big and allow an easy skip pass to the corner for a wide open 3 (think Milwaukee Bucks defense)?  Should we go under high ball screens and concede an open pull up 3 and then hope Rowsey and Howard can stay in front of their guy one on one if the ball handler doesn't pull up for the open 3 point attempt?

I think with undersized guards and even wings the strategy is the best strategy for the personnel.  I'm hoping the rotations can improve and Froling simply adding height, even if he isn't a great defender, will help.  And next year I think we'll be solid with more size (Cain with more experience, Bailey, Hauser, Morrow all probably providing more of the weak side help defense rather than guys like Howard/Rowsey off the ball, Sacar, etc. this year).

[Dr. Blackheart]

Honest question, with the personnel MU has how would MU fans like to see MU defend the pick and roll?  The point of hedging so far out is to prevent the ball handler from a straight line drive to the basket and to force the ball handler into longer passes to allow the defense more time to rotate accordingly.  The weak side, off ball defender can play off his assignment down towards the lane to rotate to the roller while also having time to recover to his man if they make the skip pass to the corner.  It also gives the hedging big more time to recover to his man rolling to the basket.

Our 2 starting guards can't stay in front of their man defensively one on one as it is.  Should we not hedge and try to see if they can not only play their man one on one, but also fight through a screen and still guard the ball handler?  Should we not hedge until the ball handler is within 3 point range, at which point the weak side defender has to sell out on the help with the rolling big and allow an easy skip pass to the corner for a wide open 3 (think Milwaukee Bucks defense)?  Should we go under high ball screens and concede an open pull up 3 and then hope Rowsey and Howard can stay in front of their guy one on one if the ball handler doesn't pull up for the open 3 point attempt?

I think with undersized guards and even wings the strategy is the best strategy for the personnel.  I'm hoping the rotations can improve and Froling simply adding height, even if he isn't a great defender, will help.  And next year I think we'll be solid with more size (Cain with more experience, Bailey, Hauser, Morrow all probably providing more of the weak side help defense rather than guys like Howard/Rowsey off the ball, Sacar, etc. this year).

[Dr. Blackheart]

You defend, you rebound and you run - that's been the staple of our program,'' Izzo said. ''And if it ain't broke, don't fix it.'

[GGGG]

You can't pack line with small guards in college basketball.  They'll shoot right over you.  And it slows the pace down which isn't going to help the offense.

[Dr. Blackheart]

You can't pack line with small guards in college basketball.  They'll shoot right over you.  And it slows the pace down which isn't going to help the offense.

Good defenses are built from the baseline out, not from the half court line in. While this roster is flawed for any defensive scheme, the current scheme gives up the paint for the perimeter. It is brutal. The pack line helps/protects guards who cannot apply on ball pressure to prevent dribble drives and protects the paint for rebounds. Variations can be made to pressure the perimeter situationally.

Throwing our hands up and saying we have small guards who cannot defend on ball so let's pull all our players north of the free throw line is not a scheme built for success with this roster, IMO.

What you say about tempo and offense is true...I just think the scheme is so fundamentally flawed with this make up. That said, Elliott and Cain are better fits for this scheme so I am anxious to see how they do versus UGA with their quickness and length. I suspect UGA will have their way inside overall.  I hope to be wrong.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I get what you're saying Dr. B, but I think today's game is becoming increasingly about three point shooting,  similar to how the NBA is. I'm not sure they building defenses from the baseline out will be the norm for much longer

[GGGG]

I get what you're saying Dr. B, but I think today's game is becoming increasingly about three point shooting,  similar to how the NBA is. I'm not sure they building defenses from the baseline out will be the norm for much longer

I agree with this. 

[Dr. Blackheart]

I get what you're saying Dr. B, but I think today's game is becoming increasingly about three point shooting,  similar to how the NBA is. I'm not sure they building defenses from the baseline out will be the norm for much longer

Please provide a college team who does this successfully?  I can't think of one. Is Duke the poster child? Even Collins and Brey have moved on from K, and even K is playing zone.

I think MSU has a damn good defense this year...same with Nova. They protect the paint and extend the pressure. Won't even mention Bucky...

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Please provide a college team who does this successfully?  I can't think of one. Is Duke the poster child? Even Collins and Brey have moved on from K, and even K is playing zone.

I think MSU has a damn good defense this year...same with Nova. They protect the paint and extend the pressure. Won't even mention Bucky...

Not saying its being done now. And I honestly don't know enough about individual team defenses to know how they are constructed. I just think we are going to see college slowly becoming more and more perimeter oriented like the NBA has.

[Dr. Blackheart]

Not saying its being done now. And I honestly don't know enough about individual team defenses to know how they are constructed. I just think we are going to see college slowly becoming more and more perimeter oriented like the NBA has.

Thanks. I conceptually get it but I think until the NCAA shot clock is significantly lowered, this won't be successful. 

Obviously, this is the Duke scheme without the Duke recruits, and it needs athletic switchables. K even running from it with his young team and going to zone based on principles Jimmy B taught him in USA Basketball, I heard.

In any regard, it is with us.

[Dawson Rental]

I love the freshmen and Haani leaving gives them more opportunity to play, so that is a silver lining. However, this team without Froling is going to be punished in the Big East. Hopefully, Froling is a big difference maker.

He really needs to sign four star recruits. Five stars are nice, but they tend to leave early.
An occasional 3 star is okay, but a class of four three stars is asking for future failure.